Obscure Albums You'd Give Your Eye Teeth to Hear

[A Lark Ascending]

I don't think these have ever made it to CD.

[Pete C]

The Tate & Ibrahim is nice, but Gato is a better match. Gonsalves might have been a nice foil for Ibrahim.

[danasgoodstuff]

The Tate & Ibrahim is nice, but Gato is a better match. Gonsalves might have been a nice foil for Ibrahim.

"'I do not scream' say Gato 'for the same reasons Pharogh Sanders screams'" and then he blows the plating off it!

[fasstrack]

The 1st 2 would be: 1. Chris Anderson, The Inverted Image. Early and great Chris, and everyone here knows how I feel about his work. 2. John Collins, The Magnificent (or some other superlative). I had it on LP, now gone w/the wind. I'm sure it's a collector's item. Amazingly, it was his 1st and only leader date. John, Sweets, Alvin Queen, I forget the bassist's name-lived in D.C., they called him the Senator. It's sad how few people, esp. young hot shot guitarist know the name of this great player and class act.

[David Ayers]

Not all the albums you guys list are available, but many are findable indeed. Isn't it really that people don't want to pay collector's prices? I won't say which titles I found, but I found them within two minutes of seeing them in this thread.

[JSngry]

I have eye-teeth, shoud extreas ce neededm Dulfdefficieny onwardf!

[clifford_thornton]

Not all the albums you guys list are available, but many are findable indeed. Isn't it really that people don't want to pay collector's prices? I won't say which titles I found, but I found them within two minutes of seeing them in this thread.

Yeah, I mean, I just can't fork over a grand for an LP that's unavailable in another format. If I could I would!

And some people on this board (though probably few) refuse to go the download/share blog route, which is a commendable path to take.

[colinmce]

In all honesty, I just can't "hear" music that is downloaded/burned. The connection is missing, even when it's something like a performance that is being offered by the artist. I mean, it's easier in that situation, but still far from ideal.

[David Ayers]

Not all the albums you guys list are available, but many are findable indeed. Isn't it really that people don't want to pay collector's prices? I won't say which titles I found, but I found them within two minutes of seeing them in this thread.

Yeah, I mean, I just can't fork over a grand for an LP that's unavailable in another format. If I could I would!

And some people on this board (though probably few) refuse to go the download/share blog route, which is a commendable path to take.

Yes on Nommo I agree - I didn't say everything was findable at a reasonable price - but several other things mentioned here go for $30-60, and I'm saying people could buy those if they actually wanted them.

[clifford_thornton]

Oh, absolutely. I think I paid around $60 for Nommo, but that was a while ago in the early days of eBay (Live at Yale is the really elusive one).

Of course, some of this stuff just won't be reissued no matter what - Graves doesn't want the SRP albums to be reissued, ever. And the Horo reissue program, well, we've been over that before elsewhere. I think the IPS catalog is also locked down (some excellent stuff across those four releases). And the estates of Jeanne Lee, Clifford Thornton (the real one!), and many other musicians have made it nearly impossible to see their music become legitimately available once again.

[Pete C]

Why is buying a used LP for $60 that nobody makes royalties off of any different than downloading a rip from a blog, in moral terms? Is it just that we've been accustomed to mechanical recordings being resellable without turnover royalties?

[JSngry]

Why is buying a used LP for $60 that nobody makes royalties off of any different than downloading a rip from a blog, in moral terms? Is it just that we've been accustomed to mechanical recordings being resellable without turnover royalties?

Royalties, etc, none. But there is the issue of allowing the physical product to still retain value in the secondary market, which helps to keep it viable as an "item" rather than a "concept". Secondary markets of several variety sprung from that, and I for one enjoyed having th4em there.

To the extent that the financial can be linked to the moral, that's what I liked about a stong secondary market - more people could make some more money, period. And more money...etc.

[clifford_thornton]

I'd like someone to tell me what's morally wrong with buying used items on the marketplace.

Most artists I've talked to on this subject have said that, hey, at least you're paying & working to get the art from a reseller, rather than just spreading someone else's stuff around for free.

I think that when one makes a record and releases it into the marketplace, they have relinquished control over what the next owner of that physical object will do with it. That's very different from sharing intellectual property on the internet. You're dealing with object vs. concept.

[colinmce]

Yeah, I have to admit I've never heard these arguments extend to used CDs and LPs. I believe in art just as much as the next guy, but when I buy a CD, the thing is my property, just like, say a table. Now I may not be entitled to manufacture my own knockoff of the table and sell it at half the price, but I can sell the damn table if I want.

[JSngry]

Bottom feeders keep the waters fresh. Fact.

[BeBop]

The used market provides liquidity. If buyers had to keep every record they purchased, with no possibility to re-sell, the original purchase price would be diminished considerably. Presumably, royalties would be diminished as well.

I won't get into it here, but this is why there is all the recent noise about what becomes of one's iTunes library when one leaves the planet.

[JSngry]

And think about this - once analog information is all but replaced by digital in t, how easy will it be for Somebody to decide that They don't want people to know that any more and oops, where'd it all go? did it ever really happen? Must be a myth, this Armstrolington Parkertrane stuff, a bunch of ignorant superstition voodoo.

The time will come when people who own there own data will be dangerous. Don't act like it ain't never happened, and don't act like it can't ever happen again.

And say what you will about sampling, but also say that it's one possible way to send secret messages, to keep shit from disappearing completely. Not the object, but the idea.

[clifford_thornton]

The time will come when people who own there own data will be dangerous. Don't act like it ain't never happened, and don't act like it can't ever happen again.

And say what you will about sampling, but also say that it's one possible way to send secret messages, to keep shit from disappearing completely. Not the object, but the idea.

1. Time is here.

2. For sure. Sampling is another issue that's v. complex, but as a concept I think it's fine and often great. As long as the source is acknowledged, you know.

[fasstrack]

And say what you will about sampling, but also say that it's one possible way to send secret messages, to keep shit from disappearing completely. Not the object, but the idea.

That makes 0 sense to me, man. The only 'idea' behind sampling is that it's an easy way for the thug hustler types that IMO comprise most of rap to steal rather than get off their asses and God forbid learn to PLAY an instrument likd the ones they steal from can. I'm glad to see a guy like Jimmy Heath finally getting royalties from what those lowlife thugs got away w/pillaging for so long. Too little too late, but it's a start...

[clifford_thornton]

The above just smacks of ignorance.

It's also classist as all get-out.

[fasstrack]

The above just smacks of ignorance.

It's also classist as all get-out.

Whatever, dude. Talk to me after YOU'VE been ripped off. I'll leave it at that and move on.

[JSngry]

It still smacks of ignorance, though.

[.:.impossible]

IMO very insightful thoughts on sampling from Jim and Clifford. Provocative, and very valid, in a very positive way from my perspective.

[fasstrack]

It still smacks of ignorance, though.

I was specifically referring to the practice of sampling of (w/o paying for) instrumental and other sounds by rappers, a practice that went on for years. Tell me what's ignorant in that?

[clifford_thornton]

I'm not saying that compensation should be thrown to the wind, but a more nuanced look at hip-hop culture might make one think differently. The brush you seemed to paint with was too broad for my tastes.

(i.e., "fair use" clauses)