Who heard them already: New Fantasy SACDs

[tjobbe]

Hi All,

the 20th, January is getting near and I would like to know who of you fellow americans had the pleasure to put his hands on one of the second batch of Fantasy SACD's ?

Any feedback so far ?

Cheers, Tjobbe

[Claude]

Hello Tjobbe,

I just ordered the Cannonball and the Art Pepper SACDs from cduniverse.com ($14 promo). Maybe I'll get the Massey Hall too (but it was still $20 there).

I already have the Pepper on a K2 CD and will be able to compare. The first SACD batch from Fantasy wasn't that great from the sonic point of view (except the Gil Evans), so I'll use this comparision to see if upgrade is worth it. I don't expect the SACDs to be better than DCC remastered CDs.

The Cannonball will be available on January 27 only, so it will take some before I can report on those discs.

[deadcoldfish]

I got the Dolphy one last week, and it's great !

Paul

[Eric]

I have the Monk/Trane set and it seems like a nice improvement, with Trane esp vivid. I also have the Wes ("Incredible ...") and sadly it is not that much better. But, this one has always sounded kinda lousy to me, so maybe a bad test case. Anyway, I do plan to dip my toe in for selected titles again.

Eric

[Claude]

Eric,

What CD release did you compare the SACD with? I'm sure that the SACDs are an improvement over the dated remasterings from the late 80's, but not necessarily over the recent K2 CDs.

Thanks

[tjobbe]

  Eric said:

I have the Monk/Trane set and it seems like a nice improvement, with Trane esp vivid. I also have the Wes ("Incredible ...") and sadly it is not that much better. But, this one has always sounded kinda lousy to me, so maybe a bad test case. Anyway, I do plan to dip my toe in for selected titles again.

Eric

Hi Eric,

guess you are talking about the first batch Fantasy released last year... (as those I mostly do have)

Cheers, Tjobbe

P.S. but I'm sharing your comments as the Wes is not the one I would have release in HiRes....

[sal]

This is a dumb question...but these are hybrids right? I don't have an SACD player, but I ordered the Dolphy CD.

[tjobbe]

yes Sal.. they are all hybrids

[sal]

  tjobbe said:

yes Sal.. they are all hybrids

Thanks tjobbe!

[Eric]

Claude,

Yes, it was the late 80s release for the Monk/Trane.

Eric

[jacknife]

I just received all ten from Acoustic Sounds. I've only listened to Art Pepper's +eleven so far and it sounds great. I don't have this album in any other version to compare to. Can't wait to give the others a listen.

[Guy Berger]

  tjobbe said:

Hi All,

the 20th, January is getting near and I would like to know who of you fellow americans had the pleasure to put his hands on one of the second batch of Fantasy SACD's ?

Any feedback so far ?

Cheers, Tjobbe

Furthermore, could anyone comment on the CD sound of the hybrids? I only have a CD player and was thinking of picking up Dolphy's Out There. I don't own it yet and am not sure whether I want to pay almost double the price.

Guy

[vibes]

Guy, I haven't heard it, but you can get the SACD hybrid for $13.99 from CD Universe, which seems like a fairly reasonable price to me.

Out There

[tjobbe]

the main reason why I asked is that I have e.g the Art Pepper or the Dolphy already as "normal" german ZYX 20bit remaster and already there the Pepper sounded great, but I know from other recordings that some re-masters (e.g. the Analogue Productions) do get much more out of the original tapes.

Unfortunally (as Claude mentioned) the first batch was rather not using the sonically best recordings but maybe some best selling ones.

Cheers, Tjobbe

[tjobbe]

  Guy Berger said:

Furthermore, could anyone comment on the CD sound of the hybrids? I only have a CD player and was thinking of picking up Dolphy's Out There. I don't own it yet and am not sure whether I want to pay almost double the price.

Guy

let me say it that way Guy, my experience with some hybrids is that they are even as good if not better normal CD's and a good choice

And often they are on a K2 re-master level (some techies do believe that an SBM "downgrade" of the DSD track is done to produce the red-book layer). So if you get them on promotion and compare with prieces of the K" remasters Fanatsy did, you're not to bad when it comes to pricing

Cheers, Tjobbe

[Claude]

  tjobbe said:

the main reason why I asked is that I have e.g the Art Pepper or the Dolphy already as "normal" german ZYX 20bit remaster and already there the Pepper sounded great

I had the Art Pepper+Eleven ZYX CD too, and then got the US K2 remastered version, which sounds much better, although the ZYX is one of their most acceptable remasterings.

But I have doubts that there is much difference between the K2 CDs and SACDs, because the K2s are very good transfers, done by the XRCD engineers.

So while I would hesitate to upgrade from K2s (or XRCDs) to the SACDs, I would buy the SACDs if I only had an unsatisfactory early remaster or a ZYX CD. At discounted prices, they are not more expensive than the K2s.

I ordered the Art Pepper for comparision.

[tjobbe]

Guys,

an update from my side:

I recieved some news from ZYX today that they will release the following SACD's in Europe on 15th March:

CSA 7568-6 Modern Jazz Classics PEPPER, ART + ELEVEN

DSA 124-6 Jazz At Massey Hall QUINTET, THE

NJSA 8252-6 Out There DOLPHY, ERIC

NJSA 8276-6 Kenny Burrell & John Coltrane BURRELL, KENNY & COLTRANE

PRSA 7047-6 Tenor Madness ROLLINS, SONY

PRSA 7129-6 Relaxin DAVIS, MILES / QUINTET

RISA 1142-6 Kelly Blue KELLY, WYNTON / TRIO & SEXTET

RISA 1157-6 In San Francisco ADDERLEY, CHANNOBALL / QUINTET

SXSA 88002-6 Shaft HAYES, ISSAC

Prices not 100% clear but I paid roughly 15€ each for a batch of 5 last time.

As with the last batch they will take the US master and simply use this, so no fear of the famous mastering technique here..

Best regards, Tjobbe

[Claude]

I received my order from CDUniverse today. All the Fantasy SACDs are mastered by Fantasy at Berkeley, whereas the latest K2 CD versions were remastered at JVC. This lets one expect at least a difference in remastering.

- Art Pepper + Eleven sounds very smooth and full, without lacking detail. In comparision, the US K2 CD version sounds a bit steely and at the same time muddy. The upgrade was definitely worth it. This is my 4th digital version of this album

- The Quintet - Jazz at Massey Hall sounds much better than on my late 80's CD, but this is most likely due to the remastering. I haven't heard the K2 version. This is no audiophile recording of course, and is has some drop outs too, like the previous CD versions

I have yet to give Cannonball Adderley - In San Francisco a listen

[tjobbe]

Thanks Claude for the short review... as those three where mainly the same that I had on my short list (The Pepper would be my third version )

The Wynton Kelly is on my list for the SACD's...

Cheers, Tjobbe

[Claude]

The Cannonball Adderley SACD is another sonic winner (I assume that the music on these SACDs is well known). I have no CD to compare it with (I gave the CD away before receiving the SACD), so I limit myself to the absolute sound quality.

It is an excellent live recording, very natural and lively. The only flaws are the boxy sound of the piano (recorded with just one microphone) and the saturation of the mic or tape during the loudest bass drum hits.

Like the others, this SACD sounds very smooth, with no trace of harshness. I don't know if this is due to the hi-rez technology or the remastering, but it seems that Fantasy has achieved true audiophile quality with this SACD batch (with reservations on the recording quality of the Massey Hall disc). I can't see how MFSL or Analogue Productions could have done better. The Cannonball SACD has been remastered by Kirk Felton, the other two by Joe Tarantino.

Edited February 5, 2004 by Claude

[J.A.W.]

I just received the Wynton Kelly (Kelly Blue), Miles Davis (Relaxin') and Eric Dolphy (Out There) hybrids, and I'm waiting for the Cannonball Adderley (In San Francisco). I'll compare the CD layers with my XRCDs (Kelly, Miles), U.S. 20-bit K2 (Adderley) and Japanese 20-bit Digital K2 (Dolphy)

[J.A.W.]

I've compared the XRCD and CD-layer of

and the SACD is a clear winner. It's warmer, yet more detailed and transparent than the XRCD.

The SACD is highly recommended, and, most important of all, the music is great!

Edited February 8, 2004 by J.A.W.

[sal]

Eric Dolphy's "Out There" sounds really, really nice. Very vibrant and clear. The Adderley one is good too, though not much better than the previous issue IMO.

[J.A.W.]

I've just compared the CD layer of

and my Japanese 20-bit Digital K2 remastered version, and the SACD is a bit warmer and more detailed, but the differences are very minor.

[J.A.W.]

Another comparison, the CD layer of

and my XRCD version. The SACD sounds much better, especially in the mid-high region.

Edited February 8, 2004 by J.A.W.