NBA 2012

[ejp626]

Oh man Durant got mugged right in front of the official on his last shot by LeBron. And then LeBron traveled with the ball after he grabbed the rebound.

I guess Stern is happy now.

Yeah, pretty terrible way to end a game when the refs blew quite a number of calls and ended up essentially deciding the game. Maybe it is selective memory that they all seemed to go against OKC (the goal tending call that wasn't etc.) but it sure left a bad taste in my wife's mouth.

I don't quite understand why she keeps watching when she has such low regard for the refs, but I guess that's her business.

[Quincy]

I don't quite understand why she keeps watching when she has such low regard for the refs, but I guess that's her business.

I'm in the same boat. It reminds of when between 4th and almost 6th grade I watched wrestling thinking it might be real, but I can't help myself.

I'm oddly relieved LeBron made the shot following that if-you-don't-make-it (and he didn't) shot at the top of key it's a dumb shot and also he made all of his free throws tonight, including the 2 at the end. It just would have been too easy & too much tearing him apart had he failed in either instance as that's all we'd hear about for the next few days. Other guys do it too, but it drives me nuts how often he'll jump and then pass as he's coming down. I know, this makes me sound old. I'm stumped to think of other players who play point guard and power forward in the same game, so he's right about having "talents."

Oh hell, despite some questionable calls (what else is new) it's shaping up to be a hell of a series. And it's big fun to see Durant and the rest of the Thunder during the (west coast) dinner hour.

[paul secor]

I have no real argument with what you've said, I was just giving my answer to your question: "Who in any sport ever has been held to this kind of standard?!"

But leaving aside the obvious difference that most of the NBA games in 1962 were never even filmed, let alone given the media exposure or public attention of the 2012 NBA, even Wilt wasn't expected by anyone to do the kinds of stuff that's expected of Lebron. The onus to win a team game with individual effort is on Lebron in a way it never was on Wilt. That's all I'm saying. When people talk about why the Warriors couldn't beat the Celtics, nobody points their finger and says "Wilt couldn't get it done." The reverse is true for LeBron - rather than ask why no Heat role player could score consistently enough in the 2011 Finals to give LeBron some time to rest, instead the narrative is all about LeBron shrinking in the fourth quarter.

Back then - and I was around - people did say, "Wilt couldn't get it done." There was always the comparison with Wilt and Bill Russell. Wilt got the numbers, but Russell got the championships. Similar to discussions today.

[Matthew]

196 points in the game tonight

Hehe, people were probably freakin' out in sports book parlors when LaBron hit the free throws to put it over the line -- I always hated action like that on my bet.

[BruceW]

Yeah you made a good call.

It irks me that everyone in the world saw that last foul by James except the refs (all 3 of them). Yeah it would have only been 98-98 but then we might have had a fair overtime.

[PHILLYQ]

There was a play late in the game where LBJ had the ball and was in the lane and it looked to me that LBJ elbowed the defensive player, who wound up on his back. The angle wasn't very clear so I wasn't 100% sure, and Van Gundy said it was not a foul. I'm sure there are multiple cameras covering everything- would it kill ABC/Disney/ESPN to show another angle and let us see for sure? I sure can't take JVG's word as he's blowing up the hype-meter.

[ejp626]

There was a play late in the game where LBJ had the ball and was in the lane and it looked to me that LBJ elbowed the defensive player, who wound up on his back. The angle wasn't very clear so I wasn't 100% sure, and Van Gundy said it was not a foul. I'm sure there are multiple cameras covering everything- would it kill ABC/Disney/ESPN to show another angle and let us see for sure? I sure can't take JVG's word as he's blowing up the hype-meter.

I've basically given up on watching NBA (the last sport I did watch). But I really cannot stand JVG's commentary (even heard from the other room). Even he admitted that LeBron totally mugged Durant on the final play, but with 15 seconds was cheering him on for being such a force in the game. Yeah, quite a force when given virtually all the breaks by the refs... If Miami does win it all, it really isn't deserved in my book.

The good thing about not caring about sports is that within 6 months of the hype dying down, I literally could not tell you who won any of the various national championships.

[Chalupa]

IMHO, the NBA's officiating is more of a threat to the integrity of the game than the use, or perceived use, of PEDs. You would think that after the Tim Donaghy betting scandal the NBA would have really gotten serious about officiating but no. If anything it appears the officiating has gotten worse.

[Matthew]

IMHO, the NBA's officiating is more of a threat to the integrity of the game than the use, or perceived use, of PEDs. You would think that after the Tim Donaghy betting scandal the NBA would have really gotten serious about officiating but no. If anything it appears the officiating has gotten worse.

Completely agree, Stern keeps his head buried in the sand about the integrity issues the league has, e.g., officiating of the games, the whole Charlotte bs of a NBA owned team getting the no.1 draft pick, nixing the Chris Paul trade to the Lakers, etc. Stern needs to retire after the season and let a new person take over as Commissioner.

[bneuman]

IMHO, the NBA's officiating is more of a threat to the integrity of the game than the use, or perceived use, of PEDs. You would think that after the Tim Donaghy betting scandal the NBA would have really gotten serious about officiating but no. If anything it appears the officiating has gotten worse.

Completely agree, Stern keeps his head buried in the sand about the integrity issues the league has, e.g., officiating of the games, the whole Charlotte bs of a NBA owned team getting the no.1 draft pick, nixing the Chris Paul trade to the Lakers, etc. Stern needs to retire after the season and let a new person take over as Commissioner.

I'm wondering -- has anybody in this thread who has spouted conspiracy theories about NBA refereeing ever attempted to referee a basketball game? Of any sort, at any level. I would say basketball is the most difficult to officiate of the four major professional sports. There is constant motion, everywhere on the court, in all directions. (Except maybe when the Heat get into one of their lulls on offense -- then everyone just stands around for 15 seconds.) What's more, there is so much about the game that is open to interpretation. Multiple fouls could plausibly be called on every single possession. It is up to the referees to interpret the game according to some reasonable standard appropriate for the game, to keep that standard fair throughout the game (although they may adjust in order to clamp down on a game that gets too heated, etc), to incorporate into their officiating whatever directives have been handed down by Stern & Co this week, and to effectively discern between "real" fouls, "flops", and "flops" intended to sell a "real" foul. All while running up and down the court with the players for 48 minutes. It is not an easy job.

It is very easy, meanwhile, to notice after watching a slow-motion instant replay three or five times that of course that ref was wrong, gosh what was that bonehead thinking?

If you want to argue that there should be more instant replay, a ref in a booth just to review calls immediately, etc, I'm all for it. I wonder where they will find more refs though, given how apparently incompetent this batch is. Does anybody have any tales of elite basketball referees who have been shut out of the NBA because of David Stern's massive conspiracy to make refereeing bad?

Of course, the best source for the NBA ref conspiracy theory stuff is Tim Donaghy - a gambling addict who fixed games and then tried to make money and third-rate fame off a sensationalist "tell-all" book. He is pretty much the only person with any real connection to the game who insists there is massive conspiracy and corruption. He insists this in opposition to what pretty much everybody else involved with the game, broadcasting it, intelligently analyzing it, etc, say. Somehow, conspiracy theorists twist this into evidence for the existence of a conspiracy. The entire rational world disagreeing with Donaghy proves there is a conspiracy -- it's a massive conspiracy to disagree with him to cover up the massive refereeing conspiracy!

Donaghy had a column on Deadspin a year or two ago during the playoffs. He was supposed to put together a highlight reel each night of bad calls that proved refs were corrupt. His reels indicated nothing of the sort. The column quietly disappeared.

Read:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/16542/tim-donaghys-questionable-punditry

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4603209

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11341/did-dick-bavetta-prop-up-weaker-teams

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/5449/if-there-was-another-tim-donaghy-today-would-he-be-caught

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11340/tim-donaghys-claims-on-trial

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11341/tim-donaghys-tale-of-dick-bavetta

(Of course that's on ESPN...so it's part of the conspiracy.)

As for the bullshit about the lottery being rigged in Charlotte's favor:

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/05/31/an-nba-draft-lottery-conspiracy-it-didnt-seem-that-way/

(That's on Sports Illustrated though...not ESPN, not as closely aligned, but still. Conspiracy!)

[Matthew]

IMHO, the NBA's officiating is more of a threat to the integrity of the game than the use, or perceived use, of PEDs. You would think that after the Tim Donaghy betting scandal the NBA would have really gotten serious about officiating but no. If anything it appears the officiating has gotten worse.

Completely agree, Stern keeps his head buried in the sand about the integrity issues the league has, e.g., officiating of the games, the whole Charlotte bs of a NBA owned team getting the no.1 draft pick, nixing the Chris Paul trade to the Lakers, etc. Stern needs to retire after the season and let a new person take over as Commissioner.

I'm wondering -- has anybody in this thread who has spouted conspiracy theories about NBA refereeing ever attempted to referee a basketball game? Of any sort, at any level. I would say basketball is the most difficult to officiate of the four major professional sports. There is constant motion, everywhere on the court, in all directions. (Except maybe when the Heat get into one of their lulls on offense -- then everyone just stands around for 15 seconds.) What's more, there is so much about the game that is open to interpretation. Multiple fouls could plausibly be called on every single possession. It is up to the referees to interpret the game according to some reasonable standard appropriate for the game, to keep that standard fair throughout the game (although they may adjust in order to clamp down on a game that gets too heated, etc), to incorporate into their officiating whatever directives have been handed down by Stern & Co this week, and to effectively discern between "real" fouls, "flops", and "flops" intended to sell a "real" foul. All while running up and down the court with the players for 48 minutes. It is not an easy job.

It is very easy, meanwhile, to notice after watching a slow-motion instant replay three or five times that of course that ref was wrong, gosh what was that bonehead thinking?

If you want to argue that there should be more instant replay, a ref in a booth just to review calls immediately, etc, I'm all for it. I wonder where they will find more refs though, given how apparently incompetent this batch is. Does anybody have any tales of elite basketball referees who have been shut out of the NBA because of David Stern's massive conspiracy to make refereeing bad?

Of course, the best source for the NBA ref conspiracy theory stuff is Tim Donaghy - a gambling addict who fixed games and then tried to make money and third-rate fame off a sensationalist "tell-all" book. He is pretty much the only person with any real connection to the game who insists there is massive conspiracy and corruption. He insists this in opposition to what pretty much everybody else involved with the game, broadcasting it, intelligently analyzing it, etc, say. Somehow, conspiracy theorists twist this into evidence for the existence of a conspiracy. The entire rational world disagreeing with Donaghy proves there is a conspiracy -- it's a massive conspiracy to disagree with him to cover up the massive refereeing conspiracy!

Donaghy had a column on Deadspin a year or two ago during the playoffs. He was supposed to put together a highlight reel each night of bad calls that proved refs were corrupt. His reels indicated nothing of the sort. The column quietly disappeared.

Read:

http://espn.go.com/b...onable-punditry

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=4603209

http://espn.go.com/b...up-weaker-teams

http://espn.go.com/b...ld-he-be-caught

http://espn.go.com/b...claims-on-trial

http://espn.go.com/b...of-dick-bavetta

(Of course that's on ESPN...so it's part of the conspiracy.)

As for the bullshit about the lottery being rigged in Charlotte's favor:

http://nba-point-for...-seem-that-way/

(That's on Sports Illustrated though...not ESPN, not as closely aligned, but still. Conspiracy!)

I'm not talking about any conspiracy theories, what I am saying is the the quality of the officiating is horrible, and that was a conscious decision made by Stern and the owners with the NBA referee strike in 1995. The outcome of that was to strive to have refs with no personality, and no guts, but a bunch of pliable nobodies who worship the superstars of the league. You do not need a conspiracy theory when the refs are crap and treat players like LaBron with kid gloves. Of course, the lottery was not "fixed," but frick-on-a-stick, anyone knows that the whole situation stinks to high heaven when the Commissioner of the NBA is making personnel decisions on a trade by some mysterious "player value" equation. These are conflict of interest cases that are, and should be, easily avoided, especially in today's blog-o-fanatic atmosphere.

edit for spelling

Edited June 15, 2012 by Matthew

[Mike Schwartz]

The super slo-mo replays makes NBA reffing, and other sports officials look pretty silly frequently.

I still don't understand in basketball when a shot is well on it's way, when a defender hits the hand or wrist of a shooter after the launch gets called.

Some games or parts of games they "let them play." WTF does that mean?

The days when the game was rougher were much better officiated games IMO.

They're so afraid a fight will break out, and they have all these degrees of flagrent fouls, which are somehow considered "extreme", regular fouls are frequent and for little ticky-tack touches and brushes.

Does anyone remember a travelling call or palming or rotary phones?

Edited June 15, 2012 by Mike Schwartz

[BruceW]

Yeah, those were the good ol' days.

[Matthew]

The Norm Van Lier & Jerry Sloan backcourt tandem could never exist nowadays.....

[Big Wheel]

I still don't understand in basketball when a shot is well on it's way, when a defender hits the hand or wrist of a shooter after the launch gets called.

The rule is that you must let the shooter complete his shot. Any contact, even after the release, breaks the rule and is a shooting foul. For the same reason you are not allowed to impede the shooter's landing space a la Bruce Bowen. The shot is gone, the shooter falls on your leg and turns his ankle, that's a foul.

Plenty of travels are called in the NBA. Illegal dribbles/palming you'll see every once in a while, but I think it's OK that this is rarely called because most palming occurs in situations where the spirit of the rule is not being violated. The idea is that the offensive player cannot palm the ball to get an unfair advantage over a defender who is in a position to make a steal. In the majority of cases in the NBA where the ball is palmed, the player (often a guard in the backcourt) is not being closely guarded by a defender, so the illegal dribble is totally inconsequential anyway - there's no unfair advantage being gained.

[Big Wheel]

I have no real argument with what you've said, I was just giving my answer to your question: "Who in any sport ever has been held to this kind of standard?!"

But leaving aside the obvious difference that most of the NBA games in 1962 were never even filmed, let alone given the media exposure or public attention of the 2012 NBA, even Wilt wasn't expected by anyone to do the kinds of stuff that's expected of Lebron. The onus to win a team game with individual effort is on Lebron in a way it never was on Wilt. That's all I'm saying. When people talk about why the Warriors couldn't beat the Celtics, nobody points their finger and says "Wilt couldn't get it done." The reverse is true for LeBron - rather than ask why no Heat role player could score consistently enough in the 2011 Finals to give LeBron some time to rest, instead the narrative is all about LeBron shrinking in the fourth quarter.

Back then - and I was around - people did say, "Wilt couldn't get it done." There was always the comparison with Wilt and Bill Russell. Wilt got the numbers, but Russell got the championships. Similar to discussions today.

Interesting. Today of course most of the discussion revolves around the Celtics having eight Hall of Famers during the stretch from 1960-62 (9 if you count Clyde Lovelette, 10 if you count Auerbach). The Warriors only had 3 (Chamberlain, Tom Gola, and Paul Arizin).

[Soulstation1]

IMO

Not sure if I'm buying the LBJ has more pressure on him winning his first ring vs Wilt winning his first

Wilt was destroying foolzzzz

[BruceW]

I can remember a whole lot of chatter back then about Wilt's winning his first one. He took a whole lot of flack when he removed himself from the game in one of those championship series. There was always a lot of chatter about Russell vs. Chamberlain and it always revolved around Wilt having no championships.

[paul secor]

I can remember a whole lot of chatter back then about Wilt's winning his first one. He took a whole lot of flack when he removed himself from the game in one of those championship series. There was always a lot of chatter about Russell vs. Chamberlain and it always revolved around Wilt having no championships.

I watched that game. As I remember, Wilt took himeself out with an injury in the 4th quarter. He never returned. Wilt's story was that he wanted to go back in but Laker coach Butch van Breda Kolff kept him on the bench.

In any event, the Celtics won and Wilt didn't get his second championship ring until 1972.

I've always been a Laker fan, but I probably respected Bill Russell more than any other player, so seeing him go out as a winner in his final season put some salve on the Lakers' loss.

[Soulstation1]

Game 3 line

Miami -4.5

O/U 193

My picks

Miami -4.5 and over 193 points

[Matthew]

Game 3 line

Miami -4.5

O/U 193

My picks

Miami -4.5 and over 193 points

My pick:

OKC -- think Oklahoma will beat the spread, teams seem very closely matched

O/U -- *Sigh* I'm going under again. Good thing I'm not putting $$$ on this series, I'd be broke.

[Bright Moments]

miami will win tonight!

[Soulstation1]

Greatest NBA Finals shot EVER

25 years ago

Edited June 18, 2012 by Soulstation1

[Matthew]

Greatest NBA Finals shot EVER

25 years ago

Loser Celtic Fan Still Whining About Bird's Missed Shot At The End

[Noj]

Re: NBA officiating

I watch the Lakers from preseason to postseason every year and I have since I was a kid. I typed this up earlier this year in an attempt to show how NBA officials will make the game flow for one team or the other:

NBA ref's recipe for biased officiating:

1. Quick whistle for on-the-floor touch foul to stop well-developing offensive play by the team you're cheating. Ball on the side, shot clock to 14 seconds.

2. Allow one team loads of off-the-ball contact while calling touch fouls on the team you wish to lose.

3. Get team you wish to win into the bonus as quickly as possible, preferably at the expense of a crucial starter for the team you're cheating.

4. Give any questionable out-of-bounds tip to the team you wish to win.

5. Just invent a travel call here and there against the team you wish to screw. Fouls can easily be construed as travels too, you know. Players stagger when someone lands on them.

6. Call illegal defense out of the clear blue sky to stop a run by the team you're cheating.

7. Obvious hacking fouls in the paint can easily be made into a no-call, or a jump ball.

8. The team you wish to win can reach in without consequence on any drive. It's a turnover!

9. There's no such thing as an over-the-back rebounding foul for the team you wish to win. The slightest contact from the team you're screwing is a loose-ball foul.

10. Technical fouls can be issued at any time for the slightest argument from the team you're cheating. Players on the team you wish to win can literally scream at you and spike the ball off the floor without catching it and it isn't a T.

It's a little more subtle than that, but it's still obvious to the trained eye when the officials are controlling the game. They'll even the calls out toward the end of a quarter after they've already decided the general score.