Angela's Ashes and its (critics') discontents: a grudge match?

[Pete C]

I'd love to know what Mr. McCourt was like as a teacher!

He was apparently much loved by his students, at least according to a 60 Minutes (or maybe CBS Sunday Morning) profile I saw back when the book came out.

Taking with a pinch of salt; magnified.

Oh good. I was afraid you were trying to rub it in Mingus's wounds.

[JETman]

He was one of my high school English teachers back in the 70s, well before his success as a writer. At the time, his brother Malachy was a well-known soap opera actor and bar owner in NYC. Who knew that Frank would go on to bigger and better things?

I'd love to know what Mr. McCourt was like as a teacher!

He was a happy-go-lucky guy who went the extra mile to help his students (including me). And yes, he was somwhat legendary around the sacred halls of Stuy High, at least while I was there. Students would often go out of their way to call out his name from across a crowded corridor during class changes, and he always acknowledged the attention.

[fasstrack]

He was one of my high school English teachers back in the 70s, well before his success as a writer. At the time, his brother Malachy was a well-known soap opera actor and bar owner in NYC. Who knew that Frank would go on to bigger and better things?

I'd love to know what Mr. McCourt was like as a teacher!

He was a happy-go-lucky guy who went the extra mile to help his students (including me). And yes, he was somwhat legendary around the sacred halls of Stuy High, at least while I was there. Students would often go out of their way to call out his name from across a crowded corridor during class changes, and he always acknowledged the attention.

Thanks! I'm gonna read Teacher--or whatever it's called---next. I couldn't put Angela's Ashes down.

[Tim McG]

He was one of my high school English teachers back in the 70s, well before his success as a writer. At the time, his brother Malachy was a well-known soap opera actor and bar owner in NYC. Who knew that Frank would go on to bigger and better things?

I'd love to know what Mr. McCourt was like as a teacher!

He was a happy-go-lucky guy who went the extra mile to help his students (including me). And yes, he was somwhat legendary around the sacred halls of Stuy High, at least while I was there. Students would often go out of their way to call out his name from across a crowded corridor during class changes, and he always acknowledged the attention.

Thanks! I'm gonna read Teacher--or whatever it's called---next. I couldn't put Angela's Ashes down.

Teacher Man...and it is very good, IMHO.

[JETman]

He was one of my high school English teachers back in the 70s, well before his success as a writer. At the time, his brother Malachy was a well-known soap opera actor and bar owner in NYC. Who knew that Frank would go on to bigger and better things?

I'd love to know what Mr. McCourt was like as a teacher!

He was a happy-go-lucky guy who went the extra mile to help his students (including me). And yes, he was somwhat legendary around the sacred halls of Stuy High, at least while I was there. Students would often go out of their way to call out his name from across a crowded corridor during class changes, and he always acknowledged the attention.

Thanks! I'm gonna read Teacher--or whatever it's called---next. I couldn't put Angela's Ashes down.

No problem, Joel. As I said earlier, nobody had a clue that he was destined for fame. Many teachers at Stuy were just as friendly, helpful and qualified as McCourt. Just one of the things that set the school apart. I was extremely happy to spend 3 of my formative years there (as opposed to spending them at the prison that was my local high school).

[fasstrack]

He was one of my high school English teachers back in the 70s, well before his success as a writer. At the time, his brother Malachy was a well-known soap opera actor and bar owner in NYC. Who knew that Frank would go on to bigger and better things?

I'd love to know what Mr. McCourt was like as a teacher!

He was a happy-go-lucky guy who went the extra mile to help his students (including me). And yes, he was somwhat legendary around the sacred halls of Stuy High, at least while I was there. Students would often go out of their way to call out his name from across a crowded corridor during class changes, and he always acknowledged the attention.

Thanks! I'm gonna read Teacher--or whatever it's called---next. I couldn't put Angela's Ashes down.

No problem, Joel. As I said earlier, nobody had a clue that he was destined for fame. Many teachers at Stuy were just as friendly, helpful and qualified as McCourt. Just one of the things that set the school apart. I was extremely happy to spend 3 of my formative years there (as opposed to spending them at the prison that was my local high school).

You're very lucky to have attended Stuyvesant. I went to Canarsie---and it was a great school. My music teacher, Phil Barr, really encouraged me. We had a basketball team with a national reputation, and Patrick Clark (a famous chef who died waiting for a heart transplant) and Warren Cuccarula (a zany rocker) were my buddies. Great times.

I tried teaching HS in the '90s and quickly found that the plum jobs were ones I'd never get near and the kids I was assigned were out of control. Could not deal with the discipline aspects and used being slightly assaulted by a kid as a way out---and never looked back, though I was very sad at the time it didn't work out. The point is: my heart really goes out to teachers. The gifted ones are a truly special breed.

[JETman]

I agree, but teaching is a tough vocation reserved for the very few. My local school was Long Island City High School, where teachers were (rightly) only concerned with getting out alive. At the time I would have attended, they brought in a disciplinarian to serve as Principal. From what I heard, he wasn't afraid to throw down with anyone who stepped out of line.

On a side note, didn't Cuccurullo serve as guitarist for Duran Duran for a while? Btw, wiki states that he worked in porn in the early 00's!:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Cuccurullo

[Pete C]

the sacred halls of Stuy High

Were you there same time as David Axelrod? I have two friends who went there ca. 1969-73.

[fasstrack]

That's Warren for you! When we were pals-pre-Zappa-he already was dating a transsexual-and he was just warming up! His girlfriend before that was uber-hot. He used to write everything in like 11/8! I wasn't surprised when he got the gig w/Zappa. He had cojunes! Zappa put him in pumps and skirts-and billed him 'Sophia Warren'! And he shut his mouth and the rest is history. The other guy, Pat Clark, was a sweetheart and very popular. He told me on the bus one day he was off to London for culinary school. Next thing I knew he's exec chef at the Odeon, then Tavern on the Green. He turned down the gig at the Clinton White House. I didn't know til seeing his NYT obit that he was considered an innovator in American cuisine. To tie it together a teacher of the kind we speak of, Lloyd Peckman, brought Pat Clark, myself, and others upstate camping. I think I speak for us all saying teachers made our youth pretty damn special.

[JETman]

the sacred halls of Stuy High

Were you there same time as David Axelrod? I have two friends who went there ca. 1969-73.

Actually I attended with Monk!

Seriously though, '73 was a little before my time. I'm joining the club that you and Joel belong to tomorrow. I graduated in its 75th anniversary year -- 1979.

That's Warren for you! When we were pals-pre-Zappa-he already was dating a transsexual-and he was just warming up! His girlfriend before that was uber-hot. He used to write everything in like 11/8! I wasn't surprised when he got the gig w/Zappa. He had cojunes! Zappa put him in pumps and skirts-and billed him 'Sophia Warren'! And he shut his mouth and the rest is history. The other guy, Pat Clark, was a sweetheart and very popular. He told me on the bus one day he was off to London for culinary school. Next thing I knew he's exec chef at the Odeon, then Tavern on the Green. He turned down the gig at the Clinton White House. I didn't know til seeing his NYT obit that he was considered an innovator in American cuisine. To tie it together a teacher of the kind we speak of, Lloyd Peckman, brought Pat Clark, myself, and others upstate camping. I think I speak for us all saying teachers made our youth pretty damn special.

They can -- or at least that's the result we hope for.

On the other hand, 4 years ago my son's 6th grade (female) music teacher got canned for posting and sending nude pics of herself to an 8th grade female student.

Edited August 28, 2012 by JETman

[fasstrack]

2 things: ah, yes. The Old Farts' Club. Charter member. I hung the clubhouse so long they voted that I take a vacation (; Also, er, could you see your way clear to faxing those pics? As Don Rickles said regularly to Johnny Carson ca. 1968 (if THAT don't date me...) I'M SO LONELY!!!

[JETman]

2 things: ah, yes. The Old Farts' Club. Charter member. I hung the clubhouse so long they voted that I take a vacation (; Also, er, could you see your way clear to faxing those pics? As Don Rickles said regularly to Johnny Carson ca. 1968 (if THAT don't date me...) I'M SO LONELY!!!

Me, Chaz Parker, Dinah Washington, Michael Jackson, Rebecca DeMornay (same year) all share the agony of being Virgos born on the same day.

[Pete C]

I'm joining the club that you and Joel belong to tomorrow.

?

[fasstrack]

Now find me The Gang that Couldn't Shoot Straight. Or let our friend JSangry-the MF can locate any arcania in seconds flat. If only there was cyber-Jeopardy...

[Tim McG]

Do they let crusty old HS teachers in this club?

[fasstrack]

Nobody else.

[fasstrack]

I read that wiki article on Warren C. Jeez. To quote the bard Lenny Bruce: 'Boy, you done yourself famous'. He not only was IN Duran Duran, he was its creative force (though again my caveat on wikipedia stands). I'm no rocker but L'm proud of my Canarsie boy. One day I'll tell the story of his mom turning into a 40-year-old Zappa groupie-and Mr. C. finally cracking and going off on her. A frickin' classic! I should get in touch w/Warren, bust his balls a little. Or he could produce my first recording of odd time sig. pieces. Fass Further Out.

[JETman]

I read that wiki article on Warren C. Jeez. To quote the bard Lenny Bruce: 'Boy, you done yourself famous'. He not only was IN Duran Duran, he was its creative force (though again my caveat on wikipedia stands). I'm no rocker but L'm proud of my Canarsie boy. One day I'll tell the story of his mom turning into a 40-year-old Zappa groupie-and Mr. C. finally cracking and going off on her. A frickin' classic! I should get in touch w/Warren, bust his balls a little. Or he could produce my first recording of odd time sig. pieces. Fass Further Out.

He could produce your album, and you could produce or direct his next flick!

[Pete C]

Howard Schultz should put out the next Joel Fass album on the Starbucks label. He's from Canarsie. Went to school with a friend of mine.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/12/14/garden/coffee-talk-with-howard-schultz-way-canarsie-one-large-hot-cup-business-strategy.html

[Tim McG]

Nobody else.

I'm in!

[fasstrack]

I'm sure everybody tells him they're from Canarsie...

[Pete C]

Joel, remember the thinly veiled racism of the old Starrett City ads: "Brooklyn like it used to be"?

[fasstrack]

Yeah, but it didn't work-mostly black folks there now. Just like Canarsie since the mid-90s. White flight... The only white guy I knew w/the balls and brains not to run was my old HS music teacher, Phil Barr. Now Orthodox Jews are buying lots of homes in Canarsie. Since the current population is largely Carribbean perhaps stay tuned for Crown Heights Redux-sans brownstones. Let's hope people don't wig out on each other and get along this trip.

[johnlitweiler]

It's interesting how this became about the McCourts, manipulative writing and variations of biography and fiction-rather than Angela's Ashes.

Sorta like discussions of Straight Life and Really The Blues, two sorta fantastic autobiogs, are actually about Mezz and Art Pepper.

The point is: my heart really goes out to teachers. The gifted ones are a truly special breed.

You are so right. I was a failure as a teacher myself and still enormously respect the ones who stuck with the job. How on earth did public schoolteachers become such 21st-century villains in America?

[fasstrack]

I thought Art Pepper many miles past full of shit-but I admit to reading Straight Life many times. It is amazing, though, how skilled some people are in self-delusion and justification. BTW, I don't view that I failed as a teacher. I've taught w/much success through the years. I just liked myself and the idea of actually TEACHING music to put myself through the bullshit NYC public schools was already putting on me that early in my career. I can't blame kids for acting like kids. The administrators, I felt were fucking cowards who whored their way out of the classroom the minute they saw how tough the gig was, and started a lifetime of taking care of number one. I couldn't stand them. To me they were the real failures, not innocent kids or talented, idealistic teachers like myself and others. Not much liking the smell of a cesspool I bailed.