McCoy Tyner Question

[Gheorghe]

I remember I saw McCoy live in Vienna (march 1980) with a sextet featuring a violin player. But I don´t know who it was.

Does someone have informations about that special group McCoy Tyner had during that period?

[Pete C]

I remember I saw McCoy live in Vienna (march 1980) with a sextet featuring a violin player. But I don´t know who it was.

Does someone have informations about that special group McCoy Tyner had during that period?

I'd bet it was John Blake, who recorded a couple of times with Tyner in that period. Possibly some overlap with this lineup?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_%28McCoy_Tyner_album%29

[sidewinder]

Definitely John Blake. Can picture him now up on the bandstand in that white suit ! Saw that band with Blake around that period a couple of times (around 1981/82) and it was absolutely smokin'. Never heard Tyner play better than back then. Joe Ford completed the front line. John Lee was on bass and Wilby Fletcher on drums I think (had recently replaced Sonship Theus).

I think the band I saw was a quintet though - don't recall George Adams being in the front line (it was at Ronnie Scotts). They played several of the tunes from 'Horizon'.

To this day, I still rate hearing this band as one of the finest performances I've ever witnessed.

Edited January 15, 2012 by sidewinder

[Gheorghe]

Definitely John Blake. Can picture him now up on the bandstand in that white suit ! Saw that band with Blake around that period a couple of times (around 1981/82) and it was absolutely smokin'. Never heard Tyner play better than back then. Joe Ford completed the front line. John Lee was on bass and Wilby Fletcher on drums I think (had recently replaced Sonship Theus).

I think the band I saw was a quintet though - don't recall George Adams being in the front line (it was at Ronnie Scotts). They played several of the tunes from 'Horizon'.

To this day, I still rate hearing this band as one of the finest performances I've ever witnessed.

Thank you Pete C. and sidewinder!

Yeah, John Blake. And I didn´t know who had completed the front line. But I´m sure on bass was Avery Sharpe, I can´t remember the drummer.

But as you say it: This Band was really smoking. Imagine: That was the last day of a 3 days festival (Vienna Jazz Spring March 80) and on schedule on that last evening was first the McCoy Tyner Sextet and then Dexter Gordon.

I didn´t see albums with that sextet then, the big runner in record stores was "Super Trios" which I also love.

[sidewinder]

Certainly remember hearing Avery Sharpe with McCoy but it wasn't with that particular band - slightly later on, again at Scotts, when McCoy played there with his trio. I think Albert 'Tootie' Heath was on drums on that occasion.

[sidewinder]

and on schedule on that last evening was first the McCoy Tyner Sextet and then Dexter Gordon.

Those were the days. Never got to see Dexter at Scotts - big regret.

[Gheorghe]

I got to get that album "Horizon"

Anyway right now I build up a collection of albums recorded by the many real artists I saw live, records mostly from about the time I heard them.

[kh1958]

I saw the McCoy Tyner group with John Blake on violin, Gary Bartz on alto, John Lee or (on one occasion) Gerald Veasley on bass guitar, and Wilby Fletcher on drums on a number of occasions. McCoy was coming through Dallas/Fort Worth a couple of times a year during the early to late 1980s, playing at the Caravan of Dreams in Fort Worth and the Venetian Room of the Fairmont Hotel in Dallas. The quintet was quite electrifying; in fact I recall the appearance with Veasley on bass at the Caravan as a highlight of my concert going experiences. The group only recorded one LP, Dimensions. It is good but does not quite match what I heard live.

Edited January 15, 2012 by kh1958

[JSngry]

I saw the McCoy Tyner group with John Blake on violin, Gary Bartz on alto, John Lee or (on one occasion) Gerald Veasley on bass guitar, and Wilby Fletcher on drums on a number of occasions.

I'm thinking I saw the same lineup (Lee, not Veasley, although Veasley in those days was BURNING) in Santa Fe in 1982 or 83, only with Terrance Blanchard added...but maybe Blanchard was with Bobby Hutcherson at the same club...I honestly don't recall if I saw Bobby Hutcherson or not. That kinda sucks...

But either way, that was a great band, Bartz was in great form that night.

[king ubu]

Ah well, I remember having seen Hutcherson and he sucked. That sucks, too...

[kh1958]

Once I saw that group as a quartet (Tyner, Bartz, Lee, Fletcher) without John Blake at a short-lived jazz club in Oak Cliff called the Judge's Chambers--they played a version of Contemplation that was sublime.

Ah well, I remember having seen Hutcherson and he sucked. That sucks, too...

Was he in ill health at the time?

He certainly didn't suck any of the times I saw him.

The last time was around 1998 at the Village Vanguard--sitting in the front row, with his vibes and marimba directly in front of me, that was amazing.

The first time was at Lush Life in the early 1980s--the club was almost empty and I got to talk with him awhile; he was very friendly.

Also at the Caravan of Dreams circa mid-1980s, and then as well with the Timeless All Stars at the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival. All were good.

Edited January 15, 2012 by kh1958

[king ubu]

No, Hutcherson was booked to replace Bags in an all stars tour (w/Hank Jones, Kenny Burrell, Ray Brown and Mickey Roker) and was visibly bored and uninterested in what the others were playing (Jones and Burrell were great though).

But back to Tyner... saw him last year in quartet w/Bartz - and both of them were great!

[Gheorghe]

Yeah, still great memories about that one spring festival 1980.

My long-time memoriy´s better than my short-time memoriy.

It was like „heaven on earth“ especially that month:

The 3 day´s festival at the auditory of a Viennes University had on it´s schedule:

On the first day: Sam Rivers Trio, Johnny Griffin Quartet (with Ronnie Matthews, Ray Drummond, Kenny Washington), Chet Baker Quartet (drumless, vibes Wolfgang Lackerschmied, with piano possibly Phil Marcovici ….I don´t remember exaxtly) .

On the second day:

Mel Lewis Big Band (with musical director Bob Brookmeyer, I don´t want to put it down, but somehow it didn´t exite me the way it went 2 years before with Thad Jones still involved.)

Max Roach Quartet (with Cecil Bridgewater, Odeon Pope, Calvin Hill), I remember a fast version of „It´s Time“, a Billie Harper composition „Peaceful Heart“ and an extended version of „6 bits Blues“.

Sun Ra Archestra: Great, really great, I remember the vocal contributions of June Tyson, the boppish Lady Bird/Half Nelson, and some Fletcher Henderson arrangements. Standing Ovations…..

Third Day:

First some european stuff (duo guitar-vibes), sure some intellectual stuff, but sorry to say not my alley

McCoy Tyner Sextet great with the now identified violin player. I ´m not so hip to violin players but that was some great music

Dexter Gordon (with Kirk Leightsey, John Heard, Eddie Gladden: Needless to say, the master himself at the peak of his power and popularity, he sure played for about 2 hours, I remember he played a tune from his homecoming album and announced it as a „CBS plagiat“, never lost his humour, other tune: Fried Bananas, etc.

And dig that: Few days before the festival, Sonny Stitt was in town at „Porr House“

And few days after the festival Dizzy was here.

Did it really happen? Such great times, and I was lucky do be there…..

[king ubu]

guitar-vibes - Pepl-Pirchner? They were great!

(partial?) Griffin setlist - this amounts to a 74min radio broadcast:

Autumn Leaves

Jean-Marie (Mathews)

Sophisticated Lady

Fifty-Six

Soft and Furry

line-up was: Johnny Griffin (ts), Ronnie Mathews (p), Ray Drummond (b), Kenny Washington (d)

[Gheorghe]

King ubu:

yes, that might be the exact track list from Johnny Griffin. Anyway, Autumn Leaves was the first tune, the second tune was a 3/4 time vehicle, and announced as "slightly viennese" because of the waltz metro. Griffin seemed to like that gimmick, because I remember he announced 3/4 tunes played in my hometown as "slightly viennese" also on other occasions. And the last tune was the at least 20 minutes long "soft and furry" , that´s sure, I remember that. And I already knew it from the Steeplechase album "Blues for Harvey".

The personnel from the guitar -vibes duo is correct. I didn´t want to mention names because I don´t want to be killed if I say I didn´t dig it.

My "fault" in general is, maybe I´m not "sophisticated" enough for "european jazz". Don´t misunderstand me, I love so many aspects of jazz, but some kind of it, mostly the more "cerebral" stuff just doesn´t make me happy.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Gheorghe

[king ubu]

Oh well, Pepl/Pirchner's was certainly not music that everyone would immediately be hooked on!

The radio broadcast of Griffin's cuts off "Soft and Furry" alas. And yes, "Jean-Marie" by pianist Mathews is indeed a waltz, as far as I remember.

[Gheorghe]

Rite now I remember they also played a short version of "Wee" (Griffin). About the broadcast, is it possible it was "Jazz mit Erich Kleinschuster" (the austrian trombonist).... I´m not his biggest fan, especially how he did that broadcast, well he´s not as hip as "Symphony Sid" *smile*.....

About "Wee". Anyway, Griffin loved to play fast rhythm-change based tunes, Wee was a favourite of his.

And now I remember why I know they played it. I listened to the broadcast, taped it and was quite annoyed when Mr. Kleinschuster made his anouncements or comments and the last thing he said was " ...jetzt läuft dahinten noch Wiiiii (that´s how he pronounced "Wee") ......"

[Hot Ptah]

I saw Tyner twice in 1979-80 (both years in the fall) with a front line of John Blake, George Adams and Joe Ford. By the summer of 1981, it was just John Blake and Joe Ford.

[clifford_thornton]

What an amazing time you must have had, Gheorghe. Sounds great. I like the "European avant-garde" stuff as well as bop and hardbop (but sometimes the mood strikes for one or the other).

Kleinschuster's sextet was pretty fine IMO, but definitely "of its time."

[sidewinder]

I saw Tyner twice in 1979-80 (both years in the fall) with a front line of John Blake, George Adams and Joe Ford. By the summer of 1981, it was just John Blake and Joe Ford.

That confirms that the gigs I saw (went at least twice, it was so good) must have been Summer of 81.

Edited January 16, 2012 by sidewinder

[bigtiny]

I saw this band....first it was George Adams and Joe Ford on the front line. Then Blake joined and I think for a while it was all three. Then Adams left and it was Ford and Blake.

The bass player in 1980 when I saw them was Charles Fambrough. Ronnie Burrage was on drums.

bigtiny

[Gheorghe]

What an amazing time you must have had, Gheorghe. Sounds great. I like the "European avant-garde" stuff as well as bop and hardbop (but sometimes the mood strikes for one or the other).

Kleinschuster's sextet was pretty fine IMO, but definitely "of its time."

Hi, yeah of course I saw and heard some great stuff.

About an austrian trombone player you mentioned: Good trombone, sure. Saw him play "Move" once at a pretty fast tempo. But if I remember rite, it was in 1973 at "Stadthalle" when Miles was doin his stuff he did then and some of those "local big names" would boo him out (exactly at a point when there was a more quiet and lyrical passage, which determined Miles to spit on the floor and leave the stage not to come back) . We all hoped Miles would return but I think it was enough for him. It was just a drag how they put him down only because he managed to go into some directions, and the most ridiculous thing was that those guys later tried to copy some of his stuff, trying to play "jazz rock" at the clubs......

Miles´midseventies stuff was heavy for me and I must admit I feel more comfortable if I listen to his acoustic or semi acoustic stuff, but at least I was hip enough to listen to it, to buy that stuff and hear some things......

Back to Tyner: Yeah! It must have been Fambrough on the bass and Ronnie Burrage on drums. Now I got the line up I was lookin for. Thanks!!!!

[Hot Ptah]

I saw this band....first it was George Adams and Joe Ford on the front line. Then Blake joined and I think for a while it was all three. Then Adams left and it was Ford and Blake.

The bass player in 1980 when I saw them was Charles Fambrough. Ronnie Burrage was on drums.

bigtiny

Yes, in the fall of 1976 he had a front line of Joe Ford and Ron Bridgewater. In the summer and fall of 1978 it was Joe Ford and George Adams. In the fall of 1979 and 1980 it was Joe Ford, George Adams and John Blake. In the summer of 1981 it was Joe Ford and John Blake.

Charles Fambrough was his bassist in all of those years until sometime in 1980 or 1981. I saw Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers with Charles Fambrough in the band in 1981. Art Blakey announced his name and said that "Charles has been with Mc Coy Tyner but has come over to play with us because he wanted to play some JAZZ!" I found that comment to be rather curious.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Hot Ptah

[Gheorghe]

Now that you say it I remember it very well:

The lineup during march 1980 must have been George Adams, Joe Ford (I hadn´t heard his name before, the only Ford I know is Ricky Ford who was with Mingus few years before) and that "mistery violin player" John Blake. I said "mistery" since I wasn´t really aware of violin players, something ´bout the sound that I couldn´t get with, ....but that violin with McCoy was cool.

Yes, I also remember how I saw Fambrough a few month later, it must have been in autumn 1980 with Blakey (with Valery Ponomarev, Billy Pierce, Bobby Watson, James Williams!) : And believe me or not, I remember how Blakey announced him as "composer, arranger, bass player" (Bu introduced everybody like that, but with all due respect to Fambrough I doubt he might be remembered as a composer and arranger, he´s a helluva bassplayer and sure rote some tunes, but "composer, arranger" ....not really) .

And Blakey made some remarks about Fambrough former with Tyner. Blakey´s comment about "wanted to play some JAZZ" is typical Blakey of that time. I think he didn´t like the more popular 70´s evolutions, the succesful Milestone Albums with that wider range of music. Blakey then believed that Jazz must be just straight ahead hardbop like "Blues March" and "Moanin´" maybe. But I heard him do quite open and "free" stuff also with a later edition with Blanchard and Harrison and those guys.