Archduke Trio advice needed

[Larry Kart]

The other day I picked up what would have been my ideal Archduke Trio recording -- Gilels/Kogan/Rostropovich, rec. in Moscow in 1956 and issued on Monitor -- except for one thing; it's electronically processed stereo LP of the nasty sort, with instruments wavering in and out of focus. What I love about the performance -- and it's in contrast to virtually every other performance I've heard -- is that especially in the first movement it presses firmly, almost liquidly, onward, without the little (and often not so little) pauses, swells, and other nudges of emphasis that mar (at least for me) so many other recordings. Not that I'm automatically fond of relative plainness in interpretation of Beethoven, but I think it's essential for this magnificent but IMO quite special, even quite peculiar, piece, with its near mono-thematic insistences (which probably prefigure Schubert). Scouting around, I did find one other recording that has a kinship with this one, and oddly enough it too features Russian artists of the same vintage -- Oistrakh, Lev Oborin, and Sviatoslav Knushevitsky -- which suggests that this approach to the work was one that Russian artists of that vintage probably agreed upon. In any case, it sure as heck isn't the way the Archduke is played elsewhere in the world, based on all the other performances I've now listened to.

So I'd go for the Oistrakh except that it lacks the first movement repeat, and if there ever were a work that needs such a repeat, it's the Archduke. So, any suggestions? Other, that is, than "shut up" or "go shoot yourself."

[J.A.W.]

Larry,

I'm not going to recommend any versions, since our tastes are usually very different. The reason I'm posting here is that I found a DG 2CD-set with Gilels/Kogan/Rostropovich in Beethoven's Op.97 (the Archduke trio) on Amazon. I have no idea if it's the Moscow recording from 1956, though. There's also a 5CD-set on the Doremi label with Op.97 by those three, but, judging by one of the reviews (scroll down), it might well be that a lot of noise reduction was used which could have affected the music badly.

Edited July 20, 2012 by J.A.W.

[king ubu]

That IS the 1956 Moscow recording - and it sounds mighty good to my ears! It says "MONO Recordings" in the booklet, so it shouldn't suffer from issues the reprocessed stereo editions do.

Sorry, forget to say I'm talking about the DG 2CD set - don't know the larger edition.

And I agree with Larry that this trio's "Archduke" is mighty, mighty good!

The Heifetz/Feuerman/Rubinstein from 1941 is great, too. But I'd have to compare all the versions first (also have Thibaud/Casals/Cortot, Zukerman/du Pré/Barenboim and Stern/Istomin/Rose).

[J.A.W.]

Thanks for the additional info, Flurin. I might try that 2CD-set.

I'm not a Heifetz fan, so I'm going to pass on that one (my late parents loved Heifetz, back in the 78 era, something I never understood. To my ears he's too "perfect" and lacks emotional depth. Oh well.)

Edited July 20, 2012 by J.A.W.

[Larry Kart]

Thanks, guys -- I ordered the DG set. That recording in mono, without the swimmy reprocessed stereo effect, should be just fine sound-wise, and I can't imagine a performance I'd like more. BTW, the reason its relative un-inflectedness (to coin a term) works so well IMO is that I think that the work itself is, among other things, an essay in un-inflectedness and "purification," an attempt on Beethoven's part to see just how much of his habits of inflection he could throw overboard and what would be left if he did. Thus its foreshadowing of the late Schubert piano sonatas.

P.S. Given the stylistic rhyme between this version and the Oistrakh Trio's version, I wonder what if anything the story is behind this. One doesn't think of Russian virtuosi of that era as necessarily being inclined to soft-pedal overt emotional gestures, though again I think that is what this particular work demands. I I would guess that behind this approach to the Archduke lay a common pedagogical or otherwise exemplary figure.

[MomsMobley]

yah here's a suggestion... Suk it!!

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Trios-Nos-Schubert/dp/B0019F8HKA

avoid the Denon remake unless a Suk Trio completist.

So I'd go for the Oistrakh except that it lacks the first movement repeat, and if there ever were a work that needs such a repeat, it's the Archduke. So, any suggestions? Other, that is, than "shut up" or "go shoot yourself."

[Larry Kart]

yah here's a suggestion... Suk it!!

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Trios-Nos-Schubert/dp/B0019F8HKA

avoid the Denon remake unless a Suk Trio completist.

So I'd go for the Oistrakh except that it lacks the first movement repeat, and if there ever were a work that needs such a repeat, it's the Archduke. So, any suggestions? Other, that is, than "shut up" or "go shoot yourself."

Sounds lovely, Moms -- thanks. I've heard this recording praised to the skies before.

[Chuck Nessa]

Used to have it on a Crossroads lp. Dang.

[Larry Kart]

I recently picked up a couple of lovely old Suk/Ancerl LPs -- his Mendelssohn/Bruch and his Dvorak. What a pussycat he was, as Mel Brooks might have put it.

[king ubu]

I picked up an LP of Brahms' first and third trio of the late 60's Suk Trio (Katchen, Starker) - still mighty fine!

Guess I need to find that Supraphon 2CD set, thanks for mentioning it, moms!

[king ubu]

Gave a first spin to the Suk trio version - it's great!

I guess that one, the Rubinstein/Heifetz/Feuermann and the Gilels/Kogan/Rostropovitch rank about the same for me - each one has their merits. And then I've just got another one:

Very different, much mellower, but I'm enjoying it a lot, too!

[RiRiIII]

Thanks, guys -- I ordered the DG set. That recording in mono, without the swimmy reprocessed stereo effect, should be just fine sound-wise, and I can't imagine a performance I'd like more. BTW, the reason its relative un-inflectedness (to coin a term) works so well IMO is that I think that the work itself is, among other things, an essay in un-inflectedness and "purification," an attempt on Beethoven's part to see just how much of his habits of inflection he could throw overboard and what would be left if he did. Thus its foreshadowing of the late Schubert piano sonatas.

P.S. Given the stylistic rhyme between this version and the Oistrakh Trio's version, I wonder what if anything the story is behind this. One doesn't think of Russian virtuosi of that era as necessarily being inclined to soft-pedal overt emotional gestures, though again I think that is what this particular work demands. I I would guess that behind this approach to the Archduke lay a common pedagogical or otherwise exemplary figure.

Thanks for the recommendation. All my 25+ years listening to classical music I never managed to locate a recording that can transmit the feelings I get from the Cortot/Thibaud/Casals EMI recording. And I never tried this one you mentioned. "Now's the time" (BTW, John Lewis performs this one now in my room from a 1959 Atlantic recording).

Alex.-

PS: Opus Kura the japanese label with expertise in 78s transfers just released a 2-cd set with Cortot-Thibaud-Casals recordings, incl. the Archduke. http://www.opuskura.com/releases_e.htm

Edited August 2, 2012 by Alexandros

[.:.impossible]

This piece gets significant mention in the following novel, if I remember correctly.

[J.A.W.]

I'm not a Heifetz fan, so I'm going to pass on that one (my late parents loved Heifetz, back in the 78 era, something I never understood. To my ears he's too "perfect" and lacks emotional depth. Oh well.)

Decided to try Heifetz again, even though previous efforts years ago didn't work. Ordered three of his "Living Stereo" hybrid SACDs while they're still available: Brahms/Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev/Sibelius/Glazunov and Beethoven/Mendelssohn-Bartholdy.

[Chuck Nessa]

For my taste the Brahms/Tchaikovsky is the best of the 3.