Sandusky Investigation Findings

[JETman]

  On 7/14/2012 at 6:20 PM, GoodSpeak said:

Money is a big deal this is true, but sports as a community outreach goes a long way in getting support and name recognition.

It also attracts students....non-athletic students. More to college life than just academics. Kids chose schools for the culture and legacy as well.

Sports aren't just about the money otherwise there would be no other sports than football and basketball.

The only money losers would be sports which typically don't have big gate fees. The bigger sports support them.

The only money losers would be the ones that receive no revenue from TV contracts and/or make no bowl appearances. Even that would be a stretch. And those wouldn't even lose money if they cut down on the free rides. There is no community outreach reasoning in the big 4 states (PA, FL, TX and CA) which produce most of the professional football player population!

Funny thing -- my Division 4 school had absolutely no problem attracting students without even so much as a hint of athletic glory!

[Tim McG]

  On 7/14/2012 at 6:50 PM, JETman said:

  On 7/14/2012 at 6:20 PM, GoodSpeak said:

Money is a big deal this is true, but sports as a community outreach goes a long way in getting support and name recognition.

It also attracts students....non-athletic students. More to college life than just academics. Kids chose schools for the culture and legacy as well.

Sports aren't just about the money otherwise there would be no other sports than football and basketball.

The only money losers would be sports which typically don't have big gate fees. The bigger sports support them.

The only money losers would be the ones that receive no revenue from TV contracts and/or make no bowl appearances. Even that would be a stretch. And those wouldn't even lose money if they cut down on the free rides. There is no community outreach reasoning in the big 4 states (PA, FL, TX and CA) which produce most of the professional football player population!

Funny thing -- my Division 4 school had absolutely no problem attracting students without even so much as a hint of athletic glory!

My Division I school had a helluva time attracting students who were athletes; they had to compete with the likes of USC and UCLA, but I get your point. My campus was/is the 2nd largest in California, but largely due to the fact, like San Diego State, it is a commuter school. As to community out reach, it is still very important if you want donors to give to the college and the city to support it.

The good news is they have a good basketball and baseball team so that offers students that something to do when not hitting the books.

That being said, I would hazard to guess that the LaCross, wrestling, H2O polo, volleyball, tennis, cross-country or softball teams struggle mightily with regard to gate receipts; thus lose money.

Edited July 14, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[Mike Schwartz]

Does anyone want to make a comment that relates to Penn State and/or the Sandusky case?

Could give a crap if the place you went to school lost a nickel fielding a tiddly-winks team.

[Tim McG]

  On 7/15/2012 at 12:23 AM, Mike Schwartz said:

Does anyone want to make a comment that relates to Penn State and/or the Sandusky case?

Could give a crap if the place you went to school lost a nickel fielding a tiddly-winks team.

Interesting, Mike.

Tell me, could you also "give a crap" about about lies you spread about me relative to what I actually say on this BBS?

The conversation was on topic and completly relative to the discussion regarding a corrupt athletic system which allows for cover-ups and abuses in an effort to save the program.

Man up, Mike. You got a problem with me send me a PM and we'll talk, OK?

[seeline]

  On 7/14/2012 at 5:01 PM, Larry Kart said:

Sonnymax and others -- Since my posts yesterday here, I've talked to a professional in the field of human psychology, and he convincingly explained that your position is essentially correct and mine is essentially wrong. That is, pedophilia and homosexuality are fundamentally different kinds of behavior/states of being.

Apologizing (see above).

I think you could have come up with the same answer via a little judicious research yesterday. At any rate, I think the onus (in situations like the one with Sandusky) is on not just Sandusky himself, but those who knowingly enabled his continued abuse of children. And *that* encompasses a whole lot of people, both inside PSU and in the town - The administrators at The Second Mile being (imo) some of the worst offenders in this regard, since their stated purpose was to help troubled children, not put them in harm's way.

As for the victims who testified - and all those who have not come forward (I'm sure there are many) - the thing is... they are the ones who need help and support. That seems obvious enough, but the outrage re. the reputation of Paterno (and many others) on the part of rabid PSU fans has eclipsed the goal of helping those who were harmed. The head of state-style funeral that Paterno got is a case in point - such ostentation, and for what? (Check this story from today's NYT re. Paterno's contract demands, made shortly after he testified before the grand jury this past January... they're beyond belief: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/14/sports/ncaafootball/joe-paterno-got-richer-contract-amid-jerry-sandusky-inquiry.html?_r=1&ref=sports )

[breath]

Apology accepted.

  On 7/15/2012 at 12:23 AM, Mike Schwartz said:

Does anyone want to make a comment that relates to Penn State and/or the Sandusky case?

I've tried. Not sure it did any good, though.

Edited July 15, 2012 by seeline

[JETman]

  On 7/15/2012 at 12:23 AM, Mike Schwartz said:

Does anyone want to make a comment that relates to Penn State and/or the Sandusky case?

Could give a crap if the place you went to school lost a nickel fielding a tiddly-winks team.

Mr. Radio Dude,

EVERY comment that has been made here is pertinent to the Sandusky case. Broaden your mind and maybe you'll see that. In the meantime, if you don't like what you read, move along. It's really that simple. Or, here's an idea, make a well-thought out, meaningful contribution. Better yet, make one at the PSU board. I'm sure you'll find many like-minded people there.

Tiddly-Winks Team Captain

[Mike Schwartz]

  On 7/15/2012 at 1:10 AM, JETman said:

  On 7/15/2012 at 12:23 AM, Mike Schwartz said:

Does anyone want to make a comment that relates to Penn State and/or the Sandusky case?

Could give a crap if the place you went to school lost a nickel fielding a tiddly-winks team.

Mr. Radio Dude,

EVERY comment that has been made here is pertinent to the Sandusky case. Broaden your mind and maybe you'll see that. In the meantime, if you don't like what you read, move along. It's really that simple. Or, here's an idea, make a well-thought out, meaningful contribution. Better yet, make one at the PSU board. I'm sure you'll find many like-minded people there.

Tiddly-Winks Team Captain

OK rollhead......wink, wink

[Tim McG]

Where are the Mods?

  On 7/15/2012 at 1:10 AM, JETman said:

  On 7/15/2012 at 12:23 AM, Mike Schwartz said:

Does anyone want to make a comment that relates to Penn State and/or the Sandusky case?

Could give a crap if the place you went to school lost a nickel fielding a tiddly-winks team.

Mr. Radio Dude,

EVERY comment that has been made here is pertinent to the Sandusky case. Broaden your mind and maybe you'll see that. In the meantime, if you don't like what you read, move along. It's really that simple. Or, here's an idea, make a well-thought out, meaningful contribution. Better yet, make one at the PSU board. I'm sure you'll find many like-minded people there.

Tiddly-Winks Team Captain

Exactly, JetMan.

Some people here just don't get it. Mike comes from a BBS which encourages verbal clutter and mental vagrancy.

Well put, my friend.

Edited July 15, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[Mike Schwartz]

  On 7/15/2012 at 1:27 AM, GoodSpeak said:

Where are the Mods?

  On 7/15/2012 at 1:10 AM, JETman said:

  On 7/15/2012 at 12:23 AM, Mike Schwartz said:

Does anyone want to make a comment that relates to Penn State and/or the Sandusky case?

Could give a crap if the place you went to school lost a nickel fielding a tiddly-winks team.

Mr. Radio Dude,

EVERY comment that has been made here is pertinent to the Sandusky case. Broaden your mind and maybe you'll see that. In the meantime, if you don't like what you read, move along. It's really that simple. Or, here's an idea, make a well-thought out, meaningful contribution. Better yet, make one at the PSU board. I'm sure you'll find many like-minded people there.

Tiddly-Winks Team Captain

Exactly, JetMan.

Some people here just don't get it. Mike comes from a BBS which encourages verbal clutter and mental vagrancy.

Well put, my friend.

Mr. Hijacking busy at work!!

That other BBS is the one at which you've been banned for life, right?

Edited July 15, 2012 by Mike Schwartz

[JSngry]

[JETman]

  On 7/15/2012 at 1:21 AM, Mike Schwartz said:

  On 7/15/2012 at 1:10 AM, JETman said:

  On 7/15/2012 at 12:23 AM, Mike Schwartz said:

Does anyone want to make a comment that relates to Penn State and/or the Sandusky case?

Could give a crap if the place you went to school lost a nickel fielding a tiddly-winks team.

Mr. Radio Dude,

EVERY comment that has been made here is pertinent to the Sandusky case. Broaden your mind and maybe you'll see that. In the meantime, if you don't like what you read, move along. It's really that simple. Or, here's an idea, make a well-thought out, meaningful contribution. Better yet, make one at the PSU board. I'm sure you'll find many like-minded people there.

Tiddly-Winks Team Captain

OK rollhead......wink, wink

Do you know what the Division 4 schools are? I wouldn't have been caught dead going to PSU!

[Dan Gould]

To his credit, Goodie has stopped defending Paterno.

To his embarrassment, baseball statistician Bill James has not.

Sample quote:

  Quote

“[Paterno] knew less about [sandusky] than everyone else there … He had very few allies. He was isolated. He was not nearly as powerful as people imagine him to have been … they kept it quiet because they had no idea what was happening … they just thought they were dealing with a little misunderstanding … people who are responsible for it are the media. The media created this smokescreen behind which Sandusky operated, and then they’re trying to blame Paterno.”

[Dave James]

  On 7/15/2012 at 2:59 AM, Dan Gould said:

To his embarrassment, baseball statistician Bill James has not.

Good with numbers. Obviously, not much else.

[Tim McG]

  On 7/15/2012 at 2:59 AM, Dan Gould said:

To his credit, Goodie has stopped defending Paterno.

To his embarrassment, baseball statistician Bill James has not.

Sample quote:

  Quote

“[Paterno] knew less about [sandusky] than everyone else there … He had very few allies. He was isolated. He was not nearly as powerful as people imagine him to have been … they kept it quiet because they had no idea what was happening … they just thought they were dealing with a little misunderstanding … people who are responsible for it are the media. The media created this smokescreen behind which Sandusky operated, and then they’re trying to blame Paterno.”

Thanks, Dan.

For the record, I never was defending Paterno. I was, however, attempting to focus on the difficulties in gaining a conviction of a pedophile, the manner in which that must be done and, at the time, with no tanigble evidence to accuse Paterno of anything beyond what some folks here think one man can do when the authorities dropped the charges.

Now that the Freeh Inquiry is out and with tangible evidence linking Paterno to the cover up, I am convinced he was a part of the whole thing.

You see, I don't make assumptions about anything or anybody without proof and because I don't some folks here [including the interlopers from another BBS] took that to mean I was this "ardent supporter" which I am not. Never have been. I mean, geez...I'm a Native Californian. Why in the hell would I even care about Big 10 football?

I do, however, care very deeply about students and the victims of child abuse. And if that's my crime, then you can hang my butt from the nearest flagpole.

Edited July 15, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[Mike Schwartz]

  On 7/15/2012 at 2:43 PM, GoodSpeak said:

  On 7/15/2012 at 2:59 AM, Dan Gould said:

To his credit, Goodie has stopped defending Paterno.

To his embarrassment, baseball statistician Bill James has not.

Sample quote:

  Quote

“[Paterno] knew less about [sandusky] than everyone else there … He had very few allies. He was isolated. He was not nearly as powerful as people imagine him to have been … they kept it quiet because they had no idea what was happening … they just thought they were dealing with a little misunderstanding … people who are responsible for it are the media. The media created this smokescreen behind which Sandusky operated, and then they’re trying to blame Paterno.”

Thanks, Dan.

For the record, I never was defending Paterno. I was, however, attempting to focus on the difficulties in gaining a conviction of a pedophile, the manner in which that must be done and, at the time, with no tanigble evidence to accuse Paterno of anything beyond what some folks here think one man can do when the authorities dropped the charges.

.

Now that the Freeh Inquiry is out and with tangible evidence linking Paterno to the cover up, I am convinced he was a part of the whole thing.

You see, I don't make assumptions about anything or anybody without proof and because I don't some folks here [including the interlopers from another BBS] took that to mean I was this "ardent supporter" which I am not. Never have been. I mean, geez...I'm a Native Californian. Why in the hell would I even care about Big 10 football?

I do, however, care very deeply about students and the victims of child abuse. And if that's my crime, then you can hang my butt from the nearest flagpole.

Clearly the *record* shows you defended Paterno to the hilt while mounting evidence of the types of discoveries the report announced have been lining up like waves. Anyone can see it at another BBS under "Goodbye Joepa" thread if one wants to kill some time.

This is not about you and your deep care of students, and so far as interlopers, did someone around here appoint you greeter? HA-HA!!

Where are the mods when you need them?

I have a right to be here like everybody else, except for this guy's harassing and challenging my participation here.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Mike Schwartz

[Dan Gould]

Actually we have Chuck for that.

[Mike Schwartz]

  On 7/15/2012 at 3:26 PM, Dan Gould said:

Actually we have Chuck for that.

Good!

Maybe we can have the other Bozo stand down......

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

  On 7/15/2012 at 2:43 PM, GoodSpeak said:

[including the interlopers from another BBS]

And if that's my crime, then you can hang my butt from the nearest flagpole.

M Schwartz is not an interloper. Make nice or you may not be able to post on this thread. And here I was having such a relaxing Sunday playing Words with Friends on the iPad. Ho hum.

  On 7/15/2012 at 3:29 PM, Mike Schwartz said:

Good!

Maybe we can have the other Bozo stand down......

Ahh, same thing I just said to Goodie. No personal attacks.

[Pete C]

Larry "Bozo" Harmon has expressed disappointment that "Bozo" has become a derogatory term.

[Pete C]

Mike, it's good to have your participation here, but I don't think belaboring old animosities advances anything. For argument's sake, I'll take the generous stance that Goodspeak had a higher standard for innocent until proven guilty in case of Paterno than many of us, but he has acknowledged the Freeh findings, so if we don't give him a break on this, then nobody has the right to change their mind when confronted with overwhelming evidence to rethink their skepticism.

[Mike Schwartz]

  On 7/15/2012 at 4:05 PM, Pete C said:

Mike, it's good to have your participation here, but I don't think belaboring old animosities advances anything. For argument's sake, I'll take the generous stance that Goodspeak had a higher standard for innocent until proven guilty in case of Paterno than many of us, but he has acknowledged the Freeh findings, so if we don't give him a break on this, then nobody has the right to change their mind when confronted with overwhelming evidence to rethink their skepticism.

I'm not being the 'belaborer' here; the guy lurks over at the other place and tries to get some form of *payback* on me here. WTF?

I do appreciate the point you've made.

[Pete C]

Edited July 15, 2012 by Pete C

[Tim McG]

  On 7/15/2012 at 3:19 PM, Mike Schwartz said:

  On 7/15/2012 at 2:43 PM, GoodSpeak said:

  On 7/15/2012 at 2:59 AM, Dan Gould said:

To his credit, Goodie has stopped defending Paterno.

To his embarrassment, baseball statistician Bill James has not.

Sample quote:

  Quote

“[Paterno] knew less about [sandusky] than everyone else there … He had very few allies. He was isolated. He was not nearly as powerful as people imagine him to have been … they kept it quiet because they had no idea what was happening … they just thought they were dealing with a little misunderstanding … people who are responsible for it are the media. The media created this smokescreen behind which Sandusky operated, and then they’re trying to blame Paterno.”

Thanks, Dan.

For the record, I never was defending Paterno. I was, however, attempting to focus on the difficulties in gaining a conviction of a pedophile, the manner in which that must be done and, at the time, with no tanigble evidence to accuse Paterno of anything beyond what some folks here think one man can do when the authorities dropped the charges.

.

Now that the Freeh Inquiry is out and with tangible evidence linking Paterno to the cover up, I am convinced he was a part of the whole thing.

You see, I don't make assumptions about anything or anybody without proof and because I don't some folks here [including the interlopers from another BBS] took that to mean I was this "ardent supporter" which I am not. Never have been. I mean, geez...I'm a Native Californian. Why in the hell would I even care about Big 10 football?

I do, however, care very deeply about students and the victims of child abuse. And if that's my crime, then you can hang my butt from the nearest flagpole.

Clearly the *record* shows you defended Paterno to the hilt while mounting evidence of the types of discoveries the report announced have been lining up like waves. Anyone can see it at another BBS under "Goodbye Joepa" thread if one wants to kill some time.

This is not about you and your deep care of students, and so far as interlopers, did someone around here appoint you greeter? HA-HA!!

Where are the mods when you need them?

I have a right to be here like everybody else, except for this guy's harassing and challenging my participation here.

And you also have the right to be wrong...again.

Hijacking this thread in an effort to turn it into a pissing contest speaks volumes on your intent, Mike.

Where, indeed, are the Mods when you need them?

[Tim McG]

  On 7/15/2012 at 1:40 AM, Mike Schwartz said:

  On 7/15/2012 at 1:27 AM, GoodSpeak said:

Where are the Mods?

  On 7/15/2012 at 1:10 AM, JETman said:

  On 7/15/2012 at 12:23 AM, Mike Schwartz said:

Does anyone want to make a comment that relates to Penn State and/or the Sandusky case?

Could give a crap if the place you went to school lost a nickel fielding a tiddly-winks team.

Mr. Radio Dude,

EVERY comment that has been made here is pertinent to the Sandusky case. Broaden your mind and maybe you'll see that. In the meantime, if you don't like what you read, move along. It's really that simple. Or, here's an idea, make a well-thought out, meaningful contribution. Better yet, make one at the PSU board. I'm sure you'll find many like-minded people there.

Tiddly-Winks Team Captain

Exactly, JetMan.

Some people here just don't get it. Mike comes from a BBS which encourages verbal clutter and mental vagrancy.

Well put, my friend.

Mr. Hijacking busy at work!!

That other BBS is the one at which you've been banned for life, right?

And at your behest, Mike.

Here, you actually have to tolerate opposing views, not insult them.

I left on my own terms by waving bye-bye with my verbal knuckles knowing full well what would happen. Best decision I ever made on the Web.

Now stay on topic.

Edited July 15, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[JSngry]