Now reading...

[paul secor]

One to stay FAR away from, even if you're a stone Dylan fan and think that you want to read everything Dylan.

[ejp626]

THE FOUR-GATED CITY - Doris Lessing - 1969.

I finally finished this title in the closely printed 669 pp Panther paperback edition (pictured). Not a good edition; surprising number of printer errors. I have to say it was a bit of a slog. I kept thinking it needed an editor badly. And yet I also felt that the book was following a plan laid down by Lessing. The book could have easily gone on for another 500 or 1000 pages, since Lessing's approach was to keep extending the circle of characters outward with new characters building off the old, like cell multiplication. However, easier to describe than to read at times.

...

The book is really rather baffling. After reading for about 600 pp in more or less realist mode, the story is continued in a series of appendices that go deep into science fiction/utopian/dystopian territory, which in retrospect, make you question how realistic the preceding 600 pages were. There is something spongy about their reality, with the walls between reality and extra-reality being somewhat permeable.

These are my initial thoughts on the book, but I suspect that the book will continue to ferment in my mind, until I get a better sense of it. This is not my first Lessing book. I previously read "The Fifth Child," which is incisive, concise, strong and scary. I also read "The Good Terrorist," whose main character, Alice Mellings, is a lot like Martha Quest, and in many ways resembles, on a smaller scale, "The Four-Gated City."

That is quite interesting. I really did not like The Good Terrorist for a variety of reasons, but probably boiling down to the idea that almost all urban dwellers of a liberal bent might get swept up into a radical position if the chips were down. Maybe that wasn't the main thrust but it is what I remembered and reacted quite badly to.

But I did like The Golden Notebook, which others didn't (many preferring the Martha Quest books). It is sort of the same thing, multi-layered with a female protagonist struggling to "keep it together."

I only read one of Lessing's SF books, and I didn't think it was all that great. She was working in the same general territory as Ursula LeGuin, but not as satisfactorily. Still, I am pretty sure I will get to the Martha Quest books one of these days.

I'm back making slow but steady progress on Demons and enjoying it. I think I am about to get introduced to a bunch of additional radical characters. I might have to read at a faster pace to not lose track of them all.

[Leeway]

THE FOUR-GATED CITY - Doris Lessing - 1969.

I finally finished this title in the closely printed 669 pp Panther paperback edition (pictured). Not a good edition; surprising number of printer errors. I have to say it was a bit of a slog. I kept thinking it needed an editor badly. And yet I also felt that the book was following a plan laid down by Lessing. The book could have easily gone on for another 500 or 1000 pages, since Lessing's approach was to keep extending the circle of characters outward with new characters building off the old, like cell multiplication. However, easier to describe than to read at times.

...

The book is really rather baffling. After reading for about 600 pp in more or less realist mode, the story is continued in a series of appendices that go deep into science fiction/utopian/dystopian territory, which in retrospect, make you question how realistic the preceding 600 pages were. There is something spongy about their reality, with the walls between reality and extra-reality being somewhat permeable.

These are my initial thoughts on the book, but I suspect that the book will continue to ferment in my mind, until I get a better sense of it. This is not my first Lessing book. I previously read "The Fifth Child," which is incisive, concise, strong and scary. I also read "The Good Terrorist," whose main character, Alice Mellings, is a lot like Martha Quest, and in many ways resembles, on a smaller scale, "The Four-Gated City."

That is quite interesting. I really did not like The Good Terrorist for a variety of reasons, but probably boiling down to the idea that almost all urban dwellers of a liberal bent might get swept up into a radical position if the chips were down. Maybe that wasn't the main thrust but it is what I remembered and reacted quite badly to.

But I did like The Golden Notebook, which others didn't (many preferring the Martha Quest books). It is sort of the same thing, multi-layered with a female protagonist struggling to "keep it together."

I only read one of Lessing's SF books, and I didn't think it was all that great. She was working in the same general territory as Ursula LeGuin, but not as satisfactorily. Still, I am pretty sure I will get to the Martha Quest books one of these days.

I'm back making slow but steady progress on Demons and enjoying it. I think I am about to get introduced to a bunch of additional radical characters. I might have to read at a faster pace to not lose track of them all.

The politics of "The Good Terrorist" didn't bother me; it comes with the title. I don't know for sure, but I suspect Lessing's politics were Left, or at least anti-authoritarian, probably a by-product of her colonial upbringing in Rhodesia. In any event, right or left, she is fearless in scrutinizing the people who make up the various camps. I like that about her. It struck me as a very authentic look into radicalism, in the tradition of Conrad's "The Secret Agent." I thought the ending of the book was quite powerful.

I too would like to read the middle books of the "Children of Violence" series, particularly for its depiction of life in the colony. Martha's transformation from an intemperate, lost young person in the first book to her translation into an esteemed figure in the last is interesting too.

I haven't read "The Golden Notebook," which I think got her the Nobel Prize. I read that Lessing got a bit sick of (or professed to be sick of) all the praise for the book, especially it being labeled a "feminist" book. Lessing claimed that "The Four-Gated City" was a better book. Don't know if that was pique or her considered view but I thought it was interesting.

[ejp626]

THE FOUR-GATED CITY - Doris Lessing - 1969.

I finally finished this title in the closely printed 669 pp Panther paperback edition (pictured). Not a good edition; surprising number of printer errors. I have to say it was a bit of a slog. I kept thinking it needed an editor badly. And yet I also felt that the book was following a plan laid down by Lessing. The book could have easily gone on for another 500 or 1000 pages, since Lessing's approach was to keep extending the circle of characters outward with new characters building off the old, like cell multiplication. However, easier to describe than to read at times.

...

The book is really rather baffling. After reading for about 600 pp in more or less realist mode, the story is continued in a series of appendices that go deep into science fiction/utopian/dystopian territory, which in retrospect, make you question how realistic the preceding 600 pages were. There is something spongy about their reality, with the walls between reality and extra-reality being somewhat permeable.

These are my initial thoughts on the book, but I suspect that the book will continue to ferment in my mind, until I get a better sense of it. This is not my first Lessing book. I previously read "The Fifth Child," which is incisive, concise, strong and scary. I also read "The Good Terrorist," whose main character, Alice Mellings, is a lot like Martha Quest, and in many ways resembles, on a smaller scale, "The Four-Gated City."

That is quite interesting. I really did not like The Good Terrorist for a variety of reasons, but probably boiling down to the idea that almost all urban dwellers of a liberal bent might get swept up into a radical position if the chips were down. Maybe that wasn't the main thrust but it is what I remembered and reacted quite badly to.

But I did like The Golden Notebook, which others didn't (many preferring the Martha Quest books). It is sort of the same thing, multi-layered with a female protagonist struggling to "keep it together."

I only read one of Lessing's SF books, and I didn't think it was all that great. She was working in the same general territory as Ursula LeGuin, but not as satisfactorily. Still, I am pretty sure I will get to the Martha Quest books one of these days.

I'm back making slow but steady progress on Demons and enjoying it. I think I am about to get introduced to a bunch of additional radical characters. I might have to read at a faster pace to not lose track of them all.

The politics of "The Good Terrorist" didn't bother me; it comes with the title. I don't know for sure, but I suspect Lessing's politics were Left, or at least anti-authoritarian, probably a by-product of her colonial upbringing in Rhodesia. In any event, right or left, she is fearless in scrutinizing the people who make up the various camps. I like that about her. It struck me as a very authentic look into radicalism, in the tradition of Conrad's "The Secret Agent." I thought the ending of the book was quite powerful.

I too would like to read the middle books of the "Children of Violence" series, particularly for its depiction of life in the colony. Martha's transformation from an intemperate, lost young person in the first book to her translation into an esteemed figure in the last is interesting too.

I haven't read "The Golden Notebook," which I think got her the Nobel Prize. I read that Lessing got a bit sick of (or professed to be sick of) all the praise for the book, especially it being labeled a "feminist" book. Lessing claimed that "The Four-Gated City" was a better book. Don't know if that was pique or her considered view but I thought it was interesting.

I believe I heard that too -- that she preferred The Four-Gated City, so I will try to make sure to get around to it, but I have a hard time reading books out of sequence, so I have to wait until I have time for all the book in the series. Anyway, I nearly asked her a question at a reading about The Golden Notebook. Glad I held my tongue.

BTW, The Diaries of Jane Somers are quite good (two books in one). It was this interesting experiment where she sent them to a publisher under a pseudonym. They were published but vanished without a trace until it was revealed that she had written them. I thought they were somewhat Pym-like, but it has been a long time since I read them.

[A Lark Ascending]

Just started this intriguing account of the British folk clubs.

Fascinated by the bizarre origins - Skiffle, the influence of the American folk revival, the Communist Party, CND etc. Then the growing awareness that there was something odd about singing the 'traditional' songs of people thousands of miles away with little knowledge of the roots of local music. A time when there wasn't much on record so going to clubs was how you heard this stuff. An awful lot of working class involvement at that time - folk is infamous now for being enjoyed by teachers and local government workers (well, those who still exist).

I became interested in folk music via record and then went to folk clubs in their last successful days from the mid-70s to early 80s. Amazing to read about the vibrancy and enthusiasm of the very DIY scene of the 50s and 60s.

Interesting to read alongside Pete Frame's "The Restless Generation: How Rock Music Changed the Face of 1950s Britain" which covers the same time period (and many of the same venues) but from the rock perspective.

Edited August 28, 2014 by A Lark Ascending

[kinuta]

Just started this intriguing account of the British folk clubs.

Fascinated by the bizarre origins - Skiffle, the influence of the American folk revival, the Communist Party, CND etc. Then the growing awareness that there was something odd about singing the 'traditional' songs of people thousands of miles away with little knowledge of the roots of local music. A time when there wasn't much on record so going to clubs was how you heard this stuff. An awful lot of working class involvement at that time - folk is infamous now for being enjoyed by teachers and local government workers (well, those who still exist).

I became interested in folk music via record and then went to folk clubs in their last successful days from the mid-70s to early 80s. Amazing to read about the vibrancy and enthusiasm of the very DIY scene of the 50s and 60s.

Interesting to read alongside Pete Frame's "The Restless Generation: How Rock Music Changed the Face of 1950s Britain" which covers the same time period (and many of the same venues) but from the rock perspective.

My good friend in Kawasaki, who is also from Sheffield, is a mate of Bean's and has told me many a tale of his encounters with the criminal world when he worked as a probation officer.

[A Lark Ascending]

Just started this intriguing account of the British folk clubs.

Fascinated by the bizarre origins - Skiffle, the influence of the American folk revival, the Communist Party, CND etc. Then the growing awareness that there was something odd about singing the 'traditional' songs of people thousands of miles away with little knowledge of the roots of local music. A time when there wasn't much on record so going to clubs was how you heard this stuff. An awful lot of working class involvement at that time - folk is infamous now for being enjoyed by teachers and local government workers (well, those who still exist).

I became interested in folk music via record and then went to folk clubs in their last successful days from the mid-70s to early 80s. Amazing to read about the vibrancy and enthusiasm of the very DIY scene of the 50s and 60s.

Interesting to read alongside Pete Frame's "The Restless Generation: How Rock Music Changed the Face of 1950s Britain" which covers the same time period (and many of the same venues) but from the rock perspective.

My good friend in Kawasaki, who is also from Sheffield, is a mate of Bean's and has told me many a tale of his encounters with the criminal world when he worked as a probation officer.

I noticed that most of his other books are about the criminal world. That would explain why.

This one is a compilation of quotes from interviews he did. He writes a contextual intro to each chapter and then lets the voices speak. He's done a good job of selecting and arranging so you still get a sense of narrative. Very good at off-setting different views e.g. on Ewan MacColl.

Edited August 29, 2014 by A Lark Ascending

[Leeway]

LOITERING WITH INTENT - Muriel Spark - 1981

The story of aspiring poet and novelist Fleur Talbot and her employer and nemesis, Sir Quentin Oliver, with his nasty assistant, Beryl Tims, stand-ins, respectively, for Spark and the Poetry Society she briefly worked for, a stint that ended amidst wreckage. Thanks to Stannard, I could pick out the considerable amount of autobiographical material Spark herself included. Lots of score settling going on. As usual, Spark demonstrates a quick wit, and she throws some wicked jabs. I found it very amusing. If one thinks of the novel as in any way realistic, one would likely end up disappointed. It's really more of a fantasy or fairy tale. Which is not to say it doesn't deal with serious things, nor that it is perfectly constructed.

There are two lines in the novel that go far towards explaining Spark own attitude:

"How wonderful it feels to be an artist and a woman in the twentieth century." This is stated near the beginning and the end of the book.

Another, taken from Benvenuto Cellini, is repeated several times: "And so, having entered the fullness of my years, from there by the grace of God, I go on my way rejoicing."

[Jazzmoose]

I needed a break from my PKD runthrough (just finished The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch) and decided to visit an old friend:

[jazzbo]

[BillF]

Just finished this, confirming that it's the early Spark I prefer. Episodic structure and humorous, satiric approach reminiscent of Evelyn Waugh in his Vile Bodies period. Not surprisingly, Stannard reports that Waugh loved it. The concluding courtroom episode was a bit of a surprise, perhaps a bit out of character with the rest of the book, but very well and - as far as I could judge - expertly handled. Nothing in Stannard though about research on court procedure or advice from lawyer(s). My only grumble is that too many characters were introduced in what is quite a short novel - or perhaps it's just my way of reading 10 or so pages at a time and then putting the book away for the best part of a day that causes me to lose track of who some of these people are :-)

[Leeway]

Just finished this, confirming that it's the early Spark I prefer. Episodic structure and humorous, satiric approach reminiscent of Evelyn Waugh in his Vile Bodies period. Not surprisingly, Stannard reports that Waugh loved it. The concluding courtroom episode was a bit of a surprise, perhaps a bit out of character with the rest of the book, but very well and - as far as I could judge - expertly handled. Nothing in Stannard though about research on court procedure or advice from lawyer(s). My only grumble is that too many characters were introduced in what is quite a short novel - or perhaps it's just my way of reading 10 or so pages at a time and then putting the book away for the best part of a day that causes me to lose track of who some of these people are :-)

Eager to get to that one. My plan is to read all Spark's novels this yar. I'm about halfway there, with 10 down. Aiding and Abetting is next, plus I just got a couple of later titles from my local library. Stannard's bio got me particularly interested in Robinson, I just need to locate a copy.

Spark usually wrote quickly, and eschewed the advice or guidance of editors, so sometimes there is a slightly slapdash quality to her work, occasionally the seams show. There very well may be too many characters on stage at once! I'll keep that in mind as I read.

Right now I'm reading something completely different from Spark; a world away (I think). I'll post on it in next couple of days.

[BillF]

Just finished this, confirming that it's the early Spark I prefer. Episodic structure and humorous, satiric approach reminiscent of Evelyn Waugh in his Vile Bodies period. Not surprisingly, Stannard reports that Waugh loved it. The concluding courtroom episode was a bit of a surprise, perhaps a bit out of character with the rest of the book, but very well and - as far as I could judge - expertly handled. Nothing in Stannard though about research on court procedure or advice from lawyer(s). My only grumble is that too many characters were introduced in what is quite a short novel - or perhaps it's just my way of reading 10 or so pages at a time and then putting the book away for the best part of a day that causes me to lose track of who some of these people are :-)

Eager to get to that one. My plan is to read all Spark's novels this yar. I'm about halfway there, with 10 down. Aiding and Abetting is next, plus I just got a couple of later titles from my local library. Stannard's bio got me particularly interested in Robinson, I just need to locate a copy.

Spark usually wrote quickly, and eschewed the advice or guidance of editors, so sometimes there is a slightly slapdash quality to her work, occasionally the seams show. There very well may be too many characters on stage at once! I'll keep that in mind as I read.

Right now I'm reading something completely different from Spark; a world away (I think). I'll post on it in next couple of days.

Availability of Spark novels is an issue for me too, as I'm primarily a library user and she's sadly out of fashion.( I'm very critical of libraries which will buy half a dozen copies of Ian McEwan's latest, while allowing massive gaps to develop in their classic 20th century fiction stock.) But Territorial Rights is available to me in a Spark Omnibus volume, so that will probably be my last. Anyway, there's lots for me to read without straying to far from this theme. I have more Drabbles lined up and am even taking interest in Lynne Reid Banks and Edna O'Brien.

Edited August 31, 2014 by BillF

[ejp626]

Availability of Spark novels is an issue for me too, as I'm primarily a library user and she's sadly out of fashion.( I'm very critical of libraries which will buy half a dozen copies of Ian McEwan's latest, while allowing massive gaps to develop in their classic 20th century fiction stock.) But Territorial Rights is available to me in a Spark Omnibus volume, so that will probably be my last. Anyway, there's lots for me to read without straying to far from this theme. I have more Drabbles lined up and am even taking interest in Lynne Reid Banks and Edna O'Brien.

This is a bit of an issue for me. I find that while the Toronto library system has a copy of almost everything I am interested in, for a surprising number of novels, they have one copy and stick it in reference. That strikes me as very odd, and it certainly isn't the way the Vancouver system operated. Fortunately, the University of Toronto library has perhaps an even better collection, and fewer novels, plays or poetry collections are tagged as reference. I just need to get my act together and register for my alumni card over there.

[BillF]

Availability of Spark novels is an issue for me too, as I'm primarily a library user and she's sadly out of fashion.( I'm very critical of libraries which will buy half a dozen copies of Ian McEwan's latest, while allowing massive gaps to develop in their classic 20th century fiction stock.) But Territorial Rights is available to me in a Spark Omnibus volume, so that will probably be my last. Anyway, there's lots for me to read without straying to far from this theme. I have more Drabbles lined up and am even taking interest in Lynne Reid Banks and Edna O'Brien.

This is a bit of an issue for me. I find that while the Toronto library system has a copy of almost everything I am interested in, for a surprising number of novels, they have one copy and stick it in reference.

Exactly what has happened to jazz biographies in Manchester Public Libraries' most recent re-organisation. So pleased I read most of what interested me at a time when I could take them home. So I've been obliged to use Amazon for my most recent ones - on Bud Powell and Stan Kenton. Incidentally, collusion between libraries and Amazon is something that annoys me. At one stage University of Manchester's catalogue was sending you directly to Amazon for items they didn't have.

[jlhoots]

Anthony Doerr: All The Light We Cannot See

[Leeway]

Phil Klay's Redeployment , a group of 12 stories, each with a different narrator and each focusing on a different aspect of the Iraq War, and Kevin Powers' Letter Composed During a Lull in the Fighting, a collection of poems also dealing with the Iraq War, had been heavily recommended, so I put in a "hold" at my library (all copies were out). When they came in last week, I put aside the 20th century modern English women authors for a bit.

The defining military engagement of my generation was the Vietnam War. The great books for me that came out of that conflict were Tim O'Brien's The Things They Carried and, If I Die in a Combat Zone ; Michael Herr's Dispatches; and, Phil Caputo's Going After Cacciato. I think Klay's and Powers' books can stand comparison with these books of a previous war. What they all have in common is brutal honesty, deep feeling, and no easy answers.

[ejp626]

The defining military engagement of my generation was the Vietnam War. The great books for me that came out of that conflict were Tim O'Brien's The Things They Carried and, If I Die in a Combat Zone ; Michael Herr's Dispatches; and, Phil Caputo's Going After Cacciato. I think Klay's and Powers' books can stand comparison with these books of a previous war. What they all have in common is brutal honesty, deep feeling, and no easy answers.

Maybe Caputo's A Rumor of War? Going After Cacciato is also by Tim O'Brien.

[Leeway]

The defining military engagement of my generation was the Vietnam War. The great books for me that came out of that conflict were Tim O'Brien's The Things They Carried and, If I Die in a Combat Zone ; Michael Herr's Dispatches; and, Phil Caputo's Going After Cacciato. I think Klay's and Powers' books can stand comparison with these books of a previous war. What they all have in common is brutal honesty, deep feeling, and no easy answers.

Maybe Caputo's A Rumor of War? Going After Cacciato is also by Tim O'Brien.

Oh yes, that's right! Thanks for the correction. Relying on memory at this age is reckless

[paul secor]

Rohinton Mistry: Family Matters

[Leeway]

AIDING AND ABETTING - Muriel Spark - 2000

Spark's novel is primarily about the murderous Lord Lucan, who, aided and abetted by his upper-class friends, fled England after murdering the nanny and nearly murdering his wife, and was never found again. Spark's brilliant move is to wed the story of Lucan with that of Hildegarde Wolf, formerly Beate Pappenheim, a fraudulent stigmatic, who, when discovered, fled and assumed the identity of Hildegarde, and became a successful psychiatrist in Paris. These two stories interweave to great effect; the characters are rather fascinating. The issues of identity, religion, belief, and class, all get into play. I thought there was an especially noticeable criticism of the upper-classes, those born to privilege, who thought nothing of assisting a murderer because he was "one of us." There are two "fails" in the novel. One is the subplot involving Lacey, daughter of a woman who knew Lucan, and Joe, a gambling friend of Lucan, who decide together to find Lucan. The other is the ending, something out of early Waugh, that feels a bit of a let-down.

[Leeway]

REALITY AND DREAMS (1997)- Muriel Spark

The protagonist of the story is Tom Richards, a film director. At the beginning of the story, Richards is just regaining consciousness from a fall off a high directing crane. Richards begins the process of physical and artistic recovery, even as he deals with the many aspects of love and hate that surround him in the persons of actors and family members.

Substitute "novelist" for "director" and "novel" for "movie" and one gets the essence of the story (although it really works for any artistic pursuit). There is the usual sexual merry-go-round, people falling into bed with each other; likely overdone, but suggestive of the sexual roots of artistic creation. Interesting to see Spark working with a male protagonist, which comes off pretty well. Indeed, as I was reading, I was thinking how similar this novel was to some of those by Philip Roth and Saul Bellow. There is even a Bellovian "reality instructor" in the person of a West Indian cab driver, whom Tom hires to drive him around at night to witness city scenes. As it turns out, Dave is unostentatiously right about many things; he gives Tom a grounding in reality.

At one point in the novel, Tom's extremely unpleasant daughter, Marigold, disappears. There follows a long section where real, false, and fraudulent sightings of Marigold take place. This is very much like what Spark does in her next novel, Aiding and Abetting, where sightings of the murderous Lord Lucan become the leitmotif of that novel. Anyway, I found Reality and Dreams an interesting read.

[paul secor]

Read this recently. My introduction to Wodehouse (courtesy of Jeff C.). I'll be reading more Wodehouse in the future.

[Leeway]

Rohinton Mistry: Family Matters

Paul, what's your take on the Mistry books? I have "Family Matters" sitting about here, wonder if it is worth reading.

THE FINISHING SCHOOL - Muriel Spark - 2004.

Spark's last novel. I was going to read it last, but the library had it, so I went with it. The story concerns Rowland Mahler (nice touch) and his wife Nina, who run a "finishing school" in Lausanne, Switzerland. Rowland teaches the creative writing class and is an aspiring novelist. Red-haired (like MS) Chris (Christ?) Wiley is a teen student in the class who has already embarked on his first novel, a fictional treatment of the murders of Mary Queen of Scots' attendant and husband. The novel is already drawing publisher and movie interest, much to the absolute frustration of the blocked Rowland, who becomes more and more obsessed with Chris. Various turns are taken, various people are bedded (including teen Chris bedding a 60+ female guest lecturer). I wonder if Spark wrote about sexual relations from her experience or from her fantasies. Anyway, it's a good read, quite amusing, let down a little by, again, a weak, ending, that fails to redeem the interesting ideas raised earlier in the novel. This is a very short book, more of a sketch than a full-blooded novel, more a tapas than a meal, but Spark has made the form her own.

[paul secor]

Rohinton Mistry: Family Matters

Paul, what's your take on the Mistry books? I have "Family Matters" sitting about here, wonder if it is worth reading.

I've only read Family Matters and enjoyed it very much. Interesting characters and situations - gave me a sense of how people and families have similarities, no matter what the culture.