Jazz Messengers - Celine 11/10/59

[bertrand]

Listening to this track today from the Africaine album.

From 1:28-1:37, Wayne Shorter makes a very distinctive quote. Every time I listened to this in the past, I thought he was quoting his composition 'The Albatross' which he recorded a year later on Second Genesis. There are other examples of Wayne quoting his own (later) compositions, so this was not surprising.

But today it dawned on me - what he is quoting sounds like the 'Theme From Star Trek', which of course did not come out until 6-7 years later (altough the Blakey LP was not issued until the rainbow series).

The wikipedia entry on the Star Trek them has a quote by the composer Alexander Courage which sheds some light on this situation:

Courage has said his inspiration for the main part of the theme was the Richard Whiting song "Beyond the Blue Horizon," giving him the idea for a song which was a "long thing that...keeps going out into space...over a fast moving accompaniment."[3] The opening resembles two elements of symphonies by Gustav Mahler; the very beginning echoes the first notes of Mahler's First Symphony, while the first three notes of the leitmotif fanfare, as well as some of the harmonic structure and orchestration that Courage used, are similar to phrases in the first movement of his Seventh Symphony. The melodic and rhythmic outline of the opening horn solo is clearly derived from motto themes found in the openings of the symphonies of Anton Bruckner (most especially that of the horn section solo in the opening of the Ninth) while the duplet-triplet pattern of the melody is found in Bruckner's Third, Fourth, Sixth and Eighth Symphonies. The harmonic progression is from the song "Out Of Nowhere," a jazz song written by Edward Heyman and Johnny Green.

So which of these pieces was Wayne referencing in 1959? Do we know of an example of his quoting this theme after the show became a cult favorite (and we know Wayne is a fan). I know many examples of Star Wars quotes, but I can't recall any Star Trek quotes (at least not at this hour). Also, does 'The Albatross' have a connection to any of the pieces listed above?

Thanks,

Bertrand.

P.S. Of course, in the topic title, I meant 'Star Trek', not 'Star Wars'. How can I fix this, or does a moderator have to do it?

Edited May 14, 2012 by bertrand

[GA Russell]

Bertrand, click on "use full editor", then go back and make the change at the top line.

Edited May 14, 2012 by GA Russell

[bertrand]

Done - thanks.

[Rooster_Ties]

Here's the quote from an upload on Youtube, all cued up and everything...

Celine at 1:28

Note: the quote is only two phrases long (barely 9 seconds, if that), and the cue I've linked to starts about half a second before the quote.

[Larry Kart]

Interesting -- OTOH that passage sounds so Wayne-like, but it is a modified quote, right now I hear as much or more "Out of Nowhere" in it as I do "Beyond the Blue Horizon" (i.e. in what Wayne plays, not in the Star Trek theme). BTW, check out Jeannette McDonald's rather alarming recording of BBB; she owned the song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lz4kLiuPf4

[jeffcrom]

There are only twelve notes in Western music - different folks are going to come up with similar combinations. Doesn't sound like a quote to me. But maybe I'm just being a spoilsport.

[bertrand]

I think he was definitely quoting something, either 'Nowhere' or 'Horizon'. Funny how he sort of stumbled on the Star Trek theme by doing so. Maybe he should get composer credit

Bertrand.

[bertrand]

Up - any thoughts on this?

Bertrand.

[Free For All]

Who knows for sure, but I don't think it's a quote. I think he played the first idea and then sequenced it.