Quincy Jones: whats so great about this?

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

and whats up with JIMMY SMITH bustin the DX7 organ solo on "BAD"!! should of asked him about that (before he went completely mental)

[JSngry]

[Larry Kart]

Jim -- If you can't detect a certain disingenuousness in Q's remarks on Houston's passing, I've got a bridge you might want to purchase.

[Christiern]

Jim, I think you have painted yourself into a corner on this one. That video you posted does nothing for your Quincy defense.

[JSngry]

You guys are fucking clueless. Totally fucking clueless.

Stick to what you know.

[Teasing the Korean]

quincy jones isnt really that handsome, i mean hes ok, but i dunno

talking about when he was MUCH younger!

There's an early Mercury album cover where he looks like Satan. It's has a dark-red background and he has this evil grin.

[Christiern]

You guys are fucking clueless. Totally fucking clueless.

Stick to what you know.

It grieves me that I am so ignorant after spending a lifetime in the music business.

[Noj]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ralh_HdXLj4

Regardless of whatever, I love this.

[JSngry]

You guys are fucking clueless. Totally fucking clueless.

Stick to what you know.

It grieves me that I am so ignorant after spending a lifetime in the music business.

It grieves me that you are so much of a grudge-holder that once somebody gets on your Bitch List (even if for good reason) that you look for any and every opportunity to discredit anything they do

To imply that Quincy Jones played no role in the Michael Jackson albums other than standing back and "letting it all happen" while he put his name on it is just pitiful. I know people who were around for those sessions, and your claim is just pitifully wrong. There were teams at work (as is true with any project of the scope of these), but Quincy Jones made the "executive decisions" and guided the process all the way. But in the World Of Chris Albertson, no, Quincy Jones did some of my friends wrong 50 years ago, so Quincy Jones will never ever accomplish anything on his own volition and ability, no matter what. Anything with Quincy Jones' name on it is tarred with fraudulence. You will never be convinced you otherwise.

I take it back, I'm not grieved. It's not sad that you've become so myopic in your hate and paranoia, It's just...irrelevant to the real world. Michael Jackson records didn't get made in basements, with one guy and one tape recorder in one afternoon. They were very much corporate affairs. Stick to the world you know (and I know, you once roamed the halls of Columbia, full of loathing for John Hammond & Clive Davis).

To be sure, you have had a good life in the music business and can be proud of what you've done. But to think that you have any valid insight into the part of the industry that makes things like Michael Jackson records other than "It's full of bad people", hey, sorry, but...go pick on someone your own size, like Orin Keepnews.

[Christiern]

You guys are fucking clueless. Totally fucking clueless.

Stick to what you know.

It grieves me that I am so ignorant after spending a lifetime in the music business.

It grieves me that you are so much of a grudge-holder that once somebody gets on your Bitch List (even if for good reason) that you look for any and every opportunity to discredit anything they do

To imply that Quincy Jones played no role in the Michael Jackson albums other than standing back and "letting it all happen" while he put his name on it is just pitiful. I know people who were around for those sessions, and your claim is just pitifully wrong. There were teams at work (as is true with any project of the scope of these), but Quincy Jones made the "executive decisions" and guided the process all the way. But in the World Of Chris Albertson, no, Quincy Jones did some of my friends wrong 50 years ago, so Quincy Jones will never ever accomplish anything on his own volition and ability, no matter what. Anything with Quincy Jones' name on it is tarred with fraudulence. You will never be convinced you otherwise.

I take it back, I'm not grieved. It's not sad that you've become so myopic in your hate and paranoia, It's just...irrelevant to the real world. Michael Jackson records didn't get made in basements, with one guy and one tape recorder in one afternoon. They were very much corporate affairs. Stick to the world you know (and I know, you once roamed the halls of Columbia, full of loathing for John Hammond & Clive Davis).

To be sure, you have had a good life in the music business and can be proud of what you've done. But to think that you have any valid insight into the part of the industry that makes things like Michael Jackson records other than "It's full of bad people", hey, sorry, but...go pick on someone your own size, like Orin Keepnews.

You are letting your assumptions get the better of your judgement, Jim. I happen to be quite outspoken and unwilling to play the industry game. That may be a fault, but I prefer honesty when it comes to giving creative people their due. You may have noticed that I have expressed much admiration for the real achievement of John Hammond, and I have on several occasions voiced my gratitude to Clive Davis for the help he gave me by correcting some of John's less admirable moves (ones that affected me adversely). "Loathing" is not something I wander around with, not even in the "halls of Columbia." Disrespect? Sometimes, but that is something else. Apropos giving or not hiving praise, I have made and published positive observations regarding the work by Quincy (although not his trumpet work), but only when I thought the work was his. Ego-driven exaggeration is commonplace in the entertainment industry, so I accept that as a fact of life, but when it impairs someone else's career, I feel a need to speak up and tell it like it is. You seem to find fault with that—c'est la vie.

As for your assumption that I don't have "any valid insight" into the Michael Jackson (i.e. pop) side of the business, you would probably be surprised (shocked?) to learn how close I was to that scene.

Sorry to have rattled you so, but callous conjecture does not sit well with me.

Well, at least your posting count went up.

[king ubu]

[JSngry]

Sorry to have rattled you so, but callous conjecture does not sit well with me.

Nor bitter pissiness with me.

Back on ignore. My bad for thinking it could be otherwise.

[Noj]

I find this most irksome. Two people whose knowledge I hold in the highest regard, exchanging verbal jousts...

Then again, it's awesome to see such knowledge put to the test. My most heartfelt respects to both Chris and Jim--no matter the disagreement, you two are a big part of why the org board is such a consistently great read. I don't care either way about Quincy, lol.

[JSngry]

Sorry, Jon. My bad for not being disciplined enough to maintain the Ignore function.

No more.

[Christiern]

Rather childish, I think. Am I supposed to feel a loss?

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

king ubu what in the holy hell of all things holy IS that?

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

as thread starter i wish to contribute random chewy throught: do you think the cover for CORNBREAD looks too much like the cover for West Side Story?

[Big Beat Steve]

king ubu what in the holy hell of all things holy IS that?

A tongue-in-cheek record cover that should sit well with quite a few around here.

For the record, that EP includes the following tracks from various 1958 sessions:

Count'Em (the title track, obviously) / Meet Benny Bailey / Cherokee (the first two composed and arranged by Qunincy)

All (and much more) found on Dragon DRLP 139/140. Fine stuff.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Big Beat Steve

[Head Man]

Count'Em (the title track, obviously) / Meet Benny Bailey / Cherokee (the first two composed and arranged by Quincy)

Allegedly, of course!

[Big Beat Steve]

Well, the reissue on Dragon Records states it explicitly. And since a lot of the arrangements from those sessions were credited to others (Gösta Theselius, Harry Arnold and others) there is SOME credibility because if the credits would have been usurped what would have prevented him from usurping 'em all?

However, you ARE correct in one respect: The 1960 recording of Count'Em released on Argo LP 668 has Quincy Jones AND Jimmy Cleveland listed as the authors on the record back cover. So some percentage of the credits goes elsewhere after all.

[king ubu]

king ubu what in the holy hell of all things holy IS that?

A tongue-in-cheek record cover that should sit well with quite a few around here.

For the record, that EP includes the following tracks from various 1958 sessions:

Count'Em (the title track, obviously) / Meet Benny Bailey / Cherokee (the first two composed and arranged by Qunincy)

All (and much more) found on Dragon DRLP 130/140. Fine stuff.

Don't know that music yet... that page with Swedish covers over on Birka is amazing. I've merely scratched the surface with some Lars Gullin there.

[fasstrack]

Rather childish, I think. Am I supposed to feel a loss?

No, you're supposed to be embarrassed for acting like a child. But I guess now you'll want the last word again.

[Christiern]

I guess you're right, Joel. As my esteemed countryman, Hans Christian Andersen, wrote "Only from drunks and children does one hear the truth."

I do not drink beyond the occasional glass of wine with a worthy meal, but I do tell the truth—so, yes, I acted childishly.

BTW, I was hardly attempting to have "the last word." I count six posts between my last one and your gratuitous assumption. Makes me wonder who really felt a need to have that word.

[Mark Stryker]

Here's an interesting one that Bill Kirchner hipped me to during a conversation yesterday about Thad Jones. "Tea for the Two" from the Ella and Basie album circ 1964/65. Q is credited with the arrangments, but this one screams Thad -- the first 8-bar ensemble after the vocal would seem to be a big giveway -- angular bite to the melody and rhythm, crunch in the brass voicings, descending harmony. That's gotta be Thad

[JSngry]

Yeah, that's pretty obvious!

On the somewhat other side of the coin, there's that Thad "arrangement" of "Tuxedo Junction" for Harry James that's nothing more than a stock chart with a 32 bar Thad-composed sax soli in the middle. Everything else, purely stock. And I've played charts by Bob Brookmeyer and Al Cohn from the old Ralph Marterie book that were close enough to being stocks as to make no real difference. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they farmed at least some of those out to up-and-coming "assistants" or some such with some general instructions and final review and that was that.

Pens for hire, money to be had for both doing and semi-doing and just "facilitating". Plenty work, plenty workers, plenty money. Nice work if you can get it (and these days, you can't).