mmilovan Posted January 19, 2004 Report Posted January 19, 2004 Noticing slight imperfection in JATP 1944-49 issue (I made fast comparisons with some discographies), I wonder how many concerts from 1949 till, let's say 1960 were issued on various media (vinyl, CDs and so on)? Why am I asking all this? I've heard some marvelous, mad swinging, white heated JATP concert while guessing musicians and date. Finally, I fixed date around 1952, and there were Illinois Jacquet, Lester Young, Charlie Shavers, Buddy Rich... Pres played some marvelous 4 bar leap, and Shavers played beautiful extended solo. It is a pity that all that great music is hardly available to wide public. I played some 1944-49 concert discs to large variety of people (many of them never listened to jazz), and they said they like it very, very much! And of course, I am among those whose jaws are dropped right down to the floor, every time I listen to it, and never consider those dates as circus. Quote
mmilovan Posted January 20, 2004 Author Report Posted January 20, 2004 Geee, nobody interested... Quote
brownie Posted January 20, 2004 Report Posted January 20, 2004 Milan, the problem with the JATP concerts records from the fifties is that they're in some kind of a mess. There has been no serious attempt to release them in CD like the JATP box with the '40s concerts. Back in LP days, a dozen JATP albums that originally appeared as LP boxes on the Clef label with names like JATP box volume 15 or 16 were reissued as single Verve LPs in the early '80s when the label was owned by Polygram. Some of the LPs that came out then had album titles like 'The Trumpet Battle 1952', 'One O'Clock Jump 1953', 'The Challenges 1954', 'Blues in Chicago 1955'. With the exception of years 1951 and 1956, the JATP tours of the fifties all produced record albums, most of them in vinyls. It seems time for a Verve effort to release a second JATP CD box with that material! But will Verve do that? Quote
Brad Posted January 21, 2004 Report Posted January 21, 2004 Good suggestion from Brownie. I wanted to respond but it's a little hard. There's a bunch of stuff listed on AMG but I'm not sure how through it will be for your purposes. Plus, let's not forget that Norman Granz kept at least one JATP for himself (might there be others?) not owned by Verve. I only have one JATP from the 50s (and it's not on Verve); it's a concert in Japan. It wasn't as dynamic as the 40s stuff unfortunately. Quote
Brad Posted January 21, 2004 Report Posted January 21, 2004 As a follow up, I took a brief look at the web and unfortunately couldn't find a discography for JATP. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted January 21, 2004 Report Posted January 21, 2004 Everyone should remember Verve only has the tapes involved in Granz's sale of Norgran/Clef/Verve to MGM (now part of Universal/whatever). Other tapes in his posession went to Fantasy when they bought Pablo from him. There may still be more. Quote
JSngry Posted January 21, 2004 Report Posted January 21, 2004 That 1960(?) JATP IN EUROPE stuff would make a nice set too. Was it ever released "under one roof", or just in individual albums? The jam w/Getz, Byas, and Hawk is choice. Quote
brownie Posted January 21, 2004 Report Posted January 21, 2004 The JATP IN EUROPE came out in four single LPs. All recorded in Stockholm in 1960. Never heard of a box of those. Nice music there. There also was a double LP JATP in London 1969 with an interesting lineup (Dizzy, Clark Terry, Moody, Zoot Sims, Hawkins, Carter, Teddy Wilson) PLUS T-Bone Walker. That was recorded in London in 1966. Shades of the 'Basie in London' album that was recorded in Sweden! Quote
mmilovan Posted January 21, 2004 Author Report Posted January 21, 2004 Back in LP days, a dozen JATP albums that originally appeared as LP boxes on the Clef label with names like JATP box volume 15 or 16 were reissued as single Verve LPs in the early '80s when the label was owned by Polygram. Some of the LPs that came out then had album titles like 'The Trumpet Battle 1952', 'One O'Clock Jump 1953', 'The Challenges 1954', 'Blues in Chicago 1955'. It seems to me that I've heard Trumpet Battle from 1952 - one tune from that album. And if it is what I've heard, it's awesome!!! Quote
brownie Posted January 21, 2004 Report Posted January 21, 2004 'The Trumpet Battle 1952' reissued sides from the September 13, 1952 JATP concert at Carnegie Hall. The tunes were: - Jam Session Blues, - The Ballad Medley, - The Trumpet Battle. The all-star cast was: Roy Eldridge,Charlie Shavers, Bennie Carter, Flip Phillips, Lester Young, Oscar Peterson, Barney Kessel, Ray Brown, Buddy Rich. Wow! Will play this before the night is over! Quote
jazzbo Posted January 21, 2004 Report Posted January 21, 2004 "Blues in Chicago 1955" would make a great reissue! Quote
mmilovan Posted January 21, 2004 Author Report Posted January 21, 2004 (edited) 'The Trumpet Battle 1952' reissued sides from the September 13, 1952 JATP concert at Carnegie Hall. The tunes were: - Jam Session Blues, - The Ballad Medley, - The Trumpet Battle. The all-star cast was: Roy Eldridge,Charlie Shavers, Bennie Carter, Flip Phillips, Lester Young, Oscar Peterson, Barney Kessel, Ray Brown, Buddy Rich. Wow! Will play this before the night is over! It is not "Ballad Medley" what I heard, it is probably "The Trumpet Battle" (if it has one characteristic Pres few bars leap at the end of a bridge) Anyway it is fantastic live jamm, done by some of my favourite players, ever. The essence of jazz. Lucky you! Edited January 21, 2004 by mmilovan Quote
brownie Posted January 21, 2004 Report Posted January 21, 2004 Milan, guess what? Could not wait to listen to that LP. And yes, it's pretty obvious that the tune you're looking for is 'The Trumpet Battle' where Lester and Flip Phillips have a short duo shortly after the start of the proceedings. I used to not be much of a fan of those brash JATP confrontations but I must have really changed 'cause I love hearing those now. Bennie Carter is on fire here and any battle where Roy Eldridge is involved has me thrilled; And when he is battling Charlie Shavers, it's pure joy. Our man Lester has a great solo on the 'Jam Session Blues' and plays a superb 'I Can't Get Started' in the ballad medley. Verve should reissue this. Hope you'll be able to hear it too soon! Quote
mmilovan Posted January 21, 2004 Author Report Posted January 21, 2004 (edited) Where is Verve involved, you'll never know... But, what lineup - Carter, Shavers, Eldridge, Phillips, Young, Peterson, Kessel, Brown, Rich!!! Speking of issuing procedure, I am also unhappy there are a few holes in 1944-49 set. BTW, I think we forgot to mention Krupa/Rich battle. Edited January 21, 2004 by mmilovan Quote
king ubu Posted January 22, 2004 Report Posted January 22, 2004 One more CD from the 1960 JATP in Europe tour came out on Fantasy/Pablo recently. No jam affair, but rather Shelly Manne's quintet (Gordon, Kamuca, Freeman and Budwig). Rather nice, and previously unissued, but not what you are looking for, Milan. How about jam/regular groups - the 1957 US JATP tour (the 18th and last in the US, as I read in the booklet of the Hawkins/Eldridge at the Opera House CD) seemed to feature several more or less fix units: Hawk & Roy with Lewis and the MJQ's bassist and drummer, Heath & Kay; the MJQ, Oscar Peterson's trio with some drummer; Stan Getz & J.J. with OP trio & same drummer; Ella - these are the ones under whose names "At the Opera House" LPs were released (take this from the same CD booklet). Now the 1993 reissue of the Hawk/Little Jazz material adds an extended jam on "Stuffy" (with Roy, J.J., Getz, Hawk, Prez, Lewis, Heath, Kay), without giving information where this one was originally released. My question: were there always some all star concerts & jams included? Or just like everybody gathered at the end of the show to do one number together (as could have been the case with "Stuffy")? And: do you count all those recordings as JATP affairs? (even if it's , as with "Ella at the Opera House" or the Hawk/Eldridge disc, just a small unit that most probably performed in the same configuration every night of the tour) Or is the label JATP only used (as it most often is, at least in casual use) for all star jam recordings? And one more thing: there's some online discography of the Verve label (far from complete, I think, but I am not sure about it), which starts listing "Norman Granz Jam Sessions" beginning in the fifties - what's their relationship to JATP? Same thing, new name? ubu Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted January 22, 2004 Report Posted January 22, 2004 And one more thing: there's some online discography of the Verve label (far from complete, I think, but I am not sure about it), which starts listing "Norman Granz Jam Sessions" beginning in the fifties - what's their relationship to JATP? Same thing, new name? ubu The Norman Granz Jam Sessions were studio recordings. Quote
Brad Posted January 22, 2004 Report Posted January 22, 2004 (edited) That Manne CD is not bad. Just worth getting for Richie Kamuca. Also, wasn't there another JATP cd of Gerry Mulligan that Fantasy released a couple of years ago? Here's the link to the Mulligan Cd. Edited January 22, 2004 by Brad Quote
king ubu Posted January 22, 2004 Report Posted January 22, 2004 Thanks for the info on the Granz Jams, Chuck! Brad, there's a Cannonball CD from 1960, too: http://www.fantasyjazz.com/catalog/adderley_c_cat2.html (sorry, I can't add links at the moment) ubu Quote
mikeweil Posted January 22, 2004 Report Posted January 22, 2004 http://www.fantasyjazz.com/catalog/adderley_c_cat2.html (sorry, I can't add links at the moment) Ubu, the link is right there! Problem solved? Quote
brownie Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 There were several CDs released on the Pablo label similar to the Shelly Manne CD. There were sets by Cannonball Adderley, Gerry Mulligan, Duke Ellington, Ray Charles and others. All these were from concerts produced by Norman Granz, some of them under the JATP banner. From a genuine JATP tour, there was a Pablo CD 'JATP Frankfurt 1952' that had sections of a JATP concert where Roy Eldridge, Lester Young and Flip Phillips were featured. Quote
king ubu Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 http://www.fantasyjazz.com/catalog/adderley_c_cat2.html (sorry, I can't add links at the moment) Ubu, the link is right there! Problem solved? Mike, problem not solved at all! I just copied the URL directly into the text field and it works. brownie: I think I saw that Ellington CD once. Thanks for your information. That Frankfurt disc sounds cool, gotta look for it. ubu Quote
brownie Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 Should also have mentioned the excellent 'Paris Blues' CD by the Horace Silver quintet that Pablo released last year. That was from a 1962 Norman Granz concert, too. Granz introduces the concert on the opening track. Quote
king ubu Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 Should also have mentioned the excellent 'Paris Blues' CD by the Horace Silver quintet that Pablo released last year. That was from a 1962 Norman Granz concert, too. Granz introduces the concert on the opening track. Yes! I have this one, excellent indeed! But no sign of JATP on that cover, yes? I did not check. ubu Quote
king ubu Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 AMG: In 1944, producer Norman Granz organized a concert billed as "Jazz at the Philharmonic" (also JATP) as a fundraiser in Los Angeles. The event, which was recorded, featured Illinois Jacquet, Jack McVea, J.J. Johnson, Shorty Sherock, and a rhythm section with Nat King Cole and Les Paul; Jacquet's playing in particular caused a bit of a sensation. After a few more similar events, Granz in 1946 began organizing extensive annual tours using classic swing and bop musicians in a jam-session setting. Although some critics often complained that these events encouraged grandstanding (R&B honking was getting popular during the era), a great deal of rewarding and exciting music resulted, and Granz recorded (and later released) much of it on his Verve label. He paid his musicians very well and did his best to fight racism every bit of the way. Among JATP's stars through the years were tenors Flip Phillips (whose solo on "Perdido" became famous), Jacquet, Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, Ben Webster, and Stan Getz; trumpeters Roy Eldridge, Charlie Shavers, Dizzy Gillespie, and Harry "Sweets" Edison; trombonists Bill Harris and Tommy Turk; altoists Charlie Parker, Willie Smith, and Benny Carter; pianists Hank Jones and Oscar Peterson; a variety of bassists (often Ray Brown); and drummers Louie Bellson, Gene Krupa, and Buddy Rich. Ella Fitzgerald started touring with JATP early on, usually having her own separate set and joining in on a finale, and later tours often also included performances by regular groups such as the Oscar Peterson Trio, Gene Krupa's combo, Stuff Smith, or Lester Young. After 1957, the annual tours stopped, although there was an attempt to revive JATP in 1967; and Granz kept the spirit of Jazz at the Philharmonic alive on his many jam session-type records for Pablo in the 1970s. some available CDs: Frankfurt 1952 Hartford 1953 Tokyo 1953 London 1969 Montreux 1975 Montreux again Tokyo 1983 OOP or not on CD material: Trumpet Battle 1952 (mentioned before) Krupa / Rich (also mentioned before) Then AMG mentions 10 LPs (not yet on CD) released in 1983. And things seem to be pretty chaotic... I gotta look for some of this stuff! ubu Quote
king ubu Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 (edited) Fantasy lists some more: http://www.fantasyjazz.com/catalog/jatp_cat.html and http://www.fantasyjazz.com/catalog/jatp_cat2.html Several by some artist, some of those Montreux jams, and: - Stockholm 1955, The Exciting Battle - the recently released JATP at Carnegie Hall 1949 - JATP the Greatest Concert in the World (3CD) - JATP, Jazz at the Santa Monica Civic '72 (3CD) Anyone can comment on any of the available releases? ubu Edited January 23, 2004 by king ubu Quote
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