Overlooked/Ignored/Neglected

[clifford_thornton]

George Russell is someone whom I'd really like to read a good bio of. I have the Decca vinyl but would jump at a Select.

[JETman]

George Russell is someone whom I'd really like to read a good bio of. I have the Decca vinyl but would jump at a Select.

watch out. your participles are dangling!

[J.A.W.]

George Russell is someone whom I'd really like to read a good bio of. I have the Decca vinyl but would jump at a Select.

watch out. your participles are dangling!

Please explain.

[skeith]

My Bill Evans candidate for this topic would be "Intermodulation" with Jim Hall.

Much better than the critically preferred "Undercurrent" and just a thing of beauty.

I don't think it is even in print right now.

[JETman]

George Russell is someone whom I'd really like to read a good bio of. I have the Decca vinyl but would jump at a Select.

watch out. your participles are dangling!

Please explain.

Not proper English:

whom I'd really like to read a good bio of.

Proper English:

someone about whom I'd like to read a good bio

Participles (in this case: "of") should not be placed at the end of sentences. Having been married to a writer myself, I know that being a good one does not equate to someone who can necessarily handle grammar and syntax well. Very surprising --- these functions must be handled in different parts of the brain.

[BillF]

George Russell is someone whom I'd really like to read a good bio of. I have the Decca vinyl but would jump at a Select.

watch out. your participles are dangling!

Please explain.

Not proper English:

whom I'd really like to read a good bio of.

Proper English:

someone about whom I'd like to read a good bio

Participles (in this case: "of") should not be placed at the end of sentences. Having been married to a writer myself, I know that being a good one does not equate to someone who can necessarily handle grammar and syntax well. Very surprising --- these functions must be handled in different parts of the brain.

This is something I never thought of. I'm sure you know what you're talking about. Good to get a bit more knowledge gathered in!

[J.A.W.]

George Russell is someone whom I'd really like to read a good bio of. I have the Decca vinyl but would jump at a Select.

watch out. your participles are dangling!

Please explain.

Not proper English:

whom I'd really like to read a good bio of.

Proper English:

someone about whom I'd like to read a good bio

Participles (in this case: "of") should not be placed at the end of sentences. Having been married to a writer myself, I know that being a good one does not equate to someone who can necessarily handle grammar and syntax well. Very surprising --- these functions must be handled in different parts of the brain.

Yep, that's what my English teacher taught me all those years ago, but if every native English speaker who makes this mistake would give me a cent, I'd be a very rich man very soon

[BillF]

George Russell is someone whom I'd really like to read a good bio of. I have the Decca vinyl but would jump at a Select.

watch out. your participles are dangling!

Please explain.

Not proper English:

whom I'd really like to read a good bio of.

Proper English:

someone about whom I'd like to read a good bio

Participles (in this case: "of") should not be placed at the end of sentences. Having been married to a writer myself, I know that being a good one does not equate to someone who can necessarily handle grammar and syntax well. Very surprising --- these functions must be handled in different parts of the brain.

Yep, that's what my English teacher taught me all those years ago, but if every native English speaker who makes this mistake would give me a cent, I'd be a very rich man very soon

"All those years ago" is very relevant. All the above examples of the so-called "mistake" sound fine to me and, of course, they reflect the way people use English nowadays, which is good enough for me!

[A Lark Ascending]

they reflect the way people use English nowadays, which is good enough for me!

I was talking to a kid in a small staffroom today and he commented 'It's all right for you teachers, you get to make cup-of-teas'.

The other common one I love on trips to Wales is the little voice behind me on the coach saying 'Oh! Look! There are sheeps on that hill.'

Sheeps may safely graze, regardless of grammar.

Edited May 22, 2012 by A Lark Ascending

[Free For All]

George Russell is someone whom I'd really like to read a good bio of. I have the Decca vinyl but would jump at a Select.

watch out. your participles are dangling!

Please explain.

Not to further derail the thread, but.....

........shouldn't he have said dangling prepositions (of, for, with) instead of participles? Aren't participles words that end with "-ing"?

It's been a long time since English class, but I thought those were two different things.

[John L]

Yes, "of" is a preposition, not a participle.

Edited May 22, 2012 by John L

[clifford_thornton]

Apologies for posting before lunch.

[JETman]

George Russell is someone whom I'd really like to read a good bio of. I have the Decca vinyl but would jump at a Select.

watch out. your participles are dangling!

Please explain.

Not to further derail the thread, but.....

........shouldn't he have said dangling prepositions (of, for, with) instead of participles? Aren't participles words that end with "-ing"?

It's been a long time since English class, but I thought those were two different things.

You are right, but my point still stands.

Apologies for posting before lunch.

Are you hypoglycemic?

[BillF]

Found very few mentions of this album in the forum. An oddity in the Evans canon, but one that is well worth a listen. Seven Evans originals, no standards, with Zoot Sims & Jim Hall upfront, Ron Carter & Philly Joe Jones providing a thick, springin' bottom. At turns intricate ("Loose Bloose", an excellent, sort of mellow Tristano tune), lyrical ("Time Remembered", "There Came You"), tough, ragged ("Funkallero"), contrapuntal ("Fudgesickle Built For Four")! Each track is interesting, original in one way or another.

You're right! A true Overlooked/Ignored/Neglected candidate. All I have from the session is "Loose Bloos" on this 1970s twofer:

P.S. Obviously things have moved on since Orrin Keepnews wrote of the "Loose Bloos" track on the 1970s twofer:

"This, I'm afraid, is from a truly lost session .... things just didn't go too smoothly at this ... date, and it was put on the shelf. Later, Bill and engineer Ray Fowler began to do editing work; they put this selection into shape that Evans approved and got started on a second without stopping. They never did resume the project, and now I find that the rest of the tapes have totally vanished - leaving only "Loose Bloos" and a frustrating partial item that ends abruptly in the middle of a piano solo. My gut reaction was to get this one salvaged tune out into the world quickly, before it also disappeared."

Hope I'm not getting off topic, but does anyone know how the Loose Blues album came about in view of Keepnews' comments here?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

George Russell is someone whom I'd really like to read a good bio of. I have the Decca vinyl but would jump at a Select.

watch out. your participles are dangling!

Please explain.

Not proper English:

whom I'd really like to read a good bio of.

Proper English:

someone about whom I'd like to read a good bio

Participles (in this case: "of") should not be placed at the end of sentences. Having been married to a writer myself, I know that being a good one does not equate to someone who can necessarily handle grammar and syntax well. Very surprising --- these functions must be handled in different parts of the brain.

There are some contexts in which it's NECESSARY to have a dangling preposition. I always remember Winston CHurchill's remark on the subject. "Prepositions at the end of sentences are things up with which I will not put!"

MG

[JSngry]

Hate to get back on topic, really I do, but...overlooked...Maynard Ferguson's Color Him Wild (later reissued as Dues).

Ok, the format was past the pint of no return as far as "relevancy" goes, and even when it was relevant, Maynard's band was always more a "showcase" than it was a "vital creative force" relative to the overall jazz scene at any given time.

Now, having said that, this is a very, very good album. The arrangements are all fresh (again, relative to the world they inhabit), the soloists, all fine, and the rhythm section (Mike Abene, Ron Mcclure, & Tony Inzalaco) plays for keeps. And in Willie Maiden's "Tinsel" & Rob McConnell's (for whom on I usually have no use) "Come Rain Or Come Shine", there's two of the best "traditional" big band charts of the 1960s, period. And that's in pretty good company to be, truthfully.

Maynard was at the begin of a career/personal decline during this time, and I don't know how much attention this one got in its time. But it does seem to be mostly overlooked today, and it's too fine a work to so be.

[Free For All]

the pint of no return

I've experienced that more than once in my lifetime.

And ditto regarding Dues- it's a great record, and Tinsel is a masterful blues ballad..

[Pete C]

Not proper English:

whom I'd really like to read a good bio of.

Proper English:

someone about whom I'd like to read a good bio

Participles (in this case: "of") should not be placed at the end of sentences. Having been married to a writer myself, I know that being a good one does not equate to someone who can necessarily handle grammar and syntax well. Very surprising --- these functions must be handled in different parts of the brain.

As a writer and proofreader, I have no problem with the original. Clearly you're a prescriptive grammarian. Grammar is a guideline, and usage evolves. "Rules" like particples should not be placed at the end of sentences are pretty much anal retentive clinging to useless prescriptions that go against common usage and understanding. The original sentence is perfectly "proper English."

[Chuck Nessa]

Whatever.........

Move on folks, nothing to see here.

[robertoart]

Whatever.........

Move on folks, nothing to see here.

Not for me. I had a very poor education and am always looking to catch up. Any insights, even at this late stage of life, are most certainly welcome.

[J.A.W.]

Whatever.........

Move on folks, nothing to see here.

Not for me. I had a very poor education and am always looking to catch up. Any insights, even at this late stage of life, are most certainly welcome.

And I'm always interested in improving my English, that's why the correct use of grammar is important to me.

Edited May 23, 2012 by J.A.W.

[Chuck Nessa]

Never any corrections from me.

I am a peasant with a peasant's lack of understanding and disregard for the proper stuff. If you do not understand anything I say, ask for a translation.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Chuck Nessa

[Larry Kart]

Hate to get back on topic, really I do, but...overlooked...Maynard Ferguson's Color Him Wild (later reissued as Dues).

Ok, the format was past the pint of no return as far as "relevancy" goes, and even when it was relevant, Maynard's band was always more a "showcase" than it was a "vital creative force" relative to the overall jazz scene at any given time.

Now, having said that, this is a very, very good album. The arrangements are all fresh (again, relative to the world they inhabit), the soloists, all fine, and the rhythm section (Mike Abene, Ron Mcclure, & Tony Inzalaco) plays for keeps. And in Willie Maiden's "Tinsel" & Rob McConnell's (for whom on I usually have no use) "Come Rain Or Come Shine", there's two of the best "traditional" big band charts of the 1960s, period. And that's in pretty good company to be, truthfully.

Maynard was at the begin of a career/personal decline during this time, and I don't know how much attention this one got in its time. But it does seem to be mostly overlooked today, and it's too fine a work to so be.

:tup

[Larry Kart]

George Russell is someone whom I'd really like to read a good bio of. I have the Decca vinyl but would jump at a Select.

watch out. your participles are dangling!

Please explain.

Not proper English:

whom I'd really like to read a good bio of.

Proper English:

someone about whom I'd like to read a good bio

Participles (in this case: "of") should not be placed at the end of sentences. Having been married to a writer myself, I know that being a good one does not equate to someone who can necessarily handle grammar and syntax well. Very surprising --- these functions must be handled in different parts of the brain.

But "of" is not a participle, it's a preposition! A participle is a word formed from a verb, e.g. "going" from "gone," and used in so-called compound verb forms -- e.g. "This thread is going down the toilet."

[Stefan Wood]

Edwin Newman correcting grammar on suicide hotline