Charlie Parker Records 30CD set

[king ubu]

See #41 - not sure if the Collectables disc is that bad...

[felser]

You might not actually "hear" it literally, but you should probably sense it. The timbres of the instruments just seem a little "speedy", as do voices (if any).

All I know for sure to be off is the Rockland Place. Not sure about the rest of the live Bird, it might be ok, pretty sure the stuff with Wardell is. All the Pres stuff is ok, iirc. But - there's Dial stuff on here that has definitely been issued in improved sound if they're just using the original CP Records masters.

So yeah, it's a "good price", but good value? Not for me, and again, mileages will vary on that.

Request for clarification. Is the pitch problem just with the live music in the box, or also somehow with the studio stuff (which may pretty well ruin the entire box). There are enough interesting studio sessions to justify the box for me even if the live stuff is flawed.

[JSngry]

Live only. And only some of that.

It's a pet peeve of mine, seeing stuff still issued in the same flawed form for close to 50 years running now. I don't care if it's bootleg, somebody take a few hours with a computer and just fix it once and for all, ya' know? It's not that hard a thing to do these days. But nooooooooo.......just slop it on in, slop it on out, take the money and go slop some more.

I'm like, I've already got in the wrong form, I'll be damned if I keep on buying it in that form. It's kind of like asking for change to a counterfeit twenty in counterfeit fives and tens.

Edited April 1, 2012 by JSngry

[Big Beat Steve]

If anybody were to buy that box only for a scant few live recordings contained on maybe 3, 4 or 5 of those CDs then - then yes, you'd be unconditionally correct.

But at something like $1.30 per CD, who or what is anybody interested in a halfway substantial share of that music supposed to sneer at? That price is almost like giving the music away free (at least if you figure in the price of a decent blank and the time and therefore money saved on downloading, copying, CD-R'ing etc.) - just like you have propagated it sooooo often.

In short, at that kind of money one can just as well dump those items one is dissatisfied with and enjoy the rest. Sorry but almost every other approach sounds and reads like a mixture of sour grapes and fundamental nitpicking ("if I cannot enjoy it because my self-held criteria prevent me from doing so then I will go out of my way to make sure nobody else will enjoy it or at least I will see to it that he feels oh so guilty about it ....")

For that matter, as long as legit companies get away with putting shoddy product out at FULL price (and that still DOES happen, doesn't it?) then the field for improvement is wide open and P.D. companies are not the only culprits who need to clean up their act.

The field is wide open for lots of action ...

Edited April 1, 2012 by Big Beat Steve

[JSngry]

Well, cool. You don't have most/all of this material elsewhere and don't mind getting it this way. Good for you!

Me, I do, and I do. Good for me too!

[JSngry]

Did somebody fairly recently post a CD that had the Rockland Palace material in pitch-corrected form? I though it was in this thread, but apparently not?

I feel like hunting that sucker down, and a lead would be appreciated. TIA!

[Big Beat Steve]

You don't have most/all of this material elsewhere ...

Me, I do ...

Who would worry at all about a discussion about the pros and cons of getting a set of music if he already has all or almost all of it in his own collection and is satisfied with the quality of the pressings he owns?

Who would ...?

I wouldn't. It would be a discussion off my radar because I would just not be concerned.

But others would, and they seem to prefer either to worry or to rant to death about it.

What for?

Ulcers?

Beats me ...

BTW, my reasoning about getting this set was easy: I already had a fair share of it too.

But the price of the set in my currency is that of about 3 or 4 (or maybe 5) normally priced CD's worth of music. And there is much more than that in there that I did not have yet and would not have minded getting. And among some of those I already had (on vinyl), in the worst of the worst cases and at THAT price per CD the CDs from that box set could always come in handy for my car audio system. So I sprung for it.

It was and is worth it to me. And that counts. Nothing else.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Big Beat Steve

[king ubu]

Jim, I think it was mentioned somewhere that this version of the Rockland material was corrected:

Complete Legendary Rockland Palace Dance Date 1952 (Jazz Classics Records CD-JZCL-5014, rel. 1996)

On the back of the tray, it claims: "ALL performances are here with CORRECTLY issued for the ffirst time, running at proper pitch & correct key." Liners are by Doug Pomeroy (and I here with testify having bought it from amazon.com on February 1, 2004).

Btw, to me, it's mainly the non-Bird material that makes this box such an attractive offer.

I've not yet entered the zone where I can identify Bird boots and say "I've got that date on this release" and am far from having sorted all of it out (and even farther from actually knowing for real all the live Bird I've got on various releases).

[jazzbo]

Did somebody fairly recently post a CD that had the Rockland Palace material in pitch-corrected form? I though it was in this thread, but apparently not?

I feel like hunting that sucker down, and a lead would be appreciated. TIA!

Two cd set on the Jazz Classics label (formerly Stash). These sound right to me, but you would know better. Here's an article:

http://jazztimes.com/articles/9168-the-complete-legendary-rockland-palace-concert-charlie-parker

I haven't yet done any comparisons of the Parker material in the new box set, haven't gotten to those yet.

[JSngry]

Yes, I've found the pitch-corrected collection..two CDs, in no way an "official" label, no longer in print and now selling for $40.00 +. If these Membrant people had just taken the time (hours, just hours, literally, not days or weeks, just hours) to have fixed this issue, hell, I very well could have been a buyer myself! Hell, I feed off the bottom at least as much as anybody else, probably a helluva lot more!

But even at that...no. Not this. It's new, it's wrong, and...no. Not me.

Not only me and you, but future generations of bottom feeders (and there will be many!) could have had the material in proper form, cheap and right. But NOOOOOOO!!!! When neither suppliers nor consumers give a damn, hey...this is what we get. More of the same. And more still. And still more. Still. More.

Yawn.

Edited April 1, 2012 by JSngry

[JSngry]

Btw, to me, it's mainly the non-Bird material that makes this box such an attractive offer.

For me, it's only the Joe Caroll date w/Grant Green that I don't yet have, and hell, I can get that, it's not hard to find.

Having the Rockland Palace material in proper form would have been a big incentive to be to go ahead and get the rest of the stuff, since the whole shebang comes in at less than most of the Jazz Classics copies that can be found on a quick search.

Did somebody fairly recently post a CD that had the Rockland Palace material in pitch-corrected form? I though it was in this thread, but apparently not?

I feel like hunting that sucker down, and a lead would be appreciated. TIA!

Two cd set on the Jazz Classics label (formerly Stash). These sound right to me, but you would know better. Here's an article:

http://jazztimes.com...-charlie-parker

I haven't yet done any comparisons of the Parker material in the new box set, haven't gotten to those yet.

If you find that Mudbran has indeed issued the material at correct speed, please report back!

[romualdo]

Does anyone have the original LP code/number for Vol 26, The Charlie Parker All Stars (Royal Roost material from March 49)

It's not included in the Fitzgerald Charlie Parker Records listing & the Lord Discography also omits it (though does include vols 27-29 ie Historical masterpieces 701A, 701B &b 701C -> all Royal Roost)

These 4 discs are all in the Savoy Parker Live 4CD set

The Parker material is indeed a mixed/confusing bundle

[felser]

Wanted to mention that the Alice Darr session was the "newfound treasure" for me on this set. Lowe and Duvivier had also done a session with Sarah Vaughan the previous year. Darr is a different type of singer, but a very effective one, and this is a really nice set if you like singer/guitar/bass.

Alice Darr - I Only Know How To Cry

11 - I Only Know How To Cry (Moskatel - Lowe) (0:00)

12 - Yes, He’s Gone (Moskatel) (0:00)

13 - Love Does Funny Things (Neiburg - Woode) (0:00)

14 - Leave Me Alone (Moskatel - Lowe) (0:00)

15 - Under This Smile (Stride - Deane) (0:00)

16 - There He Goes (Varone) (0:00)

17 - The Lost And The Lonely (Lowe - Lowe) (0:00)

18 - I Can’t Find My Way Home (Slavska - Ashby) (0:00)

19 - It’s A Lonely World (Moskatel - Lowe) (0:00)

20 - Try, Try Again (Maurer) (0:00)

21 - Seasons Lost Love (Maurer - Fischbein) (0:00)

22 - You’re So Far Away From Me (Riviera - Canton - Dinton) (0:00)

Recorded May 18th, 1962 A&R Studio, New York City, Engineer Phil Ramone

Alice Darr, Voice - Mundell Lowe, Guitar - George Duvivier, bass.

[kh1958]

In case anyone is interested in this set who has a Half Price Books nearby, they are currently selling this box set for $60.

[CraigP]

In case anyone is interested in this set who has a Half Price Books nearby, they are currently selling this box set for $60.

Yes, snagged one a couple of days ago. Thanks for the heads-up.

[mjzee]

Jim, I think it was mentioned somewhere that this version of the Rockland material was corrected:

Complete Legendary Rockland Palace Dance Date 1952 (Jazz Classics Records CD-JZCL-5014, rel. 1996)

On the back of the tray, it claims: "ALL performances are here with CORRECTLY issued for the ffirst time, running at proper pitch & correct key." Liners are by Doug Pomeroy (and I here with testify having bought it from amazon.com on February 1, 2004).

Btw, to me, it's mainly the non-Bird material that makes this box such an attractive offer.

I've not yet entered the zone where I can identify Bird boots and say "I've got that date on this release" and am far from having sorted all of it out (and even farther from actually knowing for real all the live Bird I've got on various releases).

I've just found a used copy (in excellent condition, they say) from an Amazon Reseller for $16 + shipping.

[medjuck]

I just got this from Amazon. The personal listings etc on the Parker sides are obviously wrong. is there anyplace, person, site etc I might get the correct listings. I've tried to figure it out from Peter Losin's Bird discography but it looked like a lot of work to try to collate everything.

[king ubu]

Losin does not list these releases at all, I think? ... I never tried to figure it out - if you do, please post your results here! (Same goes for the Pres discs.)

Edited January 10, 2014 by king ubu

[mjzee]

I've been meaning to post some thoughts on the CP Records box, since I've owned it for 1 1/2 years. Here are my notes as to the Parker sides:

Disc 17: Bird Is Free. Rockland Palace 9/26/52. Not at correct speed.

Disc 18: The Happy Bird. 3 tracks (Happy Bird Blues, Scrapple From The Apple, I May Be Wrong) are from Christy's Restaurant, Framingham, MA, April 12, 1951. Howard McGhee, Bird, Wardell Gray, Nat Pierce, Jack Lawlor, Joe MacDonald. 1 track (I Remember April) from The Hi-Hat Club, Boston, MA, December 8-12, 1952. Joe Gordon, Bird, Bill Wellington, Dick Twardzik, Mingus, Roy Haynes.

Disc 19: Bird Symbols. Dial material with some fake echo.

Disc 20: Live At Rockland Palace. Speed issues.

Disc 21: Bird At The Apollo. August 17-23, 1950. Complete concert is on Philology volume 10. BATA also has 2 tracks by Stan Getz (Four Brothers and Early Autumn), perhaps from the same concert.

Disc 22: West Coast Time. Dial material with some fake echo.

Disc 23: Birdology. Royal Roost material, circa 1949. Probably all on the Savoy box.

Disc 24: Fragments. Sly Mongoose and My Little Suede Shoes are Rockland Palace. Cheryl, Barbados, Anthropology, Tunisia, and Salt Peanuts are probably Royal Roost material. Perdido and Little Willie Leaps might be Birdland 5/17/50.

Disc 25: Parker Plus Strings. Most of this is Apollo Theatre, NYC August 17-23, 1950. 5 tracks are Rockland Palace.

Disc 26: Charlie Parker All Stars. Most of this is Royal Roost material. Two tracks (Barbados and Anthropology) may be from Waldorf Astoria Hotel, NYC, 3/5/49. Bird, Dorham, Lucky Thompson, Al Haig, Tommy Potter, Max Roach.

Disc 27: Historical Performances 1. 5 tracks from Royal Roost, 4 tracks from Birdland 5/17/50 ("One Night At Birdland").

Disc 28: Historical Performances 2. Mostly "One Night At Birdland"; one track from Royal Roost.

Disc 29: Historical Performances 3. Royal Roost.

Disc 30: Charlie Parker - Lester Young. I don't know what this is; it might be an amalgam of tracks from other CPR albums. It does not appear to be 9/18/49.

Edited January 11, 2014 by mjzee

[medjuck]

Wow. Thanks Mrjzee.

[king ubu]

Thanks indeed!

And now that I read through your notes - I remember the Apollo material is definitely new to me indeed, and I did find out, but totally forgot to check it out so far.

[Big Beat Steve]

Yes, thanks Mjzee. Will stick a printout of your findings inside the box (which I bought just as much for various of the non-Bird sessions, BTW, and on an overall value-for-money tradeoff still am not too displeased )

Edited January 11, 2014 by Big Beat Steve

[mjzee]

Yes, thanks Mjzee. Will stick a printout of your findings inside the box (which I bought just as much for various of the non-Bird sessions, BTW, and on an overall value-for-money tradeoff still am not too displeased )

No, neither am I. I thought the jazz dates are worth the box (assuming you bought it at a good price).

[mjzee]

One other point: When these Bird albums came out, it's possible they filled a real need because the material wasn't otherwise readily available. But with the passage of time, superior releases have come out (the Savoy live package, the complete Dial & Savoy studio box, the corrected Rockland Palace, etc), so this Charlie Parker Records box now isn't a great way to hear this material.

[JSngry]

I've been meaning to post some thoughts on the CP Records box, since I've owned it for 1 1/2 years. Here are my notes as to the Parker sides:

Disc 27: Historical Performances 1. 5 tracks from Royal Roost, 4 tracks from Birdland 5/17/50 ("One Night At Birdland").

Disc 28: Historical Performances 2. Mostly "One Night At Birdland"; one track from Royal Roost.

Disc 29: Historical Performances 3. Royal Roost.

These came up here:

as being first released on Le Jazz Cool