Now reading...

[BruceH]

Actually, I am glad that the field has space for PKD and Farmer and Delany and Harlan Ellison (who almost never writes "hard" SF) and certainly Zelazny, but I still wouldn't give the awards out to the trippiest stories and novels.

Agreed. Well, except for Ellison; I think he's pretty much a waste of space, a man who's schtick became tiresome long ago. There was a lot of silliness involved in the "new wave". I'd compare it to the Sex Pistols in rock, as an interesting, if embarrassing, necessary step to get to what was next, but overrated on it's own. (Except for Effinger's What Entropy Means to Me; for some reason I love that book!)

I remember a story by someone (I think it was Spinrad, another author I like) riffing on John Dos Passos (forgive if I'm spelling wrong) being praised as something amazing, and I just didn't get it. I might have been more impressed if Heinlein hadn't already done the same thing in Stranger in a Strange Land, but I guess he was too old guard to count. Silly, silly, silly...

The book you're thinking of may be Brunner's Stand on Zanzibar. It certainly copied the style of John Dos Passos' USA Trilogy. A flawed but interesting novel. On the other hand, as far as Stranger In A Strange Land goes, I could never get on board the bandwagon for that one. At a certain point, about 1959 or so, Heinlein became a windy, stiff-necked, get-off-my-lawn old man. I find most of his later stuff patchy to insufferable.

[ejp626]

I remember a story by someone (I think it was Spinrad, another author I like) riffing on John Dos Passos (forgive if I'm spelling wrong) being praised as something amazing, and I just didn't get it. I might have been more impressed if Heinlein hadn't already done the same thing in Stranger in a Strange Land, but I guess he was too old guard to count. Silly, silly, silly...

The book you're thinking of may be Brunner's Stand on Zanzibar. It certainly copied the style of John Dos Passos' USA Trilogy. A flawed but interesting novel. On the other hand, as far as Stranger In A Strange Land goes, I could never get on board the bandwagon for that one. At a certain point, about 1959 or so, Heinlein became a windy, stiff-necked, get-off-my-lawn old man. I find most of his later stuff patchy to insufferable.

I read Stand on Zanzibar, but don't remember much of it at all (same thing with Zelazny's To Die in Italbar).

The thing about Heinlein, is he definitely went through this crochety phase where he was just sure that engineers and the military would end up running societies (esp. Starship Troopers and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, though I generally like the latter one). But then he went all 70s with the pansexual books he wrote after that (I Will Fear No Evil, Time Enough for Love, Number of the Beast, To Sail Beyond the Sunset). Friday is probably the least creepy of these late books, but it is still a bit odd to see a male author "Mary-Janeing."

I'm sure I would be a lot less impressed with Heinlein's wisdom today than I was as a teenager.

[Jazzmoose]

The book you're thinking of may be Brunner's Stand on Zanzibar. It certainly copied the style of John Dos Passos' USA Trilogy. A flawed but interesting novel. On the other hand, as far as Stranger In A Strange Land goes, I could never get on board the bandwagon for that one. At a certain point, about 1959 or so, Heinlein became a windy, stiff-necked, get-off-my-lawn old man. I find most of his later stuff patchy to insufferable.

No, it was a short story in one of the Dangerous Visions anthologies. Stand on Zanzibar was the chess one, wasn't it? I never managed to finish it or Shockwave Rider, unfortunately. I should probably give that one another try.

[Jazzmoose]

The thing about Heinlein, is he definitely went through this crochety phase where he was just sure that engineers and the military would end up running societies (esp. Starship Troopers and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, though I generally like the latter one). But then he went all 70s with the pansexual books he wrote after that (I Will Fear No Evil, Time Enough for Love, Number of the Beast, To Sail Beyond the Sunset). Friday is probably the least creepy of these late books, but it is still a bit odd to see a male author "Mary-Janeing."

I'm sure I would be a lot less impressed with Heinlein's wisdom today than I was as a teenager.

Personally, I thought Starship Troopers was just as good as The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. I didn't mind that part of his career at all (although Stranger was just too much); it was the later phase (won't bother naming the offenders as you already have). Though I Will Fear No Evil certainly deserves special mention as particularly pathetic. I know Number of the Beast is often held up as his worst, but I'd much rather read that the the embarrassingly bad Fear No Evil. But even then, I thought Friday and Job: a Comedy of Justice were worth reading.

In the long run, I'm afraid Heinlein will be remembered for his hand in creating the conventions of the genre rather than for his actual writing. Except for All You Zombies; criticize that one and I'll turn back into a teenaged fanboy and go batshit!

[ejp626]

The thing about Heinlein, is he definitely went through this crochety phase where he was just sure that engineers and the military would end up running societies (esp. Starship Troopers and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, though I generally like the latter one). But then he went all 70s with the pansexual books he wrote after that (I Will Fear No Evil, Time Enough for Love, Number of the Beast, To Sail Beyond the Sunset). Friday is probably the least creepy of these late books, but it is still a bit odd to see a male author "Mary-Janeing."

I'm sure I would be a lot less impressed with Heinlein's wisdom today than I was as a teenager.

Personally, I thought Starship Troopers was just as good as The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. I didn't mind that part of his career at all (although Stranger was just too much); it was the later phase (won't bother naming the offenders as you already have). Though I Will Fear No Evil certainly deserves special mention as particularly pathetic. I know Number of the Beast is often held up as his worst, but I'd much rather read that the the embarrassingly bad Fear No Evil. But even then, I thought Friday and Job: a Comedy of Justice were worth reading.

In the long run, I'm afraid Heinlein will be remembered for his hand in creating the conventions of the genre rather than for his actual writing. Except for All You Zombies; criticize that one and I'll turn back into a teenaged fanboy and go batshit!

I don't remember too much about Job, though

SPOILERS

I have some vague recollection that both God and the Devil were sort of like chess-playing aliens and then it turned out there was some power above them.

I almost always conflate Heinlein's Job with Old Testament Job, against which I always have an intense negative reaction.

I honestly can't remember if I did read The Cat That Walks Through Walls. I think that one was supposedly ok.

[Leeway]

Yes, that seems the likely reason for the article, although the Washington Post might gets its own reviewer (I would guess Michael Dirda, but let's see). Will advise.

I found the article on Penelope Jardine quite interesting. I can see why the character of the quirky, difficult young man is a recurrent one in Spark. I was also thinking how the move to Italy affected Spark and her work, although I don't have that aspect precisely figured out. I don't think it was a positive move though.

The article has whetted my appetite for this, which I began today. I'll probably break off from time to time to read other Spark novels.

Yes, I noted the Stannard; now on my list. My recent used book hunt, which turned up "Territorial Rights," also turned up:

I need to dip into it a bit. Also, don't forget "The Comforters"-- that first book is quite revealing and often the template for what follows.

Here's the article-review in the Washington Post. As I guessed, it is by Michael Dirda, the "belles lettres" guy in DC. He likes the essays and is a fan of the novels:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/books/michael-dirda-reviews-the-informed-air-essays-by-muriel-spark/2014/07/09/7f83a936-fbd7-11e3-932c-0a55b81f48ce_story.html

[BillF]

Yes, that seems the likely reason for the article, although the Washington Post might gets its own reviewer (I would guess Michael Dirda, but let's see). Will advise.

I found the article on Penelope Jardine quite interesting. I can see why the character of the quirky, difficult young man is a recurrent one in Spark. I was also thinking how the move to Italy affected Spark and her work, although I don't have that aspect precisely figured out. I don't think it was a positive move though.

The article has whetted my appetite for this, which I began today. I'll probably break off from time to time to read other Spark novels.

Yes, I noted the Stannard; now on my list. My recent used book hunt, which turned up "Territorial Rights," also turned up:

I need to dip into it a bit. Also, don't forget "The Comforters"-- that first book is quite revealing and often the template for what follows.

Here's the article-review in the Washington Post. As I guessed, it is by Michael Dirda, the "belles lettres" guy in DC. He likes the essays and is a fan of the novels:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/books/michael-dirda-reviews-the-informed-air-essays-by-muriel-spark/2014/07/09/7f83a936-fbd7-11e3-932c-0a55b81f48ce_story.html

Yes, really interesting review. Makes me realise just how much readable stuff by Spark there is.

[johnblitweiler]

You guys almost got me started on another Muriel Spark binge. Read "The Comforters" and reread "A Far Cry from Kensington" recently, but now it looks like I'm up against a stone wall: "The Mandelbaum Gate."

Almost all my books and records were lost in the fire last winter. But now I'm living a block from the first Powell's bookstore, which a WHPK friend manages. A few times a week they throw out books they reject -- slightly damaged covers, too trashy, too many, who knows why -- and the neighbors pick through the old boxes and sacks. Too easy to rebuild and add to your library.

[Leeway]

"The Mandelbaum Gate" is reputedly the most problematic of her novels. I haven't read it (yet), so can't speak from experience.

I spent a lot of time in that Powell's in Hyde Park (57th St?) when I lived in Chicago, both buying and selling books to/from them. The stock used to be mostly upmarket items, very nice, a bit pricier than the average. Their discards are probably pretty good.

I love picking $1.00 carts, store discards, etc. One can find a lot of classic literature in that way; that stuff just flies under the radar mostly. I always poke around the Strand carts outside when I am in NYC. There's another store in Brooklyn where I usually leave with an armful of books just from the dollar cart.

[BillF]

"The Mandelbaum Gate" is reputedly the most problematic of her novels. I haven't read it (yet), so can't speak from experience.

I spent a lot of time in that Powell's in Hyde Park (57th St?) when I lived in Chicago, both buying and selling books to/from them. The stock used to be mostly upmarket items, very nice, a bit pricier than the average. Their discards are probably pretty good.

I love picking $1.00 carts, store discards, etc. One can find a lot of classic literature in that way; that stuff just flies under the radar mostly. I always poke around the Strand carts outside when I am in NYC. There's another store in Brooklyn where I usually leave with an armful of books just from the dollar cart.

Most of my reading comes from libraries: Manchester University Library and Manchester Public Libraries - keeps costs down when you're retired! The exception is more recent jazz biographies which the libraries don't have - I've bought eight of those this year, though I did manage to get your Ornette biog from Manchester Public Libraries, John.

[jazztrain]

Jim Brosnan. "The Long Season."

[ejp626]

I just wrapped up The Tin Flute. Overall fairly depressing. One of the more depressing books I have read with exception of Mintry's A Fine Balance. The only way that anyone seems to escape poverty is when the menfolk join the army (it's early days of WWII in this novel). Probably accurate, but still depressing. The contrast with Tremblay's The Fat Woman Next Door is Pregnant is fairly striking, where the family is definitely lower class (if not quite as poor as the Lacasse family). One man did go off to WWII but the other got a family exemption and stayed behind. Day-to-day existence doesn't seem to grind the Tremblays down nearly as much as the Lacasses.

As I am still waiting on a bunch of books to arrive, I did find Grass's The Tin Drum at the library, so I've started that. It's ok. Very fragmented. The narrator reminds me a fair bit of the semi-reliable narrator of Midnight's Children, which incidentally I re-read six or eight months ago. I hadn't made the connection before, but I think Rushdie's probably was somewhat influenced by The Tin Drum.

[Leeway]

MARTHA QUEST - Doris Lessing (1952) .

A little digression from Muriel. A bildungsroman of young Martha Quest, in Pre-WWI South Africa, from the ages of about 15-19. Martha is bookish fiercely independent, adventurous, idealistic, liberal. She leaves her farm home and goes to the nearest city, itself nothing much more than a frontier town, but a place where youthful, urban adventures are possible; these are mostly drinking, dancing, and having sex. The novel ends with her ill-starred marriage and Europe on the very brink of WWII.

This is the first novel in a group of novels under the heading of "Children of Violence," although I believe each stands on its own. This novel has been compared to those of D.H. Lawrence. I can see that. I found the novel to be very well-crafted. The problem I had with it is the title's heroine was difficult to really take an interest in, as she funks every moral, personal and political test put to her (or that she puts to her self). Typically, she says one thing and does another. She espouses high ideals but rarely supports them in action. She resists bad things only to give in to them later. She is angry inside but puts on the charm to those around her. The novel ends in a complete crack-up: a bad marriage and a world war. Fun!

The novel does draw an interesting picture of South Africa under British rule, and the treatment of the native population (kaffirs). Lessing is adamantly critical of English and Afrikaaner social and racial mores. So is Martha Quest but when confronted with several scenes of social injustice, she fails to act with integrity. Perhaps Martha comes into her own in the later novels in the series. Lessing is a challenging writer, earnest, full of ideas, minutely crafted, but a little like literary broccoli, good for you but not always tasty. Still, this seriousness will probably draw me back to others of her works sometime later.

[jlhoots]

Michael McGarrity: Back Lands

[paul secor]

Georges Simenon: The Bar on the Seine

Probably the best Maigret novel I've read.

[johnblitweiler]

And my favorite Maigret novel was the source of a quite good Jean Renoir movie "La Nuit du Carefour," which lacked subtitles in English. Didn't need subtitles, either, Renoir didn't seem to change anything. Unusual to see a Renoir thriller.

[paul secor]

Steve Lowenthal: Dance of Death: The Life of John Fahey, American Guitarist

[niels]

Packing my bags for vacation

Valerie Wilmer - As Serious As Your Life

I.S. Toergenjew - First Love

Louis Couperus - Old People and the Things that Pass

[BillF]

THE COMFORTERS - Muriel Spark - 1957.

Picked up an inexpensive copy of Spark's first novel while up in NYC for Vision Festival. A fairly long novel, tries to do a lot, including some meta-fictional novel-within-a-novel type stuff, doesn't quite all hang together, but is still amusing to read. It does contain the essentials of Spark's fiction: Catholicism, mental breakdown/instability, criminality, and the supernatural/supernormal.

Just finished it. Not bad as a novel, and the Spark biography shows how it came out of her situation and preoccupations at the time.

[ejp626]

THE COMFORTERS - Muriel Spark - 1957.

Picked up an inexpensive copy of Spark's first novel while up in NYC for Vision Festival. A fairly long novel, tries to do a lot, including some meta-fictional novel-within-a-novel type stuff, doesn't quite all hang together, but is still amusing to read. It does contain the essentials of Spark's fiction: Catholicism, mental breakdown/instability, criminality, and the supernatural/supernormal.

Just finished it. Not bad as a novel, and the Spark biography shows how it came out of her situation and preoccupations at the time.

What has been your favorite Spark novel so far? I figure she is someone I will get around to, but I have quite a few others ahead of her in the queue (Dorris Lessing being one).

I've made it about halfway through The Tin Drum. I can understand it's limited appeal, given what an unpleasant character Oskar is. I'm not sure if he is just a symbol of the immature Germans that let Hitler rise to power or something else, like the weak victims of German oppression. (Much is made of his uncertain parentage and if he is essentially all Polish (as Oskar hopes) or half-German, half-Polish.)

It's taking me longer than expected to get through it, but that's ok as I haven't really unpacked my other books yet.

[BillF]

THE COMFORTERS - Muriel Spark - 1957.

Picked up an inexpensive copy of Spark's first novel while up in NYC for Vision Festival. A fairly long novel, tries to do a lot, including some meta-fictional novel-within-a-novel type stuff, doesn't quite all hang together, but is still amusing to read. It does contain the essentials of Spark's fiction: Catholicism, mental breakdown/instability, criminality, and the supernatural/supernormal.

Just finished it. Not bad as a novel, and the Spark biography shows how it came out of her situation and preoccupations at the time.

What has been your favorite Spark novel so far? I figure she is someone I will get around to, but I have quite a few others ahead of her in the queue (Dorris Lessing being one).

I've read six and my favorite is Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, so no surprises there.

[A Lark Ascending]

After reading the excellent but very intricate 'The Sleepwalkers' about how the war came about, a more traditional account. The first 100 cover much the same ground as Clark but thereafter it's the military history of 1914. Don't know this nearly as well as 1916/17/18.

[paul secor]

Reginald Hill: A Killing Kindness

This was the only Dalziel & Pascoe that I hadn't read yet.

Edited July 23, 2014 by paul secor

[Leeway]

THE COMFORTERS - Muriel Spark - 1957.

Picked up an inexpensive copy of Spark's first novel while up in NYC for Vision Festival. A fairly long novel, tries to do a lot, including some meta-fictional novel-within-a-novel type stuff, doesn't quite all hang together, but is still amusing to read. It does contain the essentials of Spark's fiction: Catholicism, mental breakdown/instability, criminality, and the supernatural/supernormal.

Just finished it. Not bad as a novel, and the Spark biography shows how it came out of her situation and preoccupations at the time.

What has been your favorite Spark novel so far? I figure she is someone I will get around to, but I have quite a few others ahead of her in the queue (Dorris Lessing being one).

I've read six and my favorite is Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, so no surprises there.

BillF, kudos to you on taking on "The Comforters." Question: who are the "comforters" and who is being comforted? Does the biography address that?

I would agree with BillF that "The Prime of Jean Brodie" is her best work. Following, in my order of preference, are:

"The Girls of Slender Means"

"The Ballad of Peckham Rye"

"Memento Mori"

"A Far Cry from Kensington" (1988, but hearkens back to her early work; indeed, if one did not know the dates of publication, one would likely think it was among that first group of novels.

I still have a few more to go, but I doubt they would dislodge any from the top group above.

Regarding "The Tin Drum," that is where I left it, about half-way through; rare for me to do that, but there was something about Gunther Grass' authorial sensibility that got to me. I hope you do finish it, so you can give us an appraisal of the whole work.

[BillF]

THE COMFORTERS - Muriel Spark - 1957.

Picked up an inexpensive copy of Spark's first novel while up in NYC for Vision Festival. A fairly long novel, tries to do a lot, including some meta-fictional novel-within-a-novel type stuff, doesn't quite all hang together, but is still amusing to read. It does contain the essentials of Spark's fiction: Catholicism, mental breakdown/instability, criminality, and the supernatural/supernormal.

Just finished it. Not bad as a novel, and the Spark biography shows how it came out of her situation and preoccupations at the time.

What has been your favorite Spark novel so far? I figure she is someone I will get around to, but I have quite a few others ahead of her in the queue (Dorris Lessing being one).

I've read six and my favorite is Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, so no surprises there.

BillF, kudos to you on taking on "The Comforters." Question: who are the "comforters" and who is being comforted? Does the biography address that?

The choice of that title remains a mystery to me too. I guess Stannard doesn't have an explanation either, as I don't recall my question being answered by the biography.