School Bus Monitor Harassment

[Dave James]

I went to private, parochial grade and high schools, one Episcopalian, one Catholic, and I don't ever recall a single incident of what's now referred to as bullying. Just didn't happen. First of all, the schools I went to wouldn't have tolerated it. In high school, you were so freaked out by the Vice Principal in charge of discipline (who I'm still convinced was a sadist) that you absolutely towed the line every single minute you were on campus. Point being, environment and an unfettered ability to respond appropriately to unacceptable behavior plays a significant role in managing children's actions. In this day and age when everyone's hands are tied and you can't even look sideways at a kid, this is what you get. It's real simple. Consequences create accountability.

[sonnymax]

You're being awfully defensive.

Me, defensive? Actually, blaming is a defensive behavior. Calling someone out on their defensive behavior, as I've done here, is something different.

Who do you blame??? Or are all 3 groups (parents, kids, psychologists) just perfect.

I don't blame anyone. It's nonproductive, encourages defensiveness, and makes it more difficult for individuals with influence to assume responsibility.

I've read plenty in my 30+ years of medical practice. You should follow the advice in your last sentence (read, learn, etc.).

Reading isn't the same thing as learning, obviously. I would have expected someone with all those years of "medical practice" to communicate in a more thoughtful and responsible manner. Labeling, overgeneralizing, and blaming hardly seem "professional".

For what it's worth, I'll stack my 20+ years as a clinical psychologist, working with teenagers, parents, families, schools, courts, etc., against your professional experience, any day. That doesn't mean my ideas and opinions are necessarily better, correct, or definitive. But my views do have the benefit of education, training, and most importantly - actual clinical experience.

Parents need to start acting like parents again & (some) psychologists need to stop with all of the encouragement of many types of permissive parenting.

I don't believe "bad parenting" is about leniency or permissiveness anymore than "good parenting" is about being strict. From my observations and working with parents and their kids, effective parenting has a lot to do with being clear, consistent, rational, and fair in teaching children about life and their place in it (including rights and responsibilities). Of course, it means saying "no" whenever it's appropriate, but it's much more than that. Even a young child can say "no", just ask any parent of a 2-year-old. I believe it's how you deal with situations after saying "no" (or "yes" for that matter) that is likely to have a more lasting influence on a child, or a person of any age for that matter.

Horrible incidents like the one described in the OP naturally elicit strong emotional reactions and a tendency to label and blame individuals so we can assign guilt and lessen our personal discomfort. However, the seriousness of situations like this call for openness, understanding, and thoughtful, effective responses that help resolve the problems that contribute to such tragedies. These are my thoughts, anyway.

Edited June 22, 2012 by sonnymax

[Tim McG]

...The kids with the most self esteem,for example, are often the most anti-social & entitled...

Sheer, utter nonsense. You blame one group (psychologists), then another (parents), and then another (children with self-esteem). It's obvious you have little understanding about the different factors that influence individual and group behavior. Please stop blaming and labeling and instead read, learn, and broaden your understanding.

You're being awfully defensive.

Who do you blame??? Or are all 3 groups (parents, kids, psychologists) just perfect.

I've read plenty in my 30+ years of medical practice.

You should follow the advice in your last sentence (read, learn, etc.).

Parents need to start acting like parents again & (some) psychologists need to stop with all of the encouragement of many types of permissive parenting.

Hm.

I read this and immediately wondered, "Why are you attempting to fix blame?"

Secondarily, I really don't get the "self-esteem" argument. You would rather kids were all maniacally depressed or potential suicide victims instead?

The point I think you are missing is the media and poor parenting along with a healthy dash of mimicking bad behavior exhibited by schoolmates with the same poor parenting and media influences are causing the bullying behavior. Socio-economic strata, psychological interventions have very little to do with this phenomena.

Theory is never the same as real-world experiences, my friend. My 30+ years in the classroom will trump any reading along those lines.

Edited June 22, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[Pete C]

I was unaware of the conspiracy of psychologists.

[cih]

I found the film unsurprising, there was regularly similar (and worse) cruelty at my school

[WD45]

Speaking of big bands, if only Buddy Rich had been on board THIS bus.

[JSngry]

Speaking of big bands, if only Buddy Rich had been on board THIS bus.

EX-cellent!!!

[Tim McG]

You're being awfully defensive.

Me, defensive? Actually, blaming is a defensive behavior. Calling someone out on their defensive behavior, as I've done here, is something different.

Who do you blame??? Or are all 3 groups (parents, kids, psychologists) just perfect.

I don't blame anyone. It's nonproductive, encourages defensiveness, and makes it more difficult for individuals with influence to assume responsibility.

I've read plenty in my 30+ years of medical practice. You should follow the advice in your last sentence (read, learn, etc.).

Reading isn't the same thing as learning, obviously. I would have expected someone with all those years of "medical practice" to communicate in a more thoughtful and responsible manner. Labeling, overgeneralizing, and blaming hardly seem "professional".

For what it's worth, I'll stack my 20+ years as a clinical psychologist, working with teenagers, parents, families, schools, courts, etc., against your professional experience, any day. That doesn't mean my ideas and opinions are necessarily better, correct, or definitive. But my views do have the benefit of education, training, and most importantly - actual clinical experience.

Parents need to start acting like parents again & (some) psychologists need to stop with all of the encouragement of many types of permissive parenting.

I don't believe "bad parenting" is about leniency or permissiveness anymore than "good parenting" is about being strict. From my observations and working with parents and their kids, effective parenting has a lot to do with being clear, consistent, rational, and fair in teaching children about life and their place in it (including rights and responsibilities). Of course, it means saying "no" whenever it's appropriate, but it's much more than that. Even a young child can say "no", just ask any parent of a 2-year-old. I believe it's how you deal with situations after saying "no" (or "yes" for that matter) that is likely to have a more lasting influence on a child, or a person of any age for that matter.

Horrible incidents like the one described in the OP naturally elicit strong emotional reactions and a tendency to label and blame individuals so we can assign guilt and lessen our personal discomfort. However, the seriousness of situations like this call for openness, understanding, and thoughtful, effective responses that help resolve the problems that contribute to such tragedies. These are my thoughts, anyway.

Well put, SonnyMax.

No simple answers here.

I was unaware of the conspiracy of psychologists.

Me either.

I blame congress.

[JSngry]

Things haven't been the same since Elvis.

[David Ayers]

Things haven't been the same since Elvis.

I blame the internet.

[Tim McG]

Things haven't been the same since Elvis.

I blame the internet.

Fried peanut butter sandwiches notwithstanding.

Edited June 22, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[JSngry]

Things haven't been the same since Elvis joined the army.

[RDK]

I feel the need to blame Facebook.

[Pete C]

[jlhoots]

One last comment & then I'm done (with this topic).

Sonnymax appears to be from the Dr. Spock school of child psychologists, which may be fine for him. I hope that all of your patients are benefiting from their kids co-sleeping with them.

I prefer John Rosemond. That's so you know where I'm coming from.

BTW, You don't need to insult me by putting medical practice in quotes. You know nothing about me & I'd prefer to keep it that way.

You've just become the 2nd member to be on my ignore list in 9 years.

Life's too short.

http://www.rosemond.com/

Edited June 23, 2012 by jlhoots

[sonnymax]

One last comment & then I'm done (with this topic).

Sonnymax appears to be from the Dr. Spock school of child psychologists, which may be fine for him. I hope that all of your patients are benefiting from their kids co-sleeping with them.

I prefer John Rosemond. That's so you know where I'm coming from.

BTW, You don't need to insult me by putting medical practice in quotes. You know nothing about me & I'd prefer to keep it that way.

http://www.rosemond.com/

You are as clueless about me and my therapeutic approaches as you are about the issues we've been discussing so far on this thread. Read (slowly) my last post and understand that I'm in the cognitive-behavioral/rational-reality therapy/solution-focused camp for a majority of my clinical cases. Citing John Rosemond, that bible-thumping political conservative who argues against research into childhood disorders, stating that good, old-fashioned parental discipline is all you need to cure whatever problem junior's got. As you said, that tells me exactly where you're coming from.

[JSngry]

Can't we all just get along?

[Tim McG]

One last comment & then I'm done (with this topic).

Sonnymax appears to be from the Dr. Spock school of child psychologists, which may be fine for him. I hope that all of your patients are benefiting from their kids co-sleeping with them.

I prefer John Rosemond. That's so you know where I'm coming from.

BTW, You don't need to insult me by putting medical practice in quotes. You know nothing about me & I'd prefer to keep it that way.

http://www.rosemond.com/

You are as clueless about me and my therapeutic approaches as you are about the issues we've been discussing so far on this thread. Read (slowly) my last post and understand that I'm in the cognitive-behavioral/rational-reality therapy/solution-focused camp for a majority of my clinical cases. Citing John Rosemond, that bible-thumping political conservative who argues against research into childhood disorders, stating that good, old-fashioned parental discipline is all you need to cure whatever problem junior's got. As you said, that tells me exactly where you're coming from.

John Rosemond?

I think we've discovered the problem.

The self-esteem is a tool of the devil school of right-wing psycho-babble. The spare the rod, spoil the child philosophy of child rearing. The just pray about it guide to parenting.

That is where many the holier-than-thou bullies I see come from.

Edited June 23, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[slide_advantage_redoux]

Can't we all just get along?

Apparently not

[David Ayers]

Can't we all just get along?

Apparently not

I can. It's all you other guys.

[Blue Train]

Were the kids in question disrespectful to someone older than them? Hell yes! Have their parents failed in doing their job? Of course! Should the kids be punished by the school in question? Yes.

In the meantime, only in America can you be a complete failure in your job and be considered a hero and have people send you $600,000+ and counting.

She is the bus monitor but she just sat there and allowed it to happen to her. It makes you wonder WTF? was allowed to happen in the 23-years of her being a bus driver and monitor on her buses.

In the meantime, (keeping in mind no official report has been released of any of the kids or their families names) the kids who are all of 12-13 and their families have been receiving thousands of threats. One of the kids in just one day received 1000 threats. One of the other kid's family found the police deployed in force around their house. Why? Because someone called the police to report, they had taken the family hostage. It took awhile for the police to find out it was a hoax. The family had turned off all their phones.

At least the kids have the excuse of being kids. You expect kids to do stupid things....especially if their parent's don't do their job. WTF? is the excuse of all the supposed adults involved? There are a lot of serious crimes resulting since it went viral....and it's the adults doing it.

The kids and family sent an apology to her. Even if she did not believe they were serious; she could have helped defuse the situation by accepting it. She not only did not, she made sure to let it be known publicly she did not accept it and thought it was B.S.

With all the nutcases out there in this day and age....

P.S. I am I the only one that wonders WTF? the bus driver was in all this?

Edited June 24, 2012 by Blue Train

[cih]

P.S. I am I the only one that wonders WTF? the bus driver was in all this?

no.

the incident, which should have been a very minor thing only became 'serious' because it was allowed to spiral and go on for far too long.

Edited June 24, 2012 by cih

[Tim McG]

It became "serious" when it happened.

Besides, the whole thing was put on YouTube and then it went viral. The rest is, well, history.

[RDK]

Yep, I'm sure this sort of stuff, sadly, goes on each and every day. Only by going viral did it really become news. I'm heartened that so many across the country are appalled by the boys' behavior. Frankly, I'm bothered by those who simply shrug it off as "kids being kids."

[Quincy]

Frankly, I'm bothered by those who simply shrug it off as "kids being kids."

I think everyone is disturbed by it and no one condones it, it's just when the story broke many tried to make it out as this generation of kids are evil devils because of lax parenting, Facebook and the demise of big bands. So that's the "kids being kids" part of it, that in certain situations (especially in groups) they've always had the ability to uh, not be very nice. See it as a rare case of old farts defending the newest gen. Though read another way, maybe it's the older generation bragging that they were worse. Ah, that's probably it.