Self-deprecating Jewish Humor: Ill Effects?

[fasstrack]

I got you beat by a year.But you could take me in a fight probably. But then so could Grandma Moses. Even now...

[robertoart]

I got you beat by a year.But you could take me in a fight probably. But then so could Grandma Moses. Even now...

Who's Grandma Moses? Is she a women's basketball player?

[Pete C]

I got you beat by a year.But you could take me in a fight probably. But then so could Grandma Moses. Even now...

Who's Grandma Moses? Is she a women's basketball player?

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/0907.html

[fasstrack]

I thought you were joking. She was a 'naturalist' painter who lived to be very old and kept working. And dig that last name....

[fasstrack]

This should have its own thread, but I came across Mike Gerber's Jazz Jews and started reading. Very exhaustively researched (although peppered with embarassing boners, like calling Cannonball Adderley a tenor player and Al Cohn alto), it covers a lot of ground (literally: there's much on jazz played by European Jews in the camps, and modern players in Israel). A lot about the names and lesser names here (including a late-in-life interview w/Artie Shaw. I never knew Flora Purim was a landswoman. The last name should've told me. An excellent read so far.

[Pete C]

I never knew Flora Purim was a landswoman. The last name should've told me.

Perhaps if her first name were Esther...

[fasstrack]

'May you be like Ruth and like Esther...'

[robertoart]

I thought you were joking. She was a 'naturalist' painter who lived to be very old and kept working. And dig that last name....

Joking about the womens basketballer, but not about Grandma Moses.

Was hoping the US women's basketball team was fielding some grandma's this year. Then the Australian team might have a chance of beating them for gold.

Interesting paintings though. These are primitive or naive, not naturalist however. BTW I reckon you could take her in the third. If she gave you too much trouble, just hit her over the head with that jazzbox you're wielding in your avatar.

Edited July 28, 2012 by freelancer

[fasstrack]

I wasn't sure of the exact term. Naturalist seemed close enough. Please, I beat up on that guitar enough, poor thing. I love that thing too. It is durable, though. Like Grandma...

[Tim McG]

From Get Smart to any of the Mel Brooks films, Jewish humor [or Deli humor as I refer to it] has been some of the funniest stuff I have EVER seen.

Bar none.

[Tim McG]

Hey, I'm an antizionist flaming atheist and I identify as Jewish.

Um.

We've already been through this, Pete.

An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer.

However, in America, one can claim anything he/she wants to be as long as it's legal.

God Bless dualism.

[Mike Schwartz]

According to Jewish law, if your mother is Jewish, than you are too.

No ifs and or buts, and no other requirements whatsoever.

Athiest, believer, non-believer, gay, straight, trans gender, mutant, circus clown, butcher, baker, yada yada etc.

[robertoart]

Although not a Jew, it was explained to me by Jewish people that there are the 'tribe' of Jews across the diaspora, and then there are the 'believing' or religious Jews. Neither being mutually exclusive. Cultural experience and identity takes on many forms that clearly transcends the exclusivity of 'belief'. I always thought Jews make as good a Atheist's as anyone else

[Pete C]

I've explained all I intend to explain to a certain person.

[fasstrack]

That 'tribal' impulse is very, VERY strong. I've known many Orthodox Jews and had many conversations-and the fact is belief has nothing to do with anything in the embracing of other Jews by this most faith-driven people. Being in the tribe is it-a bit troubling in the way that all ethnic insularity (as opposed to pride) is troubling. I got friendly w/a well-known Conservative rabbi (Avi Weiss-I used to drive him along w/the late Dr. Billy Taylor when I was a car service driver in Riverdale). I asked Avi once how come when a Jew smells another (religious) Jew the bond is instant and never the same w/other peoples, though Jews will be be polite, even sociable. His response was what I'd feared: 'I want to make sure my family is alright first'. So much for the family of man. I went into a Yiddishkeit free fall after that b/c ethnocentrity of that ilk is a turn-off. Only recently when the old Christ-Killer canard came up from Jew-hater Christians I was around did I want to come to my people's defense and be proud.

[Pete C]

An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer.

Just noticed the added word "believer," which was not my word. Perhaps Goodspeak could make commercials for the Romney campaign.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Pete C

[Tim McG]

An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer.

Just noticed the added word "believer," which was not my word. Perhaps Goodspeak could make commercials for the Romney campaign.

Not Mormon. Sorry.

[Pete C]

Maybe you could remove a letter.

[thedwork]

An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer.

does this mean an atheist can be a christian believer?

[Tim McG]

Nope.

[thedwork]

Hey, I'm an antizionist flaming atheist and I identify as Jewish.

An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer.

does this mean an atheist can be a christian believer?

Nope.

i don't know what you wanted us to understand when you replied to Pete C. "An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer." did you think he wasn't aware that the term 'atheist' means a person who thinks there's no God? 'cuz i assume he does know that. and i also assume that you know he knows that. what are you saying exactly? do you know? i'd like to know...

Edited July 30, 2012 by thedwork

[robertoart]

I went to a Jewish funeral and the Rabbi (if that's the right term), was actually a convert. He was from a Scottish background - and had embraced the Jewish faith. Is he actually a Jew more so than someone with a Jewish socialisation and cultural heritage who is a non-believer? I don't think so. Many people from non Jewish backgrounds embrace Judaism - but I wouldn't consider them Jewish as such, and I doubt Jews would either.

[fasstrack]

Conversion to Judaism is NOT coveted-perhaps tolerated. Read my comments below re insularity (based on suspicion after centuries of pogroms and ill-treatment and complicated justifications of being The Chosen). If your mother is not a Jew your conversion will be whispered about at the very least. The complete opposite of Christians, who want everyne to be saved. Especially Jews.

[Pete C]

Jews are forbidden from proselytizing among "gentiles" (it's OK for the Mitzvah Tank to encourage wayward Jews to return to active worship), but anybody who chooses to convert and goes through the sanctioned training process is welcomed in principle (even if there may be naysayer indvidiuals). In most cases it's to satisfy a potential spouse or spouse's family who, IMO, has often bullied the person into conversion (refusal to accept a marriage without conversion is a form of bullying, no?).

He was from a Scottish background - and had embraced the Jewish faith.

There are plenty of Scottish Jews. I knew a guy whose ancestry was Scottish Jewish, and he said, "I'm doubly cheap." Which reminds me of a Scottish condom joke...

what are you saying exactly? do you know? i'd like to know...

Can we have a rubber stamp made of that?

Edited July 30, 2012 by Pete C

[Tim McG]

Conversion to Judaism is NOT coveted-perhaps tolerated. Read my comments below re insularity (based on suspicion after centuries of pogroms and ill-treatment and complicated justifications of being The Chosen). If your mother is not a Jew your conversion will be whispered about at the very least. The complete opposite of Christians, who want everyne to be saved. Especially Jews.

Well, not exactly.

Christians want everybody to be saved but there are legions of those among us who also accept that a belief in God [Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc] is sufficient.

After all, the goal is to get to Heaven [defined by various Christian groups in multiple ways], yes? To those of us enlightened believers, it really doesn't much matter how a person gets there as long as they do. Hence, the proof is in the existence of the many and various Christian faiths. The goal is the same, but how to get there varies from one faith to another.

I'm plenty OK with that.

Edited July 31, 2012 by GoodSpeak