harry allen- tenor saxophone

[alocispepraluger102]

i couldn't find an o thread about harry allen, a remarkable contemporary virtuoso. in this article harry states some very personal and self assured points of view.

"I have a little bit of a recognition problem because some of my recordings are not being released in the States," answered Allen after he played a blistering set as a member of Howard Alden's East Coast All-Stars at the Sacramento Jazz Jubilee this past Memorial Day weekend. "I've been very lucky to be with a major record label for the last ten years, BMG Japan. There are very few jazz artists these days that have record contracts. BMG here in the USA released a few of my records before they decided to get out of the jazz business. As a result, a lot of my records have not been released in the United States."

harry allen

"One thing I think about is the music I play is happy music," Allen said. "It's happier and it makes people feel good. So, maybe for that reason it has endured longer. Time will tell."

"I don't agree that music should be innovative," Allen said. "Music should be 'inventive,' and it should be good. Some of the people, especially these days, try to be innovative without being good. What I try to do is to be good. I try to be inventive. I don't want to be a 'lick' player who regurgitates licks that I've learned. I try to be inventive and truly improvise and to be good. If innovation comes, it comes. If it doesn't, it doesn't. It's like what Count Basie said, 'If innovation is thought about, it's no good. It either happens or it doesn't.' I personally haven't heard any innovator in jazz live in my life time. Who was the last innovation in jazz? Eric Dolphy? Who since then? Nobody has found much new to do. Maybe somebody will. I hope somebody will. More than that, I hope if they do, that it's good."

What Allen has found playing at these jazz clubs are patrons who do not necessarily always clamor for more "modern" approaches to jazz, he said.

"I don't think the people want to hear that stuff," Allen said. "There are some great musicians who play modern music and they have wonderful fan bases, but so do we. There is every bit of an audience, if not more of an audience, for the type of jazz that I play."

"I have a picture of my sister and I sitting on Paul's lap taken at one of the Disneyland concerts," Allen said. "Paul was very much underrated. He was great as anybody." (Gonzalves died in 1974.)

"I think my two major influences now would be Ben Webster and Stan Getz," Allen said. "I have a lot of other influences as well. There's Zoot, Al (Cohn), Illinois Jacquet, Lester Young and Flip Phillips. Flip was another tenor play that was underrated."

"I sort of have a look that conveys I would bite someone's head off if they came up to talk to me," Allen confessed. "People have told me I have a very serious look on my face. I don't feel that I do, but I've been told that."

"Joe Cohn has the fastest ears of anyone I've ever seen," Allen said. "Like I said, I think music should be inventive. We have some arrangements, but most of the time our arrangements consist of me coming up with an arrangement on the spot, with Joe following me. I can play something as complicated as I want and he'll be right there following me as if we had written down. I have perfect pitch, which helps with that. When the notes come out, I hear what they are. Joe doesn't have perfect pitch but he has every bit as good an ear. It's really quite amazing. I'll play some sort of shout chorus and he'll play it right with me in harmony."

Edited July 1, 2012 by alocispepraluger102

[BillF]

Harry Allen has many followers over here and is one of several "middle-of-the road" American musicians who have recorded with Britain's Alan Barnes:

http://www.alanbarnesjazz.com/barnestorming/

[alocispepraluger102]

Harry Allen has many followers over here and is one of several "middle-of-the road" American musicians who have recorded with Britain's Alan Barnes:

http://www.alanbarnesjazz.com/barnestorming/

that review nailed it.

thanks for the cd tips.

[John Tapscott]

Here's a nice one:

[A Lark Ascending]

I really like Allen's playing as part of a broad, balanced diet. This record is gorgeous:

I can see exactly where he's coming from in the red bit - I suspect he's come in from a fair bit of a hammering from critics who expect musicians to constantly remake the world.

Thank the lord there are musicians who feel driven to constantly want to remake the world; but not everyone wants to hear that, certainly not all the time. People like Allen and Barnes provide a different experience. I find that just as pleasurable.

[alocispepraluger102]

I really like Allen's playing as part of a broad, balanced diet. This record is gorgeous:

I can see exactly where he's coming from in the red bit - I suspect he's come in from a fair bit of a hammering from critics who expect musicians to constantly remake the world.

Thank the lord there are musicians who feel driven to constantly want to remake the world; but not everyone wants to hear that, certainly not all the time. People like Allen and Barnes provide a different experience. I find that just as pleasurable.

thank god for all of them.

how lucky are we who appreciate them all, or at least, most.

[Larry Kart]

What I've heard of Allen's playing almost makes me physically ill. At least initially, he was a straight cop of "Long Island Sound" Getz, with a fair bit of what used to be called "hotel tenor" thrown in, the Getz model being denatured a good deal and significantly "lickified" (my coinage). It's not that Allen is not original that mostly bothers me; it's that even granting him his models, he is, by comparison, so bland and miniaturized. I probably can't, and have no great desire to, convince otherwise anyone who likes Allen. All I would hope that those who have an understandable fondness for older styles on particular instruments be aware of (what I see as) the difference between players on those instruments who are significantly inspired by those styles and proceed to invent in a personal manner (Grant Stewart for example, IMO) and those who do what IMO Allen does. To borrow the title of movie I saw a few days ago, his solos are like "tiny furniture." Hearing Allen live once with Randy Sandke, I could pretty much tell how each phrase would go before he played it. This is a good thing?

[jlhoots]

I don't have a problem with Harry Allen.

There's a new duo album with Ehud Asherie that's nice.

[Larry Kart]

An IMO revealing (and I think not unfair) comparison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRWw_GouRmU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RiPImaH9ug&feature=related

[A Lark Ascending]

[BillF]

[Larry Kart]

Even (or perhaps especially) this from a Grant Stewart album that's dedicated to Rollins speaks of the IMO significant differences I mentioned above:

[Larry Kart]

Remember it well. I'm in the car on the right.

[A Lark Ascending]

This is another nice one:

1. Cherokee

2. Roses of Picardy

3. Just in Time

4. These Foolish Things

5. I Hadn't Anyone Till You

6. You're Blasé

7. Limehouse Blues

8. A Nightingale Sang in Berkely Square

9. Got a Date with an Angel

10. The Very Thought of You

Not having grown up in the era when those were fresh there's only a couple I associate with Britain - the rest always seem like standard jazz vehicles.

Remember it well. I'm in the car on the right.

And he backed into you? Now I get it.

[John Tapscott]

I really like Allen's playing as part of a broad, balanced diet. This record is gorgeous:

I can see exactly where he's coming from in the red bit - I suspect he's come in from a fair bit of a hammering from critics who expect musicians to constantly remake the world.

Thank the lord there are musicians who feel driven to constantly want to remake the world; but not everyone wants to hear that, certainly not all the time. People like Allen and Barnes provide a different experience. I find that just as pleasurable.

Very well stated. I totally agree.

Here's one that will drive Larry 'round the bend.

[Larry Kart]

This is another nice one:

1. Cherokee

2. Roses of Picardy

3. Just in Time

4. These Foolish Things

5. I Hadn't Anyone Till You

6. You're Blasé

7. Limehouse Blues

8. A Nightingale Sang in Berkely Square

9. Got a Date with an Angel

10. The Very Thought of You

Not having grown up in the era when those were fresh there's only a couple I associate with Britain - the rest always seem like standard jazz vehicles.

Remember it well. I'm in the car on the right.

And he backed into you? Now I get it.

No I smashed into him.

Speaking of Asherie and Allen, while I like Asherie, Allen's solo with Ehud here exemplifies the creepy predictability of Allen's thinking IMO:

[Pete C]

First time I saw him was at a JATP-style jam session at the Umbria Jazz Festival. The other tenor was Eric Alexander. I much preferred Allen's thoughtful, lyrical approach to Alexander's flash and filigree.

[Larry Kart]

First time I saw him was at a JATP-style jam session at the Umbria Jazz Festival. The other tenor was Eric Alexander. I much preferred Allen's thoughtful, lyrical approach to Alexander's flash and filigree.

Allen and Alexander -- strychnine and arsenic. I can't decide which to drink.

[John Tapscott]

These are my favorite Allen recordings:

[BillF]

First time I saw him was at a JATP-style jam session at the Umbria Jazz Festival. The other tenor was Eric Alexander. I much preferred Allen's thoughtful, lyrical approach to Alexander's flash and filigree.

Allen and Alexander -- strychnine and arsenic. I can't decide which to drink.

With Scott Hamilton as hemlock, just in case the other two don't do the trick.

[alocispepraluger102]

allen gets $20 each for his recordings at live gigs. that's the most i know of with jazz cats.

[alocispepraluger102]

This is another nice one:

1. Cherokee

2. Roses of Picardy

3. Just in Time

4. These Foolish Things

5. I Hadn't Anyone Till You

6. You're Blasé

7. Limehouse Blues

8. A Nightingale Sang in Berkely Square

9. Got a Date with an Angel

10. The Very Thought of You

Not having grown up in the era when those were fresh there's only a couple I associate with Britain - the rest always seem like standard jazz vehicles.

Remember it well. I'm in the car on the right.

And he backed into you? Now I get it.

No I smashed into him.

Speaking of Asherie and Allen, while I like Asherie, Allen's solo with Ehud here exemplifies the creepy predictability of Allen's thinking IMO:

that's a fair observation, but harry has mastered his craft more than well.

[Larry Kart]

This is another nice one:

1. Cherokee

2. Roses of Picardy

3. Just in Time

4. These Foolish Things

5. I Hadn't Anyone Till You

6. You're Blasé

7. Limehouse Blues

8. A Nightingale Sang in Berkely Square

9. Got a Date with an Angel

10. The Very Thought of You

Not having grown up in the era when those were fresh there's only a couple I associate with Britain - the rest always seem like standard jazz vehicles.

Remember it well. I'm in the car on the right.

And he backed into you? Now I get it.

No I smashed into him.

Speaking of Asherie and Allen, while I like Asherie, Allen's solo with Ehud here exemplifies the creepy predictability of Allen's thinking IMO:

that's a fair observation, but harry has mastered his craft more than well.

If it's fair to say that Allen's thinking here is creepily predictable, in what sense has he "mastered his craft more than well"? Again, I think of what used to be called "hotel tenor." The craft that such players ply is indeed a craft, but it's not the same craft, I think, that just about any jazz musician I can think of aspires to master. Seems to me that you're setting the bar very low -- not much above the level of "he can play the instrument." That I'll grant, but is this what we've come to settle for?

[alocispepraluger102]

This is another nice one:

1. Cherokee

2. Roses of Picardy

3. Just in Time

4. These Foolish Things

5. I Hadn't Anyone Till You

6. You're Blasé

7. Limehouse Blues

8. A Nightingale Sang in Berkely Square

9. Got a Date with an Angel

10. The Very Thought of You

Not having grown up in the era when those were fresh there's only a couple I associate with Britain - the rest always seem like standard jazz vehicles.

Remember it well. I'm in the car on the right.

And he backed into you? Now I get it.

No I smashed into him.

Speaking of Asherie and Allen, while I like Asherie, Allen's solo with Ehud here exemplifies the creepy predictability of Allen's thinking IMO:

that's a fair observation, but harry has mastered his craft more than well.

If it's fair to say that Allen's thinking here is creepily predictable, in what sense has he "mastered his craft more than well"? Again, I think of what used to be called "hotel tenor." The craft that such players ply is indeed a craft, but it's not the same craft, I think, that just about any jazz musician I can think of aspires to master. Seems to me that you're setting the bar very low -- not much above the level of "he can play the instrument." That I'll grant, but is this what we've come to settle for?

of course, i do not even question whether it is the music you and i would refer to as jazz. making jazz technical moves is not jazz, nor is trying to be 'creative' without foundation.

i think of an allen gig as a performance. we can agree that he has mastered that craft.

that being said, i would suggest that allen deserves wider popularity in his native country. the public musical taste isn't that sophisticated, is it?

really fine jazz is a tough tough league, and i, a novice, wouldn't likely know it if i heard it.

Edited July 1, 2012 by alocispepraluger102

[mikeweil]

Anyone remember the hot discussion when a track from what could be taken as Harry Allen's Stan Getz tribute was included in a Blindfold Test?

IMHO this album shows a thorough knowledge of Brazilian music, deeper than Getz' when he recorded his first bossa nova albums (as great as he was), and indeed shows an inventive approach. When I remind myself how many saxists copy John Coltrane or Joe Henderson or Ernie Watts or Michael Brecker licks, I can't blame him. He does it well.

I saw Scott Hamilton live last year and was disappointed, one lame quote from older players after the next, without any trace of the fire of the originals. On that Allen CD pictured, I hear a lot of fire. There's room for many ways of playing jazz

Edited July 1, 2012 by mikeweil