Late Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 Parker's studio recordings. If you had to live with his studio recordings under just one label, what label would it be? • Savoy • Dial • Clef/Verve • (other) I'm interested not so much in the "poll" sense, but in how you're attracted to a specific time in Parker's relatively brief recording career. Naturally, we'd want all his studio and live recordings, but narrowing it down takes some thought. What are you most endeared to? What do you consider the most "significant"? I don't care about qualitative "best" responses, but rather what you consider the most compelling reasons to listen to Bird. For me, it'd have to be the Savoy recordings. I made a CDR recently of all the master takes (plus my favorite alternates) from the Savoy sessions, and it gave me a new appreciation all over again for Parker's genius. One of the fundamental aspects of Bird's playing is that he never, at any time, seems to strain to produce a riff or melody. Lines seem to issue — as if there were no other logical choice — out of the horn with the most natural of inflections. I'm interested in your thoughts/observations/corrections! Quote
Gheorghe Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 Well, the Savoy recordings were the first of Parker I purchased, so they alway will have their important place in my discography. The only fault is, that the drums are not recorded properly. I´d like to hear Max Roach more, it seems that he is barely audible. The Dials have the better drum sound and it seems that the musicians had more time at the studio to work out the stuff. On Verve I might say you got more different surroundings. Bird with combo, Bird with Strings, with Latin Touch, Bird plays Cole Porter etc. The only fault on some of the Verve stuff is, that it´s grossly overproduced (like „Night and Day“, it sounds more like movie scores from the fifties). And they virtually destroyed an otherwise interesting date with the Quintet that went to Paris (with Dorham, Haig, Tommy Potter and Roach), adding that terrible trombone of Tommy Turk. With such a trombone the lines are blurred and the solos sound more like those crowd pleasers from jam sessions. The best of the Verves is „Swedish Schnapps“. „Now is the Time“ that quartet album is also good, a very good Bird from later years…. Hard to choose. I really dig Bird and like almost everything he did. Quote
brownie Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 I'll go with the Dial recordings. Bird was at his most lyrical, complex and spontaneous best. Those Dial sessions offer a full range of his genius. Quote
BillF Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 The Savoys for nostalgic reasons, as they were the first I owned at the age of 18. But the Dials, particularly those recorded in California, are wonderful, too. The Verves are in third place, though I couldn't do without Bird and Diz and the "Now's the Time" and "Kim"/"Cosmic Rays" sessions. Quote
Gheorghe Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 The Savoys for nostalgic reasons, as they were the first I owned at the age of 18. But the Dials, particularly those recorded in California, are wonderful, too. The Verves are in third place, though I couldn't do without Bird and Diz and the "Now's the Time" and "Kim"/"Cosmic Rays" sessions. Great to see people who have the same story, the same approach to Bird, or to jazz in general.... Me to, I was 18 when I got the double LP Savoy "Mastertakes", the next was some european "sample": Charlie Parker "Jazz-tracks", it had some of the Dials. Since it was hard to purchase original stuff before the british Spotlite label started all that rare Bird, this was my first occasion to get aqainted with the Dial stuff. (The 3 LP set "Charlie Parker Story" on the french "America Label" would have had the master takes of the dials, but it was out of print. Hard times then, if you wanted something, it sure was OOP....at least 60-70% of it... Quote
John L Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Some of the very best was on Savoy. But if I had to take one group of recordings, it would be those on Dial. There is one simple reason. Savoy hardly recorded Bird playing ballads. Edited November 7, 2011 by John L Quote
bichos Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 dial...or...savoy...let´s wait...dial! i vote for dial!! keep boppin´ marcel Quote
Big Beat Steve Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 My first Parkers (right after the 1945 Diz and Bird recordings reissued on that Prestige twofer) - at age 16 or 17 - were those on Dial (including one LP on the "Charlie Parker Records" label) and left a lasting impression on me, maybe reinforced by the fact that at about the same time I read the "Bird Lives" biography (yeah, I know what some of you are tempted to say now ... ). So I'd vote for the Dials too, not so much for those subjective nostalgic reasons but (though I dug into the Savoys not that long afterwards) because to me each of the Dials somehow epitomizes the concise, dense, down-to-the-point summary of the essence of bebop crammed into the length of a 78 rpm record. An impression that the Savoys somehow did not have on me to the same extent (whereas the Dexter Gordon Dials - that I first bought not long after the Bird Dials - in fact did too). So maybe there was something to the recordings on Dial?? (Yes I know others will refute this for a long list of well-founded musical reasons but there you are ... ) Quote
mjzee Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 Dial. Although I became aware of the Dials and the Savoys around the same time - was it 1978 when Warner Bros released the Dial material and Savoy released the complete boxed set? - the Dials were the first ones I owned, in the form of the 6 Spotlite releases. The liner notes were great, and really helped to explain what I was listening to. There's also the drama of the Lover Man session, the comeback of the Relaxin' At Camarillo session, and the variety of sidemen such as Erroll Garner. It may be unfair, but I remember the Savoy box more for the false starts and studio chatter, such as the 12 takes of Marmaduke. Quote
Joe Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 The live material released by Savoy is indispensable, and there's the "Ko-Ko" sessions, of course... but, overall, I prefer the Dial recordings for the diversity of both ensembles and material showcased. Quote
BillF Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) The Savoys for nostalgic reasons, as they were the first I owned at the age of 18. But the Dials, particularly those recorded in California, are wonderful, too. The Verves are in third place, though I couldn't do without Bird and Diz and the "Now's the Time" and "Kim"/"Cosmic Rays" sessions. My first Parker album, bought in 1958, was on the London American label and looked like this, but with the white lettering coloured in. It was one of 5 vols. A friend bought another vol and we used to exchange them. In terms of young people's disposable income in those days, they were very expensive. I guess "The Immortal" was very much to the point, as he'd only been dead for three years at the time. Edited November 7, 2011 by BillF Quote
jazzbo Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 I first encountered some of the Charlie Parker Records items, then Dial and Savoy. I'd really hate to choose between any of the Bird releases, and it's really hard to choose between Dial and Savoy. John makes a good point about the ballads. Still, I'll say Savoy, the sound, the sidemen, the energy, that's the Bird I reach for most. I have all the releases that Denon put out on separate cds, and the combined box set. Timeless material. Quote
JSngry Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 Savoy for Bird himself, Dial for the better presentations (including the ballads), & Verve for the wide diversity of settings, even the ones that don't taste so good. Quote
JohnS Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Impossible for me to choose, I started with a badly pressed UK Vogue 10", moved on to a Verve ep then the Savoy lps were released. All of it revelatory in my early listening days, so I have a soft spot for all of those. Now I have most of it plus a load of live stuff and it's all still brilliant. No, can't, or don't want to, decide! Edited November 7, 2011 by JohnS Quote
jeffcrom Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 Dial, for a lot of reasons. But... In spite of some of the sometimes unsatisfying and unsuitable settings Bird found himself put into at Mercury/Clef/Verve, the cream of those recordings represents some of his best playing. On several of these sessions, he achieves a nearly transcendent balance of relaxation and drive, rhythm mastery and melodic ideas, surprise and resolution. The Dials and Savoys are fresher and more exciting. But I've always been amazed at the level of musical poise Bird showed in the Verve recordings, as his life spun more and more out of control. Quote
BillF Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 The Savoys for nostalgic reasons, as they were the first I owned at the age of 18. But the Dials, particularly those recorded in California, are wonderful, too. The Verves are in third place, though I couldn't do without Bird and Diz and the "Now's the Time" and "Kim"/"Cosmic Rays" sessions. My first Parker album, bought in 1958, was on the London American label and looked like this, but with the white lettering coloured in. It was one of 5 vols. A friend bought another vol and we used to exchange them. In terms of young people's disposable income in those days, they were very expensive. I guess "The Immortal" was very much to the point, as he'd only been dead for three years at the time. I bought my first Dials in 1959 on a 10" LP on the French Guilde du Jazz label. The sound quality was terrible, which I believe remained the case till Tony Williams did his good work in the 70s. Cover and disc design were like this. Love the old piano player logo on the disc! Quote
gmonahan Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 The Dials, for all the reasons so many have stated. But it's a little like choosing just one flavor of Ben and Jerry's ice cream. Better to have it all! gregmo Quote
Clunky Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) In my first year at uni, a friend suggested that as I liked the trad jazz band that had played at a faculty function then I might like Charlie Parker !! I had never heard of him but got the Savoy Master takes which blew me away. So I'll go with Savoy ( although I've still to hear all the other takes) Edited November 7, 2011 by Clunky Quote
Big Wheel Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 even the ones that don't taste so good. Which Verves fall into this category? I have a soft spot for the Latin sessions compiled on South of the Border but haven't heard many of the others like Bird with Strings, etc. Quote
JSngry Posted November 7, 2011 Report Posted November 7, 2011 Oh, they're all good, but the sides with the vocal group and the later w/strings sessions don't really seem too "inspired" to me. Bird's fine, but... YMMV and all that. Quote
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