Sandusky Investigation Findings

[Blue Train]

Where are the Mods?

Does anyone want to make a comment that relates to Penn State and/or the Sandusky case?

Could give a crap if the place you went to school lost a nickel fielding a tiddly-winks team.

Mr. Radio Dude,

EVERY comment that has been made here is pertinent to the Sandusky case. Broaden your mind and maybe you'll see that. In the meantime, if you don't like what you read, move along. It's really that simple. Or, here's an idea, make a well-thought out, meaningful contribution. Better yet, make one at the PSU board. I'm sure you'll find many like-minded people there.

Tiddly-Winks Team Captain

Exactly, JetMan.

Some people here just don't get it. Mike comes from a BBS which encourages verbal clutter and mental vagrancy.

Well put, my friend.

Mr. Hijacking busy at work!!

That other BBS is the one at which you've been banned for life, right?

And at your behest, Mike.

Here, you actually have to tolerate opposing views, not insult them.

I left on my own terms by waving bye-bye with my verbal knuckles knowing full well what would happen. Best decision I ever made on the Web.

Now stay on topic.

Translation:

Here they have moderators. I can't act they way I did on a board I was banned twice before finally being banned for life.

I left on my own terms by insulting amongst other things other members manhood, intelligence and sexuality. Never mind how I treated the female members.

Now to on topic. Everyone knows just how much you were concerned about the victims in this case. There are two threads on two separate boards which you can't edit anything out to show just how much you cared.

You cared so much about the victims....Aggie87 had to ask you this.

"I hope you're quicker to report things when you find out about them than McQueary and Paterno were. For the victim's sakes."

Do you know what the Division 4 schools are?

You do realize there are no Division IV schools in College? There are however Division IV schools on the High School level in different states.

While I am at this...go back and read Mike Schwartz's posts. He made it very clear he wants the "Death Penalty" for Penn St's football program.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Blue Train

[JETman]

Take your own advice!

Where are the Mods?

Does anyone want to make a comment that relates to Penn State and/or the Sandusky case?

Could give a crap if the place you went to school lost a nickel fielding a tiddly-winks team.

Mr. Radio Dude,

EVERY comment that has been made here is pertinent to the Sandusky case. Broaden your mind and maybe you'll see that. In the meantime, if you don't like what you read, move along. It's really that simple. Or, here's an idea, make a well-thought out, meaningful contribution. Better yet, make one at the PSU board. I'm sure you'll find many like-minded people there.

Tiddly-Winks Team Captain

Exactly, JetMan.

Some people here just don't get it. Mike comes from a BBS which encourages verbal clutter and mental vagrancy.

Well put, my friend.

Mr. Hijacking busy at work!!

That other BBS is the one at which you've been banned for life, right?

And at your behest, Mike.

Here, you actually have to tolerate opposing views, not insult them.

I left on my own terms by waving bye-bye with my verbal knuckles knowing full well what would happen. Best decision I ever made on the Web.

Now stay on topic.

Translation:

Here they have moderators. I can't act they way I did on a board I was banned twice before finally being banned for life.

I left on my own terms by insulting amongst other things other members manhood, intelligence and sexuality. Never mind how I treated the female members.

Now to on topic. Everyone knows just how much you were concerned about the victims in this case. There are two threads which you can't edit anything out to show just how much you cared.

You cared so much about the victims....Aggie87 had to ask you this.

"I hope you're quicker to report things when you find out about them than McQueary and Paterno were. For the victim's sakes."

Do you know what the Division 4 schools are?

You do realize there are no Division IV schools in College? There are Division IV schools on the High School level in different states.

There absolutely are. Say the roman numerals "IV" once to yourself. If you still don't get it, try again!

[Tim McG]

Forget it, John.

Not worth the effort.

[Blue Train]

There absolutely are. Say the roman numerals "IV" once to yourself. If you still don't get it, try again!

I will give you points for that. Never heard it called Division 4 before.....and I have had and have family members who have gone, or are currently.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Blue Train

[Blue Train]

Sonnymax and others -- Since my posts yesterday here, I've talked to a professional in the field of human psychology, and he convincingly explained that your position is essentially correct and mine is essentially wrong. That is, pedophilia and homosexuality are fundamentally different kinds of behavior/states of being.

Where are the Mods?

Apologizing (see above).

Thank you for posting this.

I will be honest. I have avoided reading your posts. It's only when Sonnymax posted his response that I went back and read what you posted previously. I saw your posts and typed out four response that probably would have resulted in my being banned.

I am sure you can agree that homosexuals have to put up with enough hatred without that being added to it.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Blue Train

[JETman]

There absolutely are. Say the roman numerals "IV" once to yourself. If you still don't get it, try again!

I will give you points for that. Never heard it called Division 4 before.....and I have had and have family members who have gone, or are currently.

Where did you think the term "Ivy" came from???????

Can we all now agree that universities can be rich, well known, highly regarded and well attended (with waiting lists numbering in the thousands) without the need for a revenue generating sports program??????

[Larry Kart]

Sonnymax and others -- Since my posts yesterday here, I've talked to a professional in the field of human psychology, and he convincingly explained that your position is essentially correct and mine is essentially wrong. That is, pedophilia and homosexuality are fundamentally different kinds of behavior/states of being.

Apologizing (see above).

I think you could have come up with the same answer via a little judicious research yesterday.

No doubt. But I preferred to talk to a vastly experienced professional in the field whom I knew personally and therefore, because of his track record, felt I could trust, rather than take the word of authorities I don't know. Of course, one often is in the latter position of necessity, but this time I was not and decided I should take advantage of that fact.

[Mike Schwartz]

Paterno statue to remain...

The embattled members of Penn State's Board of Trustees quietly have decided to leave Joe Paterno's statue standing -- at least for now and, some hope, forever, according to sources with firsthand knowledge of the trustees' private discussions this week.

The trustees' reluctance to remove the statue is motivated, in part, by a desire not to offend alumni and students who adore the late coach despite the damning findings of his role in the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse cover-up detailed in the Freeh report, the sources said.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8166643/joe-paterno-statue-remain-penn-state-sources-say

[Blue Train]

There absolutely are. Say the roman numerals "IV" once to yourself. If you still don't get it, try again!

I will give you points for that. Never heard it called Division 4 before.....and I have had and have family members who have gone, or are currently.

Where did you think the term "Ivy" came from???????

Can we all now agree that universities can be rich, well known, highly regarded and well attended (with waiting lists numbering in the thousands) without the need for a revenue generating sports program??????

1. Not from IV or anything having to do with sports.

2. Yes, they can.

Paterno statue to remain...

The embattled members of Penn State's Board of Trustees quietly have decided to leave Joe Paterno's statue standing -- at least for now and, some hope, forever, according to sources with firsthand knowledge of the trustees' private discussions this week.

The trustees' reluctance to remove the statue is motivated, in part, by a desire not to offend alumni and students who adore the late coach despite the damning findings of his role in the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse cover-up detailed in the Freeh report, the sources said.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8166643/joe-paterno-statue-remain-penn-state-sources-say

They're going to hold out for as long as they can. Once all the criminal and civil cases (which could result in $50-100 million being paid.) are finished and whatever the NCAA decides....it will be interesting if there is even a building with Paterno attached to it.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Blue Train

[Blue Train]

"Saint" Paterno in action.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/14/sports/ncaafootball/joe-paterno-got-richer-contract-amid-jerry-sandusky-inquiry.html?pagewanted=all

[Pete C]

Some people won't trust anything from Wikipedia, nonetheless, one can check the footnotes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League#Origin_of_the_name

A common folk etymology attributes the name to the Roman numerals for four (IV), asserting that there was such a sports league originally with four members. The Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins helped to perpetuate this belief. The supposed "IV League" was formed over a century ago and consisted of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and a 4th school that varies depending on who is telling the story.[37][38][39] However, it is clear that Harvard, Princeton, Yale and Columbia met on November 23, 1876 at the so-called Massasoit Convention to decide on uniform rules for the emerging game of football, which rapidly spread.[40]

Personally, I think schools with a high incidence of heroin abuse should be called IV League.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Pete C

[Mike Schwartz]

"Saint" Paterno in action.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/14/sports/ncaafootball/joe-paterno-got-richer-contract-amid-jerry-sandusky-inquiry.html?pagewanted=all

I had seen this.

Get the golden parachute package in place before it gets really ugly.

[Blue Train]

"Saint" Paterno in action.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/14/sports/ncaafootball/joe-paterno-got-richer-contract-amid-jerry-sandusky-inquiry.html?pagewanted=all

I had seen this.

Get the golden parachute package in place before it gets really ugly.

Should be interesting to see how much the estate has left after the civil cases....especially with him being the reason there was a cover-up after 2001. You know everyone alive and facing criminal charges are going to dump even more on him.

Some people won't trust anything from Wikipedia, nonetheless, one can check the footnotes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League#Origin_of_the_name

A common folk etymology attributes the name to the Roman numerals for four (IV), asserting that there was such a sports league originally with four members. The Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins helped to perpetuate this belief. The supposed "IV League" was formed over a century ago and consisted of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and a 4th school that varies depending on who is telling the story.[37][38][39] However, it is clear that Harvard, Princeton, Yale and Columbia met on November 23, 1876 at the so-called Massasoit Convention to decide on uniform rules for the emerging game of football, which rapidly spread.[40]

Personally, I think schools with a high incidence of heroin abuse should be called IV League.

I stand corrected. It may or may not have had something to do with sports.

When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.

P.S. I still say they're not normally called Division 4 or if you want Division IV schools. haha

Edited July 15, 2012 by Blue Train

[Dave James]

As if we need it, here's more on the dark side of Joe Paterno.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/15/us/triponey-paterno-penn-state/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

[Pete C]

I stand corrected. It may or may not have had something to do with sports.

I highlighted the fact that it's a "folk etymology." If you click the link you'll get a more comprehensive discussion of the etymology.

[JETman]

Some people won't trust anything from Wikipedia, nonetheless, one can check the footnotes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League#Origin_of_the_name

A common folk etymology attributes the name to the Roman numerals for four (IV), asserting that there was such a sports league originally with four members. The Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins helped to perpetuate this belief. The supposed "IV League" was formed over a century ago and consisted of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and a 4th school that varies depending on who is telling the story.[37][38][39] However, it is clear that Harvard, Princeton, Yale and Columbia met on November 23, 1876 at the so-called Massasoit Convention to decide on uniform rules for the emerging game of football, which rapidly spread.[40]

Personally, I think schools with a high incidence of heroin abuse should be called IV League.

Not the complete story, but why should we expect anything more from someone whose hallowed halls were as close to Ivy as China is to Mexico.

[Mike Schwartz]

Some people won't trust anything from Wikipedia, nonetheless, one can check the footnotes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League#Origin_of_the_name

A common folk etymology attributes the name to the Roman numerals for four (IV), asserting that there was such a sports league originally with four members. The Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins helped to perpetuate this belief. The supposed "IV League" was formed over a century ago and consisted of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and a 4th school that varies depending on who is telling the story.[37][38][39] However, it is clear that Harvard, Princeton, Yale and Columbia met on November 23, 1876 at the so-called Massasoit Convention to decide on uniform rules for the emerging game of football, which rapidly spread.[40]

Personally, I think schools with a high incidence of heroin abuse should be called IV League.

Not the complete story, but why should we expect anything more from someone whose hallowed halls were as close to Ivy as China is to Mexico.

I thought we were all supposed to be on a personal insult time out

[seeline]

Sonnymax and others -- Since my posts yesterday here, I've talked to a professional in the field of human psychology, and he convincingly explained that your position is essentially correct and mine is essentially wrong. That is, pedophilia and homosexuality are fundamentally different kinds of behavior/states of being.

Apologizing (see above).

I think you could have come up with the same answer via a little judicious research yesterday.

No doubt. But I preferred to talk to a vastly experienced professional in the field whom I knew personally and therefore, because of his track record, felt I could trust, rather than take the word of authorities I don't know. Of course, one often is in the latter position of necessity, but this time I was not and decided I should take advantage of that fact.

No doubt you could have Googled the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria for pedophilia. It's not exactly unavailable on the web.

If you have never really dealt with the fallout from adults who prey on children for sex, then I apologize. But I think the ages of Sandusky's victims kind of spells things out. (8, 10, etc.)

Edited July 16, 2012 by seeline

[Larry Kart]

Sonnymax and others -- Since my posts yesterday here, I've talked to a professional in the field of human psychology, and he convincingly explained that your position is essentially correct and mine is essentially wrong. That is, pedophilia and homosexuality are fundamentally different kinds of behavior/states of being.

Apologizing (see above).

I think you could have come up with the same answer via a little judicious research yesterday.

No doubt. But I preferred to talk to a vastly experienced professional in the field whom I knew personally and therefore, because of his track record, felt I could trust, rather than take the word of authorities I don't know. Of course, one often is in the latter position of necessity, but this time I was not and decided I should take advantage of that fact.

No doubt you could have Googled the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria for pedophilia. It's not exactly unavailable on the web.

If you have never really dealt with the fallout from adults who prey on children for sex, then I apologize. But I think the ages of Sandusky's victims kind of spells things out. (8, 10, etc.)

Yes, but as I said, I preferred to talk to a real person in the field whom I knew and trusted and who also could respond to any questions I might want to ask. Further, while the iterations of the DSM over the years all strive to be "scientific," in some areas they also are or can be "political" (i.e. responsive to various societal pressures), and I wanted to talk to someone whom I thought would tell me the truth as he saw it regardless of whose nose might be put out of joint, my own included.

[JSngry]

Sonnymax and others -- Since my posts yesterday here, I've talked to a professional in the field of human psychology, and he convincingly explained that your position is essentially correct and mine is essentially wrong. That is, pedophilia and homosexuality are fundamentally different kinds of behavior/states of being.

Apologizing (see above).

I think you could have come up with the same answer via a little judicious research yesterday.

No doubt. But I preferred to talk to a vastly experienced professional in the field whom I knew personally and therefore, because of his track record, felt I could trust, rather than take the word of authorities I don't know. Of course, one often is in the latter position of necessity, but this time I was not and decided I should take advantage of that fact.

No doubt you could have Googled the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria for pedophilia. It's not exactly unavailable on the web.

If you have never really dealt with the fallout from adults who prey on children for sex, then I apologize. But I think the ages of Sandusky's victims kind of spells things out. (8, 10, etc.)

Yes, but as I said, I preferred to talk to a real person in the field whom I knew and trusted and who also could respond to any questions I might want to ask. Further, while the iterations of the DSM over the years all strive to be "scientific," in some areas they also are or can be "political" (i.e. responsive to various societal pressures), and I wanted to talk to someone whom I thought would tell me the truth as he saw it regardless of whose nose might be put out of joint, my own included.

Well, no doubt you could have just not done that and taken your beating like the insensitive oppressor you so clearly are. :g:g:g.

[seeline]

Sonnymax and others -- Since my posts yesterday here, I've talked to a professional in the field of human psychology, and he convincingly explained that your position is essentially correct and mine is essentially wrong. That is, pedophilia and homosexuality are fundamentally different kinds of behavior/states of being.

Apologizing (see above).

I think you could have come up with the same answer via a little judicious research yesterday.

No doubt. But I preferred to talk to a vastly experienced professional in the field whom I knew personally and therefore, because of his track record, felt I could trust, rather than take the word of authorities I don't know. Of course, one often is in the latter position of necessity, but this time I was not and decided I should take advantage of that fact.

No doubt you could have Googled the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria for pedophilia. It's not exactly unavailable on the web.

If you have never really dealt with the fallout from adults who prey on children for sex, then I apologize. But I think the ages of Sandusky's victims kind of spells things out. (8, 10, etc.)

Yes, but as I said, I preferred to talk to a real person in the field whom I knew and trusted and who also could respond to any questions I might want to ask. Further, while the iterations of the DSM over the years all strive to be "scientific," in some areas they also are or can be "political" (i.e. responsive to various societal pressures), and I wanted to talk to someone whom I thought would tell me the truth as he saw it regardless of whose nose might be put out of joint, my own included.

I understand that... I guess i have been all too aware of similar cases, for years, given what's been going on in the Roman Catholic church, for one thing.

And no, the DSM-whatever version isn't written in stone, but I think that sexually assaulting little kids (of either gender) speaks to not only something very dark but also to something that is very clearly pathological. (As well as, well... wrong.)

I also realize that not everyone has followed the grand jury presentment leak + arrest of Sandusky + Sandusky trial closely enough to be familiar with the victims' statements (both to the grand jury as well as in court during Sandusky's recent trial), but the victims all speak to the same pattern of actions on Sandusky's part. And several of them spoke of screaming for help (some while in Jerry and Dottie Sandusky's house, while Dottie Sandusky was upstairs and J. Sandusky was in the basement with the victims in question).

Some of the ugliest aspects of the case (and what the state grand jury is dealing with) have to do - very directly - with the fact that people at the highest levels of PSU's administration decided it would not be "humane" to pursue any kind of responsible actions against Sandusky, even though they clearly knew that he was molesting kids on campus.

Those administrators (I'm including Joe Paterno in this, not just Spanier, Curley and Schulz) effectively enabled Sandusky's continued predation on children. For years - in fact, for well over a decade.

So did the board of The Second Mile, which declared the 1998 case to be a "non-issue."

There is so much culpability here it's not funny. But the typical response (as with the reports of pedophiles in the RC church and in other churches) was not only to circle the wagons around the predator, but to attempt to actively discredit anyone's attempts at bringing things to light. The amount of hostility directed toward Sarah Ganim (reporter for the Harrisburg Patriot, 22 years old when she 1st broke the story about Sandusky and suspicions of his assaults back in 2009) was vicious. Because you do NOT criticize either the football coaches (past and present) or the supposedly wonderful charity that one of those coaches has founded.... one that has branches throughout the state and that worked very closely with the foster care system and with social work and mental health professionals.

Nobody's supposed to rock the boat.

it's worth noting that Sandusky's defense team tried to subpoena Ganim during the trial. She (all of 24 now!) said she would go to jail rather than reveal her sources; her paper backed her and the defense lawyers (who also tried to pull off their own DSM-IV-style coup to discredit the "pedophilia" diagnosis) had to back down.

Honestly, the level of belief that neither Sandusky or Paterno were guilty of any wrongdoing is still very high, though I suspect that the Freeh report is getting to some of the hardcore Sandusky/Paterno supporters.

In the meantime, the state grand jury investigation is still under way, and apparently a federal grand jury investigation has been convened as well. That the public knows anything at all about the state grand jury presentment is due to a leak.

No doubt there will be more of them (leaks), as with some of the emails cited in the Freeh report.

The grand jury's presentment isn't very long, and is available on most PA-based news sites. (Like the one I linked to a few pages back, pennlive.com). The Freeh report is a tome, though, and I haven't read it yet.

Edited July 16, 2012 by seeline

[alocispepraluger102]

goodness amid evil at penn state

“It was about these norms of society that I’m talking about: that every adult has a responsibility for every other child in our community,” Kenneth C. Frazier said. “And that we have a responsibility not to do the minimum, the legal requirement. We have a responsibility for ensuring that we can take every effort that’s within our power not only to prevent further harm to that child, but to every other child.”

[Soulstation1]

Victims from the 1970s are surfacing

[seeline]

Victims from the 1970s are surfacing

No surprise there, I think.

[seeline]

Paterno family statement re. conducting their own investigation (!!!) because they will not accept Freeh's findings:

http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/16/3262663/members-of-joe-paterno-family.html