Lance Armstrong

[Tim McG]

Just as I predicted, Armstrong's brand is strong enough to avoid any kind of consequential backlash. To wit:

Nike Statement:

"Lance has stated his innocence and has been unwavering on this position. Nike plans to continue to support Lance and the Lance Armstrong Foundation, a foundation that Lance created to serve cancer survivors."

Is anyone surprised with fanatics like this?

I am curious. Since it's apparent that it's okay to in essence to say "Fuck all the French" on this board. Is it okay on this board for any other liked minded to say the equivalent with anyone of color, all those who are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Homosexual,...maybe even say let's turn Iran and the 78 million people who live there into a grease spot (oh yeah, the same "fanatic" made it very clear he's all for that as well.)....or is it basically some sort of "Freedom Fries" thing which makes it okay to say "Fuck the 65 million people who live in France"?

Blue Train -- You've got to reach back to 2009 and dredge this up and then drape it in some "general" point about are we OK here with disparagement of "anyone of color, all those who are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Homosexual" etc. in order (or so it seems to me) to get at someone you have a long unhappy/angry history with on another board? Yeesh. I'll leave this post of yours up for a while so we can all walk around it and wonder at what must be going here.

And I was quoting Lance Armstrong then added a disclaimer of my own.

BTW, not that it matters, but very recently I have been getting infected e-mails which a friend on my contact list tipped me off about.

Hm.

Lance will heretofore receive no more Christmas cards from me!

Seriously, I think the public is simply 'roided out. And it's really hard to care about a cyclist who won a bunch of races in France when you have athletes cheating in more all-American games like baseball.

I think the bigger issue that we, as both fans and players, have to address in these technological times is just where to draw the line in "gaining an edge" in order to "win at all costs." How is taking a bunch of vitamins necessarily different from taking designer chemicals that also help the body process energy more efficiently... and so on? It's not going to get any easier as spitballs give way to gene therapies.

Exactly.

I patiently await PEDs investigation of the NFL. Right. Like that is going to happen.

Edited August 29, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[T.D.]

Report: USADA in possession of positive Armstrong samples

My guess is those are the frozen samples from 1999 TDF, which several years ago were reported (albeit by the nasty anti-American French media )to have been thawed and tested positive for EPO.

Edited September 3, 2012 by T.D.

[Tim McG]

1999?

Samples that are 13 years old? How reliable can they be at this point?

This isn't a murder or rape case. Seems to me that at some point the statute of limitations should take precedence. Either that or call this what it is: A witch hunt fueled by politics/jealousy.

Please note: I seriously do not give a damn if Armstrong did juice. So did everybody else in a sport which has become so exceedingly difficult it encourages doping just to keep up.

Maybe we should just cut to the chase and ban cycling as a sport because the sponsors have made it so nobody can consistatntly compete at such ridiculously high levels without PEDs. Either that or stop all this foolishness.

Enough already.

Edited September 3, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[Quincy]

Outside magazine has two articles out that explain not just that Lance used EPO but how he was a pioneer in cheating. It's not just one anonymous person with accusations but teammates coming out as well. You'll also learn that passing 500 drug tests means nothing when the tests are a joke. It's a short article and recommended. Lance's Secret Is Out - Outside magazine.

Also via The Browser (a great site for gathering up some of the best of the web daily in a dozen links a day) which I have not read yet: My Life With Lance Armstrong - Mike Anderson It's pretty obvious why Lance gave up the fight.

[Tim McG]

The lastest way to cheat is to micro-dose PEDs. Tests can't pick it up.

They can hang Armstrong's butt from a flagpole, but that still won't end the doping.

The sport just needs to cut its losses and move on; nothing good will come of this stuff.

Edited September 3, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[T.D.]

Funny story: Vaughters outs Garmin riders for past doping in online forum

Not surprisingly,

"All three riders raced as teammates to Lance Armstrong during earlier parts of their careers: Vande Velde at U.S. Postal Service from 1998 to 2003; Zabriskie at USPS from 2001 to 2004; and Danielson at Discovery Channel in 2005."

[Added] Another funny story: Museeuw calls for doping confessions from past riders

"Doping and EPO were established in the peloton in the 1980s and 1990s, says Johan Museeuw, who has called on his former colleagues to confess their doping. The Belgian has in the past acknowledged his own doping use during his successful career.

'I am the first to admit it openly, and perhaps many people will blame me that I break the silence, but it must be: virtually everyone took doping at that time,' he told the Gazet van Antwerpen.

'We must break with the hypocrisy. The only way to come out of that murderous spiral is to break the silence, the silence that continues to haunt us.'"

Like that's gonna happen!

Edited September 6, 2012 by T.D.

[Soulstation1]

*Barry Bonds* supports *Lance Armstrong*

[Tim McG]

*Barry Bonds* supports *Lance Armstrong*

And after the Feds went after Bonds, did that stop the PEDs?

[clifford_thornton]

Vaughters is dubious, from what I understand.

But anyway, here's his NYT op-ed.

A former training buddy of mine has this to say about Danielson (whom I'd never even heard of).

[T.D.]

Vaughters is dubious, from what I understand.

But anyway, here's his NYT op-ed.

A former training buddy of mine has this to say about Danielson (whom I'd never even heard of).

Thanks. I had seen the NYT story, but the stuff on Tilford's site was very interesting.

For a while in the "oughts" decade, Danielson was seen as a "Great White Hope", possibly the next LANCE. Reputedly a great climber, but his Euro career never took off. Still a fan favorite of sorts in the US, though.

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, I realized I was never going to go above a Cat 3, went to grad school and developed a gut. Still follow the sport to some degree, but not with insiders' fervor.

[Mike Schwartz]

*Barry Bonds* supports *Lance Armstrong*

And after the Feds went after Bonds, did that stop the PEDs?

Is that some sort of a defense of something or someone in particular, or is it about some other vauge notion?

[T.D.]

More on the Vaughters follies:

UCI suddenly develops interest in Garmin trio after Jonathan Vaughters’ online revelations

...Danielson, Zabriskie and Vande Velde are all said to have given testimony to the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency in regard to Armstrong, who abandoned his fight against wide-ranging doping charges in late August...

[David Ayers]

I have read Tyler Hamilton's book cover to cover (well, on kindle). It is a fascinating read. More than the EPO, which is just a little injection, it is the blood bags which really turn your stomach. If like me you followed the Tour over those years this book is a real revelation about what was actually going on. It's also a really engaging human interest story. I'm not one for sports books (training manuals occasionally, biographies etc. never) but I recommend this.

Oh and did I mention it's quite a sad story really?

[T.D.]

As had long been rumored, Six former Armstrong USPS teammates receive bans from USADA

...Frankie Andreu, Michael Barry, Tom Danielson, Tyler Hamilton, George Hincapie, Floyd Landis, Levi Leipheimer, Stephen Swart, Christian Vande Velde, Jonathan Vaughters and David Zabriskie were part of a 26-strong group that gave written testimonies.

According to USADA the evidence gathered includes: "direct documentary evidence including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove the use, possession and distribution of performance enhancing drugs by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS Team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding."...

[Added] Follow-ups:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/george-hincapie-confesses-to-doping

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/michael-barry-confesses-to-doping

Edited October 10, 2012 by T.D.

[Blue Train]

The full report.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/460432-10lede-usada-armstrong.html

[Dave James]

I'm confused. Is this an allegation criminal activity? Does it mean that Armstrong could actually end up paying a price for flaunting the rules or is it just piling on? I still maintain that in the court of public opinion, no one really cares. The only interesting thing will be to see if Nike continues to stand behind him in the wake of these latest developments.

[PHILLYQ]

I'm confused. Is this an allegation criminal activity? Does it mean that Armstrong could actually end up paying a price for flaunting the rules or is it just piling on? I still maintain that in the court of public opinion, no one really cares. The only interesting thing will be to see if Nike continues to stand behind him in the wake of these latest developments.

USADA can't prosecute Armstrong, but the Feds seem uninterested despite what looks like a criminal conspiracy. It would be piling on if Armstrong would ever 'fess up. A quick summary of Armstrong's position:

1) I'm telling the truth and everyone else is lying

2) The(seemingly) only non-doper won 7 TDF, but the dopers kept doping

[Christiern]

In my opinion, the man has disgraced the sport. He and his cohorts deserve everything bad that comes their way as a consequence of their criminality.

[brownie]

Now that the truth is out, it is interesting to return to an old thread (and the various reactions at the time)

Trouble ahead for Lance Armstrong

[jazzbo]

He's giving the Armstrong name a bad reputation!

[T.D.]

This just in from the appropriately named Yahoo! Sports*: USADA report reveals Lance Armstrong as the greatest fraud in American sports

*Probably the same guys who rhapsodized over the HR-hitting exploits of the obviously-juiced McGwire, Sosa, Bonds,...and now cry "OMG! We can't let those cheating dopers in the Hall of Fame!"

[Blue Train]

Lance Armstrong faces prospect of court battle over Tour de France bonus

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/11/lance-armstrong-tour-de-france?newsfeed=true

[Blue Train]

I'm confused. Is this an allegation criminal activity? Does it mean that Armstrong could actually end up paying a price for flaunting the rules or is it just piling on? I still maintain that in the court of public opinion, no one really cares. The only interesting thing will be to see if Nike continues to stand behind him in the wake of these latest developments.

USADA can't prosecute Armstrong, but the Feds seem uninterested despite what looks like a criminal conspiracy. It would be piling on if Armstrong would ever 'fess up. A quick summary of Armstrong's position:

1) I'm telling the truth and everyone else is lying

2) The(seemingly) only non-doper won 7 TDF, but the dopers kept doping

What's mindboggling is his supporters somehow believe the miracle that in a sport in which the vast majority of everyone if not everyone was on something....he won 7 TDF and was clean. Oh yeah, if that wasn't enough of a miracle....he also did that after stage 3 testicular cancer, which had spread to his lungs, abdomen and brain. He went from having a 40% chance of even living to winning 7 TDF while being clean....and everyone else probably was doping....and hadn't gone through Cancer...let alone one that metastasized to their lungs (you think that might be important in a sport when you're going 21 days and over 2000 miles?), abdomen and brain.

Even George Hincapie his domestique and closet ally (his version of Greg Anderson....without willing to spend years in jail (without being paid for it...wink, wink.) rather than just taking the stand.) and the only biker to be with him for all 7 finally came out against him.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Blue Train

[T.D.]

Funny quotes from Swiss time trial star Cancellara

...“Lance was apparently a systematic doper. He doped on a scale that cycling has never seen before. He has really destroyed a lot,” Cancellara is reported as saying.

...

"Today riders are again paying the price for what went wrong six or seven years ago. That's not fair. Lance has ensured that the early years of my career were wasted years. I hope that this time is finally behind us. It will not happen immediately, it takes time but it should happen.”

The Swiss rider continued by saying that he was hopeful the times were changing for the better. "Now I understand how US Postal was able to put eight or nine riders in the front on a mountain stage and drop all the others..."

...