The Elusive Girl From Ipanema

[seeline]

iirc, this gent - Pery Ribeiro - was the 1st to record the song.

I love his phrasing.

[mikeweil]

That's great!!! I hope my band fellows will read this thread and watch this! That's what it is about!

[jazztrain]

Whatever happened to fact checking?

FWIW, the Laurindo Almeida Quartet sessions with Bud Shank on Pacific Jazz came out long before the later efforts by Charlie Byrd and by Stan Getz.

"Desafinado" and the "Jazz Samba" album by Getz & Byrd were pretty popular in the US and appeared some months or a year before the girl.

They state that in the article: "At the time, bossa nova wasn't exactly unknown in the U.S., as shown by the Grammy-winning success of "Desafinado" from the 1962 album "Jazz Samba" by Stan Getz and Charlie Parker." They obviously mistook Charlie Byrd for Charlie "Bird" Parker.

[Jim R]

Bossa Nova didn't exist in 1953-54, when the Shank/Almeida sessions were recorded. Theirs was an early fusion of jazz and brazilian elements (Almeida was a composer of brazilian folk music, or choros, at that time), and had some influence in terms of the origins of Bossa, but it shouldn't be considered the origin.

Shank talks about it here: http://www.jazzwax.com/2008/04/bud-shank-bossa.html

[seeline]

Charlie Byrd was on a State Department-sponsored tour to Brazil and really *was* ahead of Getz (and others) in bringing word of bossa nova here, as well as in playing it.

He never got much recognition for that, but he never made a big deal about not getting proper credit, either.

IIRC he made a deal about not getting co-leader royalties for the Lp.

Which I think he should have, but I guess you can tell that I lived in the D.C. area for a while...

*

All the sources that I know of (McGowan & Pessanha's The Brazilian Sound, Ruy Castro's book on bossa nova, and others in Portuguese) put the date(s) for the beginning of bossa nova in the late 1950s, though it's not entirely clear - to anyone, I think - when the style actually coalesced.

I would need to check elsewhere for the dates of the State Department tour that Byrd was on.

*

About the Almeida-Shank recordings, McGowan & Pessanha say that Almeida's L.A. trio (started in 1952) "added jazz edges to choro, samba and baião."

And

Almeida and Shank's "jazz-samba" was not bossa nova...; it lacked the characteristic João Gilberto [guitar] beat, the harmonic stamp of Jobim and others, and the economy of expression achieve by bossa. Quite simply, it had a different mood and sound. But Almeida and Shank's work was certainly valuable in its own right.

Edited July 3, 2012 by seeline

[Teasing the Korean]

I've read differing opinions on the degree to which the Shank/Almeida album influenced bossa. Was the album released in Brazil? Ruy Castro details how Brazilian scenesters were obsessed with Stan Kenton, and considering that Almeida was Brazilian and a Kenton alum, I'm guessing that at least a few in-the-know hipsters must have heard this album. Even if it simply pointed the way to a jazz/Brasil hybrid - and one that would have potential outside of Brasil - it must have fed into the zeitgeist, if nothing else.

[GA Russell]

TTK, a few years ago I read (I'm pretty sure it was an interview with Jobim) that Jobim was well aware of the Almeida/Shank albums and that they were great influences.

In the 60s the American jazz press universally said that the start of bossa nova was the Black Orpheus soundtrack. It's been years since I've read that, and maybe people don't think so anymore.

[seeline]

TTK, a few years ago I read (I'm pretty sure it was an interview with Jobim) that Jobim was well aware of the Almeida/Shank albums and that they were great influences.

In the 60s the American jazz press universally said that the start of bossa nova was the Black Orpheus soundtrack. It's been years since I've read that, and maybe people don't think so anymore.

I think the soundtrack was the start of the popularity of some of the newer music outside of Brazil, or at least one of the points at which people first became aware of it.

As for Jobim and some others knowing the Shank (etc.) recordings, it seems pretty likely. But I'm reserving judgement as to how much influence they might (or might not) have had; am not sure there are any hard and fast answers to that.

Edited July 22, 2012 by seeline

[GA Russell]

Here is yesterday's AP article about the fiftieth anniversary of The Girl from Ipanema.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/20/the-girl-from-ipanema-turns-50/?page=all#pagebreak

[Bluesnik]

There's nothing like the real thing, and that applies to the whole genre of Bossa Nova.

completely agree with that and i think i said it here before. i don't like the american versions of many brasilian albums nor much less those made specifically for the US market. they were made for the american market only, and they don't translate the original songs correctly (they add nasty orchestrations or are oversugared or don't translate the balanco). but it always has to be said that in many cases it was in the brasilian musicians interest to be sucessful in america, after the sergio mendes mould.

[Pete C]

Time seems to have been very kind to her.

Still tall, tan & lovely.

Gilberto's single of Chega de Saudade is generally considered the first true bossa nova record to be released, and Elizete Cardoso (the voice of Euridice in Black Orpheus) recorded the first full album of bossa, Cancao do Amor Demais.

[Elis] certainly had fun with the English-language section.

I think she's making fun of Astrud.

iirc, this gent - Pery Ribeiro - was the 1st to record the song.

Great voice. Ribeiro & Johnny Alf, and later Emilio Santiago have those great baritone crooner voices that are a contrast to Joao Gilberto's sensual whisper.

In the 60s the American jazz press universally said that the start of bossa nova was the Black Orpheus soundtrack. It's been years since I've read that, and maybe people don't think so anymore.

IIRC, the music in the film is presented in pretty much pure samba style rather than the modified bossa style, then many of the songs became bossa nova staples as interpreted by Joao Gilberto and others, but I'll have to listen to the soundtrack to test my memory.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Pete C

[Teasing the Korean]

There's nothing like the real thing, and that applies to the whole genre of Bossa Nova.

completely agree with that and i think i said it here before. i don't like the american versions of many brasilian albums nor much less those made specifically for the US market. they were made for the american market only, and they don't translate the original songs correctly (they add nasty orchestrations or are oversugared or don't translate the balanco). but it always has to be said that in many cases it was in the brasilian musicians interest to be sucessful in america, after the sergio mendes mould.

The American, Verve version of bossa - to say nothing of the Italian, German or French takes - are not "bossa" in a pure sense, but they convey an air of young jet-setting international decadence that the Brasilians could never pull off, at least not until the very late 60s or early 70s, so they are invaluable for that very reason. They are like walking into a 1967 issue of Playboy or French Vogue. The international interpretations of bossa created a new subgenre and a new aesthetic that exists on its own plane. I would never give up any Piero Umiliani, Piero Piccioni, Michel Legrand, MPS or Verve bossa records.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Teasing the Korean

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

...they convey an air of young jet-setting international decadence...

:wub:

...that the Brasilians could never pull off, at least not until the very late 60s or early 70s, so they are invaluable for that very reason. They are like walking into a 1967 issue of Playboy or French Vogue. The international interpretations of bossa created a new subgenre and a new aesthetic that exists on its own plane. I would never give up any Piero Umiliani, Piero Piccioni, Michel Legrand, MPS or Verve bossa records.

And you are invaluable for your unique perspective TTK.

MG

[Pete C]

I've never cared for bossaized versions of the Great American Songbook. Except maybe Joao doing S'Wonderful, and his version of All of Me with Caetano, Gil & Gal, but not sure if that's even an attempt at bossa.

[Big Beat Steve]

Agreed with MG. Your perspective, TTK, is a very interesting one that really nails it. Bossa Nova as played by non-Brazilians in those 60s has become a genre all of its own that conveys mooods and images that are different from those conveyed by the true Brazilian (folk) artists. Folk purists may call them "watered down" but IMO they do manage to stand on their own. I wouldn't dare to compare or rate both of them but IMHO there is a place even for that "air of young jet-setting international decadence" (60s Latin lounge music, to put it more bluntly ).

[JSngry]

I've been spending some serious casual time on road trips listening to Sergio Mendes' prime A&M records, and as well-crafted, sensitively interpreted Brazilian-Flavored American Pop Music, there's no fault to be found and much pleasure to be derived.

It is what it is, and it ain't what it ain't. Proceed accordingly, ya' know?

[Pete C]

I think my love for Brazilian music dates from the Brasil 66 hit of Mas Que Nada. Their Beatles, S&G etc. covers were fun.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Pete C

[seeline]

There's nothing like the real thing, and that applies to the whole genre of Bossa Nova.

completely agree with that and i think i said it here before. i don't like the american versions of many brasilian albums nor much less those made specifically for the US market. they were made for the american market only, and they don't translate the original songs correctly (they add nasty orchestrations or are oversugared or don't translate the balanco). but it always has to be said that in many cases it was in the brasilian musicians interest to be sucessful in america, after the sergio mendes mould.

Very much agreed. One album that I really have difficulty with is "Cannonball's Bossa Nova." He and the all-Brazilian rhythm section are on two different planets, pretty much... If he had worked with them, it could have been a great album.

I think she's making fun of Astrud.

To some extent, yes, but the way she phrases that part is (imo) more of a satire of all the English-language "lounge"-type recordings of the song that had been made to date. There's no balanço; everything is deliberately right on the beat.

IIRC, the music in the film is presented in pretty much pure samba style rather than the modified bossa style, then many of the songs became bossa nova staples as interpreted by Joao Gilberto and others, but I'll have to listen to the soundtrack to test my memory.

I'd have to go back and listen to it again to confirm - but I think that a case can be made for the soundtrack as an intro. to a lot of the composers/lyricists and their work. That + João Gilberto = popularity. (Which is what I was trying to convey earlier, albeit in a less nuanced and maybe inaccurate way.)

Something that I didn't realize until I started spending lots of time listening to Brazilian music is that JG loves to sing sambas from the 30s and 40s. Many songs that we think of as "bossa nova" are actually not... "Doralice," "Pra que discutir com Madame," "Falsa baiana" and lots more.

Edited July 27, 2012 by seeline