Stefan Wood Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 I don't know if she didn't understand what she was getting into, but rather she came of age during a time where soul music had shed its roots and was becoming more produced or synthetic, washed down or removed of everything that made it what it was. Quote
JSngry Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) I don't know if she didn't understand what she was getting into, but rather she came of age during a time where soul music had shed its roots and was becoming more produced or synthetic, washed down or removed of everything that made it what it was. Nicholas Payton would have more of a field day with this than I could even begin to have, but...the two questions I always have when I hear something like this are - at what point does assimilation = loss of identity, and - what pains should the Assimilated take to be Readily Identifiable As Assimilated But Not Too Assimilated? In other words, is this thing gonna ever work, or not? Frankly, I don't know that too much of what I hear in Gospel music these days wears its "roots" like it once did, so... Edited February 15, 2012 by JSngry Quote
Stefan Wood Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Was Aretha "assimilated" when she signed on to Atlantic? Did the Atlantic people involved recognize that she had a talent that could (and should) not have followed her predecessors (like Dinah Washington that Columbia was trying to groom for her? Was it simply that Atlantic had the right writers and musicians for Aretha to become "the Queen of Soul"? How truly free can one assimilated artist be when the end goal was to have a top 10 hit? I'm with you to a point. Quote
JSngry Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Was America the same when Whitney came onto the scene as it was when Aretha signed to Atlantic? Would The Cosby Show have gotten made when Aretha signed to Atlantic? And, great skills aside, how long was Aretha's reputation as "the Queen of Soul" a mater of image rather than reality? Also, does assimilation come at the price of freedom come at the price of identity? Or is it all really nothing more than what you choose make of it at any given time? Can one have a new identity, or is the one you get the one you keep, anything else being fraudulent? Stuff like that. I guess the question is, how long (and how realistically) can one "look back" when one's circumstances start one further towards the from end of "success" than the back? And how right (not understandable, but right) is for those on the back end to clamor "stay, don't go" when those on the front end are pretty much all saying "c'mon in!"? If Whitney wasn't conflicted at the beginning of her career, I'd wager that she sure as hell was before it was all over (and that she's not been the only one...). I don't claim to have any answers, none at all. I don't think there are any answers, truthfully. America is like that. I just don't think that it's as easy as saying that "soul music shed its roots" or something like that. Quote
Larry Kart Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Eat your heart out, Whitney: Quote
ValerieB Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Guess I can't blame the Houston family for not wanting Bobby around but the man deserves to see his grown daughter Crazy that the hotel is renting Whitney's hotel room now who says he hasn't seen his daughter?!? and that hotel room is sealed! Quote
AllenLowe Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) two words, re the above argument: Bessie Johnson (buy the JSP gospel box) - (and I gotta add, at the risk of starting an argument, that the above Whitney Houston clip, How Will I know, sounds as corrupted as any contemporary, bad, white performance. She's working too hard. Get that JSP box, and you'll see why I say that. Check ot Sister Terrell, Rosetta Tharpe, Apollo-era Mahalia, Arizona Dranes. They wipe out all of Whitney and her followers). Edited February 16, 2012 by AllenLowe Quote
David Ayers Posted February 18, 2012 Report Posted February 18, 2012 Just ran away from the howling vulgarity of Alicia Keyes for some reason 'live' on the BBC at Whitney's funeral. Yikes. Even if she could hit the pitch and stay on it I'd hate it but I loathe that uh shall we call it 'popular microtonal' style. Quote
JSngry Posted February 18, 2012 Report Posted February 18, 2012 I've never gotten Alicia Keyes either. Quote
Dave James Posted February 18, 2012 Report Posted February 18, 2012 Let's review. The family wanted the funeral to be a private, so they limited to attendance to just 1,500 people AND they allowed it to be broadcast live on the BBC and CNN. I'd sure hate to see what would have happened if they'd opted to make it public. With respect (and I used that term loosely) to Alicia Keys, they should have invited T-Pain so he could have provided auto-tuning assistance. Just like so many others of her particular ilk, when she has to go it alone, it's an embarrassment. Quote
Noj Posted February 18, 2012 Report Posted February 18, 2012 One thing the over-singers have in common: they have crappy songs. Most of these so-called R&B acts have no songwriting talent whatsoever. Then someone like Adele comes along, and she DOES actually create quality songs, so she blows them all away. I've never heard a single enjoyable original song from Alicia Keys, Mariah, that god-awful Mary J. Blige, Rihanna...there's too many to list. Others like Erykah Badu and Jill Scott quite clearly have some talent in that regard, but I don't hear it from most of these gals so their appeal is a complete mystery to me. There seems to be a whole subgenre of R&B for that Mariah-type brand of substance-free vocal wanking. Quote
RDK Posted February 18, 2012 Report Posted February 18, 2012 I just hope America can recover from the tragic death of Ms. Houston. On the plus side, I hear there was a ceasefire in Syria during Stevie Wonder's tribute song. Quote
7/4 Posted February 18, 2012 Report Posted February 18, 2012 I just hope America can recover from the tragic death of Ms. Houston. On the plus side, I hear there was a ceasefire in Syria during Stevie Wonder's tribute song. There won't be any recovery around here. She's spending eternity at Fairview Cemetery in Westfield, NJ, just six miles from my apt. This just in...Whitney Houston is still dead. Quote
paul secor Posted February 18, 2012 Report Posted February 18, 2012 You know the old saying - It ain't over til the fat lady sings. Whover that may be. Quote
ValerieB Posted February 18, 2012 Report Posted February 18, 2012 i think you folks are totally mean-spirited. i agree in some cases about whose talent you like and don't, but this i thought was a Whitney RIP thread. and you guys have a choice about what singers you listen to. it's always "different strokes for different folks," but a little more respect is needed here, IMHO! Quote
Dave James Posted February 18, 2012 Report Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) i think you folks are totally mean-spirited. i agree in some cases about whose talent you like and don't, but this i thought was a Whitney RIP thread. and you guys have a choice about what singers you listen to. it's always "different strokes for different folks," but a little more respect is needed here, IMHO! Unfortunately, when something like this that should be very personal and private, is turned into a media circus and the family plays right into its hands by making a spectacle of the funeral service, it's difficult to stay on task. Edited February 18, 2012 by Dave James Quote
thedwork Posted February 18, 2012 Report Posted February 18, 2012 i think you folks are totally mean-spirited. i agree in some cases about whose talent you like and don't, but this i thought was a Whitney RIP thread. and you guys have a choice about what singers you listen to. it's always "different strokes for different folks," but a little more respect is needed here, IMHO! i'm with you ValerieB. big time. Quote
AllenLowe Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 it's relevant to discuss gospel and it's strange pop offshoots. No one was harmed in the making of this thread. Quote
ValerieB Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 i think you folks are totally mean-spirited. i agree in some cases about whose talent you like and don't, but this i thought was a Whitney RIP thread. and you guys have a choice about what singers you listen to. it's always "different strokes for different folks," but a little more respect is needed here, IMHO! Unfortunately, when something like this that should be very personal and private, is turned into a media circus and the family plays right into its hands by making a spectacle of the funeral service, it's difficult to stay on task. interestingly, from my perspective, the family did quite the opposite. the funeral was as personal and private as it could be. there was absolutely noting circus-like about it at all. just good friends and family. i streamed it on the internet and saw it with no commentary and it felt quite intimate. everyone who spoke had something very worthwhile to share, knew her well and obviously loved her. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 This woman lived her life, made her choices. This was done in public with rewards from the public. She received a bunch of rewards. The public has a right to react. Quote
ValerieB Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) This woman lived her life, made her choices. This was done in public with rewards from the public. She received a bunch of rewards. The public has a right to react. why didn't you just beat her up while she was alive?! what hautiness! and this on the day this troubled woman has been put in the ground. and you're the one who's cold, Chuck! Edited February 19, 2012 by ValerieB Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 This woman lived her life, made her choices. This was done in public with rewards from the public. She received a bunch of rewards. The public has a right to react. why didn't you just beat her up while she was alive?! what hautiness! and this on the day this troubled woman has been put in the ground. and you're the one who's cold, Chuck! Please tell me what post makes me "cold". What did I say? "Hautiness!"? get real. Quote
JSngry Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 Just ran away from the howling vulgarity of Alicia Keyes for some reason 'live' on the BBC at Whitney's funeral. Yikes. Even if she could hit the pitch and stay on it I'd hate it but I loathe that uh shall we call it 'popular microtonal' style. Ok, I still don't get Alicia Keyes, but...you gotta be pretty anal (or Anglo, if there's a difference, and I sure hope to god there is) about pitch to find fault with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGHH7VqKpQQ&feature=related "Howling vulgarity", eh? Two different worlds... Quote
David Ayers Posted February 19, 2012 Report Posted February 19, 2012 Pitch perfect and as tasteful as can be. What was I thinking? Like I'm going to sit through that cheesy schmaltz again. Quote
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