Dave Douglas

[Bright Moments]

Dave Douglas ". . .a pivotal figure of modern (or postmodern) music. . ." -The New York Times, reads my insert in my new Mingus cd (Tijuana) from Bluebird. It is pushing his cd called "Freak in." I rushed to my AMG music guide (paper not computer) and read a little about him and was curious.

Next stop, here, to my pals on-line. Is this guy good? where do I start?

Thanks. B)

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Might be prejudiced, but pick up the first or third Masada Quartet discs. Always reasonable on eBay these days. His playing on those is stunning and if you grab a couple you can cull out the wacked-out overtly bizarre klezmarishness and get down to some incredibly rewarding stuff. Some others here would know better of his solo outings. I think a new one w/ Frisell and Caine is out soon?

davedouglas

[Dr. Rat]

It's out to radio. Just got it. First impression: very Frisell-ish (with the wideopen music landscape thing going through much of it).

[tonym]

I need to listen to more DD to give a qualified opinion but, having heard Freak In, A Thousand Evenings and having seen him live last year I will give my two-penneth worth.

Firstly, he is an incredible trumpeter (in terms of tone and articulation IMO -- not too brassy or brazen) and secondly he gathers some fantastic guys around him. BUT I think much of his material is on the weak side and I am certainly not a fan of the Klezmer stuff; I can listen to it, but I would prefer to spend precious money on something else. What is good is great (Culver City Park from Freak.. is one of my CD highlights, old and new stuff included) and he never hogs the limelight, it's all very dynamic and interactive stuff.

I've been told on a different thread that his 'Tiny Bell Trio' stuff is great, I also like the idea of his 'Infinite' band -- supposed to extrapolate Miles' 'Filles' band. I was even impressed with his use of electronica and DJ in last years album; it added some musical sense to the proceedings rather than a nod to what was hip at the time.

Many of the cuts on his website are remixes so it's hard to get too much of an accurate impression there, I think.

My next DD purchase would be Infinite or one of his Winter & Winter albums.

Cheers, tonym.

[JohnS]

I'm not a great fan, especially of his less straight ahead recordings like the Tiny Bell Trio, "Witness" and the string bands for example. However there is some fine playing on"In Our Lifetime", Soul On Soul" and "Stargazer" as well as two quartet dates with Chris Potter "Magic Triangle" and "Leap of Faith". Also "Moving Portraits" is worth having. You should try at least one of the "Masada" discs too.

Edited January 22, 2004 by JohnS

[jlhoots]

My overall impression is more positive than most of the above.

There are CDs on Soul Note & Arabesque that are well worth your attention.

The Tiny Bell trio albums on Songlines & Hat are great.

I wasn't a big fan of Witness & Freak In.

I'm curious about the new one.

Wonder how Frisell will fit in.

[minew]

I have Witness, Freak In, and the Infinite. I like them but don't find myself listening all that often. OTOH, I do enjoy his work with Masada quite a bit. Esp. like the live albums in Sevilla and Jerusalem.

[Bright Moments]

wow, from the comments i'm having second thoughts.

it seems that shelling out the bucks for a whole cd is risky when only a few cuts are worth it.

can anyone recommend an entire DD cd that is worth buying?

thanks all! B)

[sal]

However there is some fine playing on"In Our Lifetime", Soul On Soul" and "Stargazer"

In my opinion, these are three of the finest modern progressive jazz discs I've heard. This sextet (sometimes septet) with Greg Tardy, Josh Roseman, Uri Caine, James Genus, Joey Barron and sometimes Chris Speed is really something. This group is often refered to as his "tribute band", which is not really accurate. That only came about because the albums are dedicated to Booker Little, Mary Lou Williams, and Wayne Shorter. I think these are Dave's best recordings.

The piano-less quartet recordings with Chris Potter ("Magic Triangle" & "Leap of Faith") are really good as well, although not as good as the sextet recordings IMO. "The Infinite" with his quintet featuring Chris Potter is one of his best, and I enjoy his most recent release, "Freak In". I haven't heard any of the string albums, or any from the Charms of the Night Sky band, so I have no opinion on those. The only Dave Douglas I'm not crazy about is his Tiny Bell Trio, but other people really seem to dig it, so who knows...

And finally, I recommend the live Masada recordings (Middleheim especially), and his new quintet disc with Bill Frisell that comes out next week looks promising. Whew!! I don't know how he does it.

Edited January 22, 2004 by sal

[Muskrat Ramble]

The Infinite is one of my absolute favorite jazz discs from the hundreds lining my shelves. Gorgeous, fascinating, subtle stuff with some beautiful playing in a Filles-era Milesian vein, particularly from Douglas himself, Caine, and Clarence Penn on drums.

I'm having a hard time getting into Freak In, though. I have no problem at all with electronics and whatnot in jazz, but I just don't really find it musical or interesting on that particular album. I sort of get this "Wheee! I just discovered synthesizers!" vibe. I'll need to do more listening to be sure.

Can't wait for Douglas's next album, nonetheless.

[Alon Marcus]

I'm listening right now to Strange Liberation

Quite good on first impression. It has a great team with Uri Caine, Bill Frisel and Chris Potter. The compositions sound very fine to me. Need more time to evaluate the solos.

[Guest akanalog]

why is douglas respected so much?

he seems to get too much credit for things.

ooh he added fender rhodes-like 30 years after jazz musicians began to do that yet it is seen as some big breakthrough.

ooh he added a dj and samples. i think people were doing that 10 years before him.

it seems like people, for whatever reasons, want to herald him as this genious but i don't really see what he is doing is so special to be held in such regard.

[md655321]

Here is why I give him so much credit: I like his music.

I don't think his 'innovations' is the reason he gets so much praise. He assembles good bands, writes good tunes, and plays excellent trumpet.

[.:.impossible]

why is douglas respected so much?

he seems to get too much credit for things.

ooh he added fender rhodes-like 30 years after jazz musicians began to do that yet it is seen as some big breakthrough.

ooh he added a dj and samples. i think people were doing that 10 years before him.

it seems like people, for whatever reasons, want to herald him as this genious but i don't really see what he is doing is so special to be held in such regard.

I don't know where you're coming from, but where I'm coming from, these two examples are creating a lack of respect. Yeah, its been done. Then again, so fucking what? If you only listen to music that's "never been doen before" you are going to have a lot of time on your hands.

I think people give Dave Douglas a good amount of credit because he is a versatile trumpet player. Have you ever tried to play a trumpet before? The man has an incredible amount of control over such a stiff mouthpiece.

Not only that, he can be a brilliant improviser. I said this elsewhere, but you have to see him play with Masada up close to really understand what he is capable of doing. That DVD does justice.

Too much credit? If you are attributing him credit for "adding" fender rhodes and dj's in the 21st century, it is you that is giving too much credit. What do you think of musicians that "add" double bassists to their groups? Instrumentation is hardly the point.

[.:.impossible]

p.s. I haven't heard any of the Masada studio albums, so I can't comment there, but the live stuff is more of a blend of AEC horn improv and Ornette composition. Not to mention a very steady groove backing. I'm sure others will say no, but it is seemingly less about the flatted-third than that exponential bebop.*

*WTF am I talking about?

Check out the DVD.

[Guest akanalog]

that is true. i do not have very much respect for dave douglas.

i mostly fear in the future someone like him will be looked at as an innovator as he seems to be championed for whatever reason and those who came before him, the real innovators, will be more and more forgotten as time passes.

[md655321]

Please enlighten us as to the "real" innovators then.

I think jazz, because it has gone thorugh much, is similar to rock music is now. Innocation is no longer big steps, but small waves and personal statements. Douglas has undoubtedly carved out a niche for himself, and I personally dont think there is any reason to doubt his contributions to the music.

[Aggie87]

I like Douglas, but don't necessarily consider him "innovative" in the sense that is being discussed. I find him to be creative and prolific, and likes to try alot of different configurations. Don't see anything wrong with that. I also like Terence Blanchard, out of the current crop of trumpet players. Not sure he's innovative either.

edited for typo.

Edited January 21, 2006 by Aggie87

[Guest akanalog]

no but blanchard i think gets a bad rap among the cognoscenti whereas douglas is championed.

i would say blanchard probably doesn't get enough respect.

[.:.impossible]

I also don't think Blanchard is as versatile with a trumpet. Surroundings aside, it comes down to what's coming out of the horn. I'll keep saying this, check out that Masada DVD and then tell me what you think of Dave Douglas. No microphones, no effects, no electronics, no producer, just a music stand and a trumpet.

[Nate Dorward]

As far as I'm concerned a musician is "innovative" when he/she makes music that's interesting to listen to & heartfelt. Which Douglas certainly has, even if I've found recent work a little less interesting (haven't heard the Keystone disc, just Bow River Falls which is all right but not that exciting).

[jlhoots]

that is true. i do not have very much respect for dave douglas.

i mostly fear in the future someone like him will be looked at as an innovator as he seems to be championed for whatever reason and those who came before him, the real innovators, will be more and more forgotten as time passes.

Since it's all opinion no matter who says it, I don't agree with most of what you say re: Douglas.

I am interested in who the "real innovators" are that are being or will be "forgotten" because of Douglas.

Edited January 21, 2006 by jlhoots

[johnagrandy]

"Freak In" owes a huge debt to Miles 70s of course. But what if you want to listen to that genre but for whatever reason, not Miles himself.

Douglas has all the innovative young players playing with him. That's got to say something for him ....

Anyway, almost anyone these days can be accused of being non-innovative and derivative. The explosion in forms styles harmonies rhythms etc during the 60s and 70s was almost incomprehensibly vast. Personally I think it comes down to personal taste these days. When a true innovator like Wayne or Woody or Miles or John comes along we'll all know it.

[montg]

As far as I'm concerned a musician is "innovative" when he/she makes music that's interesting to listen to & heartfelt. Which Douglas certainly has, even if I've found recent work a little less interesting (haven't heard the Keystone disc, just Bow River Falls which is all right but not that exciting).

I don't know how innovative he is, but I've really grown to love the quintet work. I don't think there's another series of CDs produced in the last few years that I enjoy more than the three below.

[Nate Dorward]

Actually as it happens I recently picked up Keystone (in part because my daughter's an aficionado of silent film comedy). Hmmm..... not a big fan: nice electric/electronic textures but Douglas's playing isn't nearly as interesting as on something like In Our Lifetime. Oh well. Don't get much out of the saxophonist either.