Anyone else think this woman is extremely unfunny?

[johnlitweiler]

"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture." -- Monk.

No. Writing about music is worth two in the bush.

[JSngry]

And dancing in the dark is like not wearing shoes to the mall.

[Chuck Nessa]

Thank Jesus the world is fine now - shoes or no shoes!

[BruceH]

"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture." -- Monk.

The attribution to Monk is incorrect. No definitive answer, but there's a fair amount of citations for Martin Mull, but it could be as early as Clara Schumann.

I didn't know that there was any controversy about this! I thought that it was Charles Mingus who said, "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture."

I've seen it attributed to Elvis Costello as well.

[Chuck Nessa]

Whoever, it is incorrect.

[rostasi]

Quote Investigator

(tho I do prefer the N+11 Oulipo version:

"Talking about nature is like daylight about art." )

[GA Russell]

Rod, that's an interesting article! It certainly appears that in its modern form it was said first by Martin Mull.

[Jazzmoose]

#116 Black Music that Black People Don’t Listen to Anymore

November 18, 2008 by clander

All music genres go through a very similar life cycle: birth, growth, mainstream acceptance, decline, and finally obscurity. With black music, however, the final stage is never reached because white people are work tirelessly to keep it alive. Apparently, once a music has lost its relevance with its intended audience, it becomes MORE relevant to white people.

Historically speaking, the music that white people have kept on life support for the longest period of time is Jazz. Thanks largely to public radio, bookstores, and coffee shops, Jazz has carved out a niche in white culture that is not yet ready to be replaced by Indie Rock. But the biggest role that Jazz plays in white culture is in the white fantasy of leisure. All white people believe that they prefer listening to jazz over watching television. This is not true.

Every few a months, a white person will put on some Jazz and pour themselves a glass of wine or scotch and tell themselves how nice it is. Then they will get bored and watch television or write emails to other white people about how nice it was to listen to Jazz at home. “Last night, I poured myself a glass of Shiraz and put Charlie Parker on the Bose. It was so relaxing, I wish I had a fireplace.” Listing this activity as one of your favorites is a sure fire way to make progress towards a romantic relationship with a white person.

Along with Jazz, white people have also taken quite a shine to The Blues, an art form that captured the pain of the black experience in America. Then, in the 1960s, a bunch of British bands started to play their own version of the music and white people have been loving it ever since. It makes sense considering that the British were the ones who created The Blues in the 17th Century.

Today, white people keep The Blues going strong by taking vacations to Memphis, forming awkward bands, making documentaries, and organizing folk festivals. Blue and Jazz music appeal mostly to older white people and select few young ones who probably wear fedoras. But that doesn’t mean that young white people aren’t working hard to preserve music that has lost relevance. No, there are literally thousands of white people who are giving their all to keep old school Hip Hop alive.

Even as you read this, white people are telling other white people about the golden age of Hip Hop that they experienced in a suburban high school or through a viewing of The Wackness.

If you are good at concealing laughter and contempt, you should ask a white person about “Real Hip Hop.” They will quickly tell you about how they don’t listen to “Commercial Hip Hop” (aka music that black people actually enjoy), and that they much prefer “Classic Hip Hop.”

“I don’t listen to that commercial stuff. I’m more into the Real Hip Hop, you know? KRS One, Del Tha Funkee Homosapien, De La Soul, Wu Tang, you know, The Old School.”

Calling this style of music ‘old school’ is considered an especially apt name since the majority of people who listen to it did so while attending old schools such as Dartmouth, Bard, and Williams College.

What it all comes down to is that white people are convinced that if they were alive when this music was relevant that they would have been into it. They would have been Alan Lomax or Rick Rubin. Now the best they can hope for is to impress an older black person with their knowledge.

So, was this written with the assumption that white people don't know what it's like to have moronic judgements handed down on them just on the basis of their race, and that this lack has to be corrected? Because otherwise, I don't see much point.

[Neal Pomea]

I want to be clearer about the sense in which I meant the Monk comment above. Of course we can talk about music. We do it all the time on this board and elsewhere!

One of my heroes is Dick Spottswood, who jokingly calls his radio show the Obsolete Music Hour. No offense, Dick (or clander), but I just think that calling any genre of music either obsolete or relevant is as off point as dancing about architecture. Obsolete and relevant do not apply, imo.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Neal Pomea

[AllenLowe]

going to revive this because, truth is, some of the things that were said were hurtful and pretty much led me to resolve to limit my future postings here - of course, quite obviously Sonnymax insulted me by implying that I could never criticize another performer without thereby meaning that I was purely jealous of their success; an obviously stupid thing to say; can Larry Kart never criticize another writer? Especially if that writer is better known? and Pete C, whom I like, really missed the point by posting, in relation to my saying I was depressed by these kind of success stories:

" If you get depressed by other people's success you need to either:

a) Stop seeking "success" as in fame or monetary reward (you're already a success in the most important sense)

b) Take up Zen Buddhism or something like it*

thanks, I will remember this next time I am depressed by Mitt Romney's success, or Kenny G's; or the Tea Party's, or John Boehner's or Ronald Reagan's or the slave traders of the 1600s.

We need to avoid turning disagreements into personal attacks. I know the moderators here don't intercede in these kinds of situations, but I find it insulting when someone who disagrees with me attacks my motivations rather than my argument.

anyone who knows me is aware that I have helped a lot of other performers without regard to my relative lack of musical success; and that I am not jealous of other players, with whom I regularly share recorded space. And I have spent about 35 years assisting and promoting other players, without personal benefit.

Edited June 23, 2012 by AllenLowe

[sonnymax]

Allen, I was reacting to an OP that I felt was pointless and frankly, mean-spirited in its criticism of a performer that none of us here know. In hindsight, I can see how my suspicions about possible underlying reasons for your dismissal of this woman might have been hurtful to you. I'm sorry, and I apologize for that. And for spelling your name wrong.

[AllenLowe]

thanks, Sonnymax, appreciated. Mean-spirited and pointless I can defend, or not, and makes sense to me as disagreement. Once again, I appreciate your posting this.

[Pete C]

My point was that given the realities of the marketplace and the constant triumph of mediocrity it's rather pointless to get depressed (Allen's word) over those successes, especially when they're in a realm in which one doesn't have a stake. I think Allen is being oversensitive here about the responses. If these are "personal attacks" they're about as benign as they can get on a public bulletin board.

[Alexander]

I hate her, because she doesn't link to my blog (Where Dead Voices Gather!) on her homepage. I don't care if she's never read it.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Alexander

[AllenLowe]

that's good enough for me -

[cih]

That's a great blog, I've visited it often.

(Where Dead Voices Gather, that is)

(btw have you peeps read the Nick Tosches book of the same name? - is it recommended?)

edit - I just read the first post on the blog..

Edited June 26, 2012 by cih

[AllenLowe]

I hate the Tosches book;

1) it has lots of mistakes

2) he's one of those guys whose writing is very attractive, but when one listens to the things he is writing about they are nothing like what he says

3) he acts as though he's anti-purist, in terms of American music; yet he, himself, gets very self-righteous about alleged musical "theft" -

and Pete C - meant to respond earlier - the reason I am bothered by posts such as your prior post is that it attributes a critical response to personal frustration and inadequacy - it says, "if you don't like this, there is probably something wrong with you." That bothers me and I find it unfair. It converts a third-person comment into something personal.

Edited June 26, 2012 by AllenLowe

[Pete C]

it says, "if you don't like this, there is probably something wrong with you."

It doesn't say anything of the sort. It says, "if the success of mediocrity in a realm not even yours bothers you so much (to the point of "depression") maybe you need to put things in perspective."

[AllenLowe]

well, you phrased it as "depressed by other people's success" - which is a bit more personal and wide-ranging; because I was not depressed by the fact that it was someone else, but by the mediocre nature of the person who was successful -

Edited June 26, 2012 by AllenLowe

[Pete C]

All I'm saying is if you're going to allow yourself to get depressed by the successes of the mediocre you'll never be happy.

[AllenLowe]

well, I'm pretty satisfied these days and still depressed by it - I think it's more a matter of whether you allow yourself to be consumed by the depression.

[JSngry]

I feel your pain. It stings deeply.

I guess I just wasn't made for these times.

[Pete C]

well, I'm pretty satisfied these days and still depressed by it - I think it's more a matter of whether you allow yourself to be consumed by the depression.

OK, that's what I call emotional multitasking. When I was unemployed I was bummed out, but not unhappy. Now that I have a job I'm bummed out about it, but not unhappy.

I guess I just wasn't made for these times.

I think the times you were made for have a very narrow window.

[JSngry]

I guess I just wasn't made for these times.

I think the times you were made for have a very narrow window.

That's just hurtful.

I am sad now.

Sad and depressed.

[Tim McG]

I blame congress.