Favorite Free Jazz/Avant Garde Box Sets

[Face of the Bass]

Document: New Music from Russia, the 80s [Leo Records] was a revelatory listen on its release and has proved worthy of revisiting over a long period now.

Didn't even know about this one. (This was actually my entire (selfish) motive for starting this thread, hoping that someone would reference something I'd never heard of.)

I just got into Soviet jazz through the Leo Records sale, and have been really turned onto the music.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Face of the Bass

[Leeway]

David, great thread. Your initial post really expresses my own perspective.

I think most of the sets I would have selected have already been named, but I don't think these have (if they have, apologies):

Braxton Iridium box on Firehouse 12

The Vandermark Resonance box on Not Two

The Vandermark Alchemia box on Not Two

[romualdo]

Wow!!

where do you start

lots of great material has already been mentioned

Have to mention the Ayler Revenant, Taylor 88 box & Mosaic again - all very special to me

add

AMM - The Crypt 3CD Matchless - any AMM fans out there?

Kuryokhin - Divine Madness 4CD Leo

Brotzmann Octet/Tentet 3CD Okkadisk

Blue Notes 4CD Ogun

Charles Tolliver Mosaic Selects

Albert Mangelsdorff - recent MPS boxes

The Necks - Althenaeum, Homebush, Quay & Raab 4CD Fish Of Milk (great Australian improv trio)

I have a real soft spot for Brit/Euro/Soviet jazz (esp free/improv) - both of my parents are Lithuanian, I was born in London & the family migrated (fortunately or unfortunately) to Australia in 1961

One of my biggest box set regrets was not getting the Leo Document Set - I remember dealing with Leo Feigin probably about 10 to 12 years ago - he had one set left but the cost of shipping & the exchange rate at that time made it prohibitive for me. You rarely see this set coming up for resale nowdays.

[Face of the Bass]

Blue Notes 4CD Ogun

Yes! I had forgotten about this one, but it is excellent stuff.

[David Ayers]

If you made the complete list of avant-garde boxes after the death of Coltrane (so excluding a lot of favorites), starting with the Art Ensemble and including everything after that - it wouldn't amount to all that many boxes. I was wondering what we hadn't mentioned? There is the second box of Iskra 1903. Quite a few Braxtons nobody picked out. We obviously aren't mentioning any Miles (interesting he sort of doesn't count as an avant-gardist).

There's two types of box set. The historical compilation a la Mosaic. Then just the compendious collection, whether new or archival. Most of the sets we mention post-Coltrane are themselves recording projects - not at all the same thing as a compilation. Though I don't mind Old Dogs and I guess would enjoy the duo with Morris if I heard it, I somehwat doubt that Braxton model of just go in a studio, record one hour chunks, issue on CD. I don't mind the decadence of the compendious recording though, in a way. If one model is to tape ten concerts then select for single LP/CD issue, then indeed that is one way to document activity and the quality is obviously higher (you picked the best). But equally to tape and issue ten sets is also fun and for the listener you get more variety than listening ten times to the same set. How many such sets are classics though, rather then impressive acquisitions, I don't really know, and mega-sets by definition have many fewer listeners and are surely, with exceptions, mainly aimed at a selective audience. By contrast the CT FMP is a key document which sadly for me I have only ever heard in single disk selection.

Oh and you'd also have to have a proper think about the term avant-garde which in my book excludes the likes of Tolliver and Hill.

Edited December 2, 2011 by David Ayers

[clifford_thornton]

I sure wish there were more boxes like the Albert Ayler and Jimmy Lyons ones ... so many figures that could benefit from this treatment, most notably (imo):

Marion Brown-- check his online discography ... TONS of unreleased sessions from a man so painfully underrepresented on record, especially in his prime

Sam Rivers-- we know the recent Select just scratches the surface of what's sitting around, both from his creative orchestras and the old trio

Horace Tapscott-- again, so, so many private tapes from a major artist who was rarely recorded

Bill Dixon-- Odyssey is there, but I'm sure there's much more. I'd say the same for him as for Tapscott: too rarely recorded.

Joe McPhee-- John Corbett has done great putting out early private recordings and gigs but I'd love to hear more from the late 70s and 80s.

Sunny Murray-- probably the Major Figure least acknowledged as such. An anthology of his career would do wonders in asserting his eminence.

Black Artist Group-- Mentioned about as often as AEC but not much original recordings to point to

And while there's certainly no shortage of their stuff on the market, I'd always welcome odds & ends boxes from Taylor, Lacy & Braxton-- gigs, rehearsals, speeches, etc. Also, why not an official Ornette bootleg series?

Sorry, I'll be back to reality in a minute ...

There's a ton of stuff in Bill's archive. It's just a matter of getting some of it out in a way that does it "right."

Sunny's music is strewn about on too many different labels and I've heard a fair amount of live stuff that was definitely on the "miss" side of things, so it would be a challenge to put together a comprehensive set documenting his work.

[clifford_thornton]

AEC

Take another look at that box, grasshopper...

Oh, I know what you mean - I just call it that.

The Carter-Bradford Select is one for the ages.

Doh! Forgot about that one, for some strange reason. JLH did a great job with it.

[BeBop]

Aside from Brownie and the Threadgill, any love for the recent Black Saint/Soul Notes?

Appealing, based on price and availability.

[clifford_thornton]

Good deals and often very fine music but the presentation isn't all that great IMO.

[J.A.W.]

Aside from Brownie and the Threadgill, any love for the recent Black Saint/Soul Notes?

Appealing, based on price and availability.

Good deals and often very fine music but the presentation isn't all that great IMO.

I've only heard a few and I agree, the presentation isn't great and musically they're a mixed bag in my opinion.

[king ubu]

Part of the Threadgill are brilliant but to me it wouln't quite rank as a favorite (I have higher hopes for the Mosaic, which I don't yet own)... neither does the Taylor... maybe the Dixon, but I still need lots and lots of time for that!

And indeed presentation isn't all that much, alas. I like the mini-lp covers alright, but those with generic back-covers are just too bad.

Faves of mine:

the Lyons box from Ayler

the Ayler box from Revenant

the Art Ensemble Nessa box

both Brözzimann boxes (the Okka and that recent 5CD set)

Miles "On the Corner" (if it qualifies)

Ornette Atlantic

Coltrane Village Vanguard (again, if it qualifies)

Andrew Hill Mosaic (the big sucker - if it qualifies)

Taylor Codanza (don't have the FMP, alas)

Blue Notes Ogun (has 5CDs, btw)

can't yet list the Braxton Mosaic and the Carter/Bradford Select as I still need to really dig deeper into them.

[J.A.W.]

Part of the Threadgill are brilliant but to me it wouln't quite rank as a favorite (I have higher hopes for the Mosaic, which I don't yet own)...

The Threadgill Black Saint box was a major disappointment for me. I'd only heard a few of the discs, and the "new" ones were not my cup of tea. I sold the box and got the discs I liked separately.

Edited December 3, 2011 by J.A.W.

[golfcrazy1984]

OK, so....here's a confession: I can really only think of one "Avant Garde" box set I own, and that's the Sam Rivers Mosaic set. Of all the eras and genres in jazz, Free Jazz and Avant Garde are so poorly represented in my collection compared to big band and small group jazz. I took a listen to the Braxton and Threadgill sets on the Mosaic website and wish they had longer sample tracks. I know this is a "Favorite Free Jazz" box sets thread, and I don't want to hijack the thread, but I need some consultation and advice to beginning a free jazz collection.

I find a big emotional connection to Ellington and Basie, I love 50s and 60s bop/hard bop, I have a pretty broad collection/appreciation of music OTHER than free and avant garde.....I think it's time for me to grow up and learn to appreciate the "freer" music.

So, lay it on me! What should I get/ask for Christmas this year?

Thanks Everybody!!!

[Face of the Bass]

OK, so....here's a confession: I can really only think of one "Avant Garde" box set I own, and that's the Sam Rivers Mosaic set. Of all the eras and genres in jazz, Free Jazz and Avant Garde are so poorly represented in my collection compared to big band and small group jazz. I took a listen to the Braxton and Threadgill sets on the Mosaic website and wish they had longer sample tracks. I know this is a "Favorite Free Jazz" box sets thread, and I don't want to hijack the thread, but I need some consultation and advice to beginning a free jazz collection.

I find a big emotional connection to Ellington and Basie, I love 50s and 60s bop/hard bop, I have a pretty broad collection/appreciation of music OTHER than free and avant garde.....I think it's time for me to grow up and learn to appreciate the "freer" music.

So, lay it on me! What should I get/ask for Christmas this year?

Thanks Everybody!!!

Do you have Ornette Coleman's Beauty is a Rare Thing? To me that would be one place to start.

[clifford_thornton]

Or, to dip into single-disc releases from a couple of our board members' labels:

Julius Hemphill's Dogon A.D. (International Phonograph)

&

Roscoe Mitchell's Before there was Sound (Nessa)

and I think, in terms of musician-board members, Alexander Hawkins' fine sextet recordings are well worth listening to - accessible and avant-garde.

Edited December 3, 2011 by clifford_thornton

[B. Goren.]

These 2 sets are my favorite:

[colinmce]

OK, so....here's a confession: I can really only think of one "Avant Garde" box set I own, and that's the Sam Rivers Mosaic set. Of all the eras and genres in jazz, Free Jazz and Avant Garde are so poorly represented in my collection compared to big band and small group jazz. I took a listen to the Braxton and Threadgill sets on the Mosaic website and wish they had longer sample tracks. I know this is a "Favorite Free Jazz" box sets thread, and I don't want to hijack the thread, but I need some consultation and advice to beginning a free jazz collection.

I find a big emotional connection to Ellington and Basie, I love 50s and 60s bop/hard bop, I have a pretty broad collection/appreciation of music OTHER than free and avant garde.....I think it's time for me to grow up and learn to appreciate the "freer" music.

So, lay it on me! What should I get/ask for Christmas this year?

Thanks Everybody!!!

In all honestly, I think Clifford's direction is the way to go. I love the Braxton Mosaic and I love Henry Threadgill, but I think it's alright to say that these sets aren't for everyone. While the Braxton contains wonderful, accessible stuff like New York, Fall 1974, Five Pieces 1975, Montreux/Berlin Concerts and Creative Orchestra Music 1976 (which given your tastes I'm confident you'd LOVE) a full half of the set is given over to much more challenging work like For Trio, For Four Orchestras and For Two Pianos. And Threadgill's conception is very idiosyncratic too, though there's lots to enjoy and he never goes "way out" (imo). Better off tracking down some of the original LPs than drop $150 on something you might not like.

The Ornette, though, is a must.

[paul secor]

I think there are more responses to this thread than there are free jazz/avant garde box sets.

[J.A.W.]

I think there are more responses to this thread than there are free jazz/avant garde box sets.

You're probably right.

[king ubu]

The Harry Miller set on Ogun hasn't yet been mentioned. It's a notch below my favorite avantgarde box-sets, but there's still some pretty great music on it!

[romualdo]

The Harry Miller set on Ogun hasn't yet been mentioned. It's a notch below my favorite avantgarde box-sets, but there's still some pretty great music on it!

Forgot about that one - would have mentioned it on my list but when I bought mine it was minus the box (only got the individual CD's & booklet)

[clifford_thornton]

Forgot about that. I have the LPs and they're all quite fine.

[David Ayers]

OK, so....here's a confession: I can really only think of one "Avant Garde" box set I own, and that's the Sam Rivers Mosaic set. Of all the eras and genres in jazz, Free Jazz and Avant Garde are so poorly represented in my collection compared to big band and small group jazz. I took a listen to the Braxton and Threadgill sets on the Mosaic website and wish they had longer sample tracks. I know this is a "Favorite Free Jazz" box sets thread, and I don't want to hijack the thread, but I need some consultation and advice to beginning a free jazz collection.

I find a big emotional connection to Ellington and Basie, I love 50s and 60s bop/hard bop, I have a pretty broad collection/appreciation of music OTHER than free and avant garde.....I think it's time for me to grow up and learn to appreciate the "freer" music.

So, lay it on me! What should I get/ask for Christmas this year?

Thanks Everybody!!!

In all honestly, I think Clifford's direction is the way to go. I love the Braxton Mosaic and I love Henry Threadgill, but I think it's alright to say that these sets aren't for everyone. While the Braxton contains wonderful, accessible stuff like New York, Fall 1974, Five Pieces 1975, Montreux/Berlin Concerts and Creative Orchestra Music 1976 (which given your tastes I'm confident you'd LOVE) a full half of the set is given over to much more challenging work like For Trio, For Four Orchestras and For Two Pianos. And Threadgill's conception is very idiosyncratic too, though there's lots to enjoy and he never goes "way out" (imo). Better off tracking down some of the original LPs than drop $150 on something you might not like.

The Ornette, though, is a must.

I am glad you said that about those two Mosaics. I have all the LPs on both sets but never bought the CD versions. What you are polite enough to call 'challenging' on the Braxton is IMO just not that that good of its type. The stuff you list would have made a great collection and set the bar for entry much lower. I do understand why they reissued it all, so I am not criticising that, but equally I can imagine purchasers of the set who didn't know the music feeling they didn't get great value. I agree on the Threadgill too. Uneven, and only sometimes as good as it wants to be, sometimes just too dry, etc etc - not a great place to start. In a world where genuinely bad records have had multiple individual releases on CD over the years, there may be reasons it has taken this long to get this material out, and then only in premium price product.

As to where to start for Jazz Nut, if boxes it must be, Ornette Atlantics and Coltrane Village Vanguard, but with the Ornette you could go for individual Atlantics, and for the Coltrane there is a Best of VV which has what really are the best tracks. Of course you will end up wanting it all in both cases...

[king ubu]

The Harry Miller set on Ogun hasn't yet been mentioned. It's a notch below my favorite avantgarde box-sets, but there's still some pretty great music on it!

Forgot about that one - would have mentioned it on my list but when I bought mine it was minus the box (only got the individual CD's & booklet)

Same here... and even got that one used from another bored member.

[ElginThompson]

Wow. Did a random search and just fell into this thread! Amazing topic.

What receives the most airtime in my home of late:

John Carter / Bobby Bradford - Mosaic Select is the truth and light.

Albert Ayler - Holy Ghost

Sam Rivers - Mosaic

Plan to spend more time with Art Ensemble, Bill Dixon (Black Saint), Threadgill (Mosaic). I put Complete Trane at VV on the avant-garde outside looking in and have all of Ornette's Atlantic singles.

In reality all other titles are on the backburner until the recent Mingus Mosaic is fully digested. Will take awhile.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Delightfulee