sickening penn state football allegations

[JSngry]

Delegation of authority is what a good leader does. He can't do it all, Jim. No good leader can.

Something else a good leader does is make sure that those to whom he has delegated authority actually get the job done. Apprently the job here was to sweep the matter under the rug, because that's what got done, and apparently everybody was happy with that until they weren't, which has only been fairly recently.

His job is to coach football. His job is not to micro-manage the jobs of others or to seek out and punish child molesters.

Well then, he really has been a Corporate Stooge all these years, then, which is OK by me. I always suspected as much, although it tends to wear on me how Corporate Stooges are given all this...veneration from other Corporate Stooges (of which, at the end of the day, in some form or fashion, almost all of us end up being).

Joe Paterno was an Imaginary Great Man whose "greatness" existed, not due to some innate character traits of his own, due only to the allowances given him and imaged by his institutional Powers That Be. Outside of that, he was good at his job, probably a good husband & father etc. Good for him, but...so are a LOT of people.

My problem is with the rush to judgment. Leadership is not defined by what he should have known ten years into the future,

Can leadership at least be defined by what he did know about a relatively few hours in the past & the direction of his reaction? He reacted like a lower-level manager fearful of his job, not an executive who had the power to issue directives and expect those directives to be followed through to a clearly specified end (well, these days, everybody acts like lower-level managers except when it's time to justify their bonuses...).

Which is "ok" (not really, but you know what I mean), but - either the guy had all this power or he didn't. Not a lot of in-between here.

If he had it, he really, really did not use it wisely (and yeah, true leaders should look into the future, that's kinda what they're there for. To maintain the staus quo, you only need good administrators, which is a not-exactly-common skill set in and of itself, but ...).

And if he didn't have it, then he's really just another chump who got punked out by The System, which is a drag, but not a particularly uncommon one. It's worthy of not too much more than a shrug and an "oh well, that's the way shit goes, happens every day and everywhere".

So - did Paterno have the power, or was he a just another cog?

[Tim McG]

Says Good Speak: Think about it, Jim. If your house was ransacked and robbed would you get in your car and go looking for the thieves or would you make a police report and allow the people trusted with that duty to arrest then convict those criminals?

Likewise, if I was told by someone I thought was credible, that a kid was raped by someone I knew, a co-worker (to put it in in its most basic terms), I would get in my car and drive to the police state and tell them.

It occurs to me that your, "tell your boss, acquit yourself of further responsibility," is the obverse of the, "I was only following orders" defense.

Um...OK.

You said that you would get in the car and go to the police thereby trusting them to follow through [though the first thing they would ask is if you filed a report with CPS, you know, following orders]. You didn't say you would hunt the molester down yourself. Am I right? Isn't that exactly what I just said to Jim?

Applying your logic, wouldn't that also be "acquit(ing) yourself of further responsibility"?

I also think your reading of the factual situation is naive, Paterno IS Penn State football. Has been for many decades. He's not some guy on an hourly wage cleaning up the gym. His authority and consequent level of responsibility is much, much higher.

Thank goodness the Board of Trustees got it right.

He is a football coach, Leeway...not God.

He may have tons of this power you speak of, but only with regard to PSU athletics/football.

Edited November 11, 2011 by GoodSpeak

[papsrus]

... My problem is with the rush to judgment. Leadership is not defined by what he should have known ten years into the future, IMHO. ...

You've returned to this a couple of times. The problem is, we do know that child molesters continue to molest, particularly if they are never confronted, apprehended and some attempt at rehabilitation is made. Paterno indeed should have known that the man was going to continue to molest.

Think about it, Jim. If your house was ransacked and robbed would you get in your car and go looking for the thieves or would you make a police report and allow the people trusted with that duty to arrest then convict those criminals? ...

The problem with this analogy is that Paterno didn't report anything to the police, did he?

[PHILLYQ]

Says Good Speak: Think about it, Jim. If your house was ransacked and robbed would you get in your car and go looking for the thieves or would you make a police report and allow the people trusted with that duty to arrest then convict those criminals?

Likewise, if I was told by someone I thought was credible, that a kid was raped by someone I knew, a co-worker (to put it in in its most basic terms), I would get in my car and drive to the police state and tell them.

It occurs to me that your, "tell your boss, acquit yourself of further responsibility," is the obverse of the, "I was only following orders" defense.

I also think your reading of the factual situation is naive, Paterno IS Penn State football. Has been for many decades. He's not some guy on an hourly wage cleaning up the gym. His authority and consequent level of responsibility is much, much higher.

Thank goodness the Board of Trustees got it right.

Paterno had enormous authority at Penn State. If he had any suspicions, as well he should after hearing 'inappropriate', 'child' and 'Sandusky' in the same sentence, he SHOULD have every one looking into this creep. Instead, he would have us believe that it was perfectly OK to tell his boss and DO NOTHING ELSE. With great power comes great responsibilty, and Paterno dropped the ball bigtime here, resulting in a sick predator on the loose for years more and more victims added to his sick scoresheet.

[Tim McG]

Delegation of authority is what a good leader does. He can't do it all, Jim. No good leader can.

Something else a good leader does is make sure that those to whom he has delegated authority actually get the job done. Apprently the job here was to sweep the matter under the rug, because that's what got done, and apparently everybody was happy with that until they weren't, which has only been fairly recently.

His job is to coach football. His job is not to micro-manage the jobs of others or to seek out and punish child molesters.

Well then, he really has been a Corporate Stooge all these years, then, which is OK by me. I always suspected as much, although it tends to wear on me how Corporate Stooges are given all this...veneration from other Corporate Stooges (of which, at the end of the day, in some form or fashion, almost all of us end up being).

Joe Paterno was an Imaginary Great Man whose "greatness" existed, not due to some innate character traits of his own, due only to the allowances given him and imaged by his institutional Powers That Be. Outside of that, he was good at his job, probably a good husband & father etc. Good for him, but...so are a LOT of people.

My problem is with the rush to judgment. Leadership is not defined by what he should have known ten years into the future,

Can leadership at least be defined by what he did know about a relatively few hours in the past & the direction of his reaction? He reacted like a lower-level manager fearful of his job, not an executive who had the power to issue directives and expect those directives to be followed through to a clearly specified end (well, these days, everybody acts like lower-level managers except when it's time to justify their bonuses...).

Which is "ok" (not really, but you know what I mean), but - either the guy had all this power or he didn't. Not a lot of in-between here.

If he had it, he really, really did not use it wisely (and yeah, true leaders should look into the future, that's kinda what they're there for. To maintain the staus quo, you only need good administrators, which is a not-exactly-common skill set in and of itself, but ...).

And if he didn't have it, then he's really just another chump who got punked out by The System, which is a drag, but not a particularly uncommon one. It's worthy of not too much more than a shrug and an "oh well, that's the way shit goes, happens every day and everywhere".

So - did Paterno have the power, or was he a just another cog?

The difference here is you see micro-managing as a sign of good leadership. I call that anal-retentive.

A good leader hires/works for good people he/she can trust to do their duty. A poor leader micro-manages the hell out of them.

Edited November 11, 2011 by GoodSpeak

[JSngry]

Think about it, Jim. If your house was ransacked and robbed would you get in your car and go looking for the thieves or would you make a police report and allow the people trusted with that duty to arrest then convict those criminals?

I have experienced property theft on multiple occasions, and I have done both, sometimes for the same incident.

One time I actually located the thieves before the police did. Not being armed, I did not confront them myself, but I did notify the police as to the perps whereabouts, and kept said location under surveillance until I saw the police arrive and make arrests. That was just for my kid's and one of his friend's bikes, but they had been stolen right out of our front yard in broad daylight, and I for damn sure wasn't going to let that not be resolved!

"Letting the suthorities do their job" and "being proactive" are not always mutually exclusive, especially when there's a good chance that "the authorities" are not naturally driven by the initiative to resolve...those who report are well-served by knowing in advance whether or not that is the case.

[Pete C]

To expect one's employer to do the right thing in a criminal matter involving its own is not reasonable in the "moral" climate of business.

Here's a case that made the news today that doesn't involve anything nearly as heinous, but nonetheless despicable--mortgage lenders bilking veterans. Did the insiders who discovered that the fraud was going on inform the banks' upper management and assume they'd done their duty? Of course not, they knew what they could expect. Even the VA and the Justice Department didn't seem to want to get involved. So did they figure they'd met their obligations and let it get swept under the rug? No, they took the initiative and filed suit in federal court. Would have been nice to have guys like these in the know about what Sandusky was up to.

http://www.wnem.com/story/16018410/tourist-area-residents-make-own-no-parking-signs

Edited November 11, 2011 by Pete C

[Tim McG]

... My problem is with the rush to judgment. Leadership is not defined by what he should have known ten years into the future, IMHO. ...

You've returned to this a couple of times. The problem is, we do know that child molesters continue to molest, particularly if they are never confronted, apprehended and some attempt at rehabilitation is made. Paterno indeed should have known that the man was going to continue to molest.

IF we know a person to actually be a child molester.

In this case, it was only an unproven allegation. There is absolutely no way to predict what will happen ten years into the future, especially when no charges were brough against Sandusky. What would support your claim then...supposition? Conjecture? Assumption?

C'mon, Man...you need way more than that to suspect anyone of anything.

Think about it, Jim. If your house was ransacked and robbed would you get in your car and go looking for the thieves or would you make a police report and allow the people trusted with that duty to arrest then convict those criminals? ...

The problem with this analogy is that Paterno didn't report anything to the police, did he?

He reported to the people who should have.

Again, one cannot go only to the police. By law, there has to be a CPS report filed FIRST. Then, the police step in.

That is the grim reality of child abuse reporting, Papsus. Don't get on me because you think it ought to be easier than that. We are a Nation of Laws, not knee-jerk reactionaries hell bent for unproven justice. Unless we want to go back to vigilantism that is what needs to be done in order to catch these bastards, OK?

Edited November 11, 2011 by GoodSpeak

[JSngry]

The difference here is you see micro-managing as a sign of good leadership. I call that anal-retentive.

A good leader hires/works for good people he/she can trust to do their duty. A poor leader micro-manages the hell out of them.

Really? Checking up on people every so often to see if the job is getting done to see if your trust is being validated is micro-managing?

"Hey guys...that guy that we think is fucking all these kids, how's that coming? We getting anywhere on that? What do we know, where are we going with this? Let's not drop the ball on this one, ok, too much at stake, let's get it right." That's micro-managing?

If you've ever been truly micro-managed, you'd realize just how absurd a statement that is...

Edited November 11, 2011 by JSngry

[Tim McG]

To expect one's employer to do the right thing in a criminal matter involving its own is not reasonable in the "moral" climate of business.

Fine.

Then when the court throws out the case on the technicallity of not following proper procedure in reporting, investigating and prosecuting an alleged child molester, you can tell me that comment is justified.

The difference here is you see micro-managing as a sign of good leadership. I call that anal-retentive.

A good leader hires/works for good people he/she can trust to do their duty. A poor leader micro-manages the hell out of them.

Really? Checking up on people every so often to see if the job is getting done to see if your trust is being validated is micro-managing?

"Hey guys...that guy that we think is fucking all these kids, how's that coming? We getting anywhere on that? What do we know, where are we going with this? Let's not drop the ball on this one, ok, too much at stake, let's get it right." That's micro-managing?

If you've ever been truly micro-managed, you'd realize just how absurd a statement that is...

Micro-managed...in the public education arena? You have just got to be joking if you think that doesn't occur and on an hourly basis in my job.

Obviously, you have never reported on child abuse or you wouldn't make such an unfortunate statement like you just did.

[JSngry]

I have no doubt that you're subject to absurd levels of micro-management in the arena of public educaton.

But -

You are labor, being managed. Paterno was management, dealing with fellow management..

The only thing that would be "unfortunate" is if you are forming your opinions without a recognition of (or a recognition but also a choice to deny) that most fundamental of differences.

[papsrus]

C'mon, Man...you need way more than that to suspect anyone of anything.

Like, say, an eye-witness account?

He reported to the people who should have. ... Again, one cannot go only to the police.

He did not go only to the police. He did not go to the police at all.

Unless we want to go back to vigilantism that is what needs to be done in order to catch these bastards, OK?

I think there are choices other than resorting to vigilantism. Reporting allegations of criminal activity on the part of someone under your supervision to the police, that would be one alternative.

[Aggie87]

The graduate assistant waited TEN years before saying anything. Just exactly how long do we give an emotionally shocked eyewitness before he should come forward and do his duty?

He *didn't* wait ten years. He promptly reported it to his boss, Joe Paterno. That is exactly what you said earlier in this thread that employees are supposed to do - use the chain of command, not go to the police.

You're not being consistent here.

[JSngry]

Really, I'm tired of arguing with one guy who thinks that Paterno's getting a raw deal for being held accountable for an injudicious failure to use power and influence that on the one hand he had but on the other hand he shouldn't have been expected to utilize out of fears of micro-managing and/or otherwise causing trouble. Power and influence are only useful if you don't use them in difficult situations, apparently.

That may not be the intended argument, but that's all I can get out of it. My fault, no doubt...

Edited November 11, 2011 by JSngry

[Brownian Motion]

The graduate assistant waited TEN years before saying anything. Just exactly how long do we give an emotionally shocked eyewitness before he should come forward and do his duty?

He *didn't* wait ten years. He promptly reported it to his boss, Joe Paterno. That is exactly what you said earlier in this thread that employees are supposed to do - use the chain of command, not go to the police.

You're not being consistent here.

It's not really a matter of a lack of consistency. Goodspeak has not bothered to master the simple facts of the case. Arguing with him is a fool's errand.

[Pete C]

You're not being consistent here.

.

[Tim McG]

I have no doubt that you're subject to absurd levels of micro-management in the arena of public educaton.

But -

You are labor, being managed. Paterno was management, dealing with fellow management..

The only thing that would be "unfortunate" is if you are forming your opinions without a recognition of (or a recognition but also a choice to deny) that most fundamental of differences.

Managers have their bosses, too. And they get managed as well.

I was in management for a retail firm for several years before becoming an educator. There isn't a whole lot of difference except in the title.

Edited November 11, 2011 by GoodSpeak

[Leeway]

Says Good Speak: Think about it, Jim. If your house was ransacked and robbed would you get in your car and go looking for the thieves or would you make a police report and allow the people trusted with that duty to arrest then convict those criminals?

Likewise, if I was told by someone I thought was credible, that a kid was raped by someone I knew, a co-worker (to put it in in its most basic terms), I would get in my car and drive to the police state and tell them.

It occurs to me that your, "tell your boss, acquit yourself of further responsibility," is the obverse of the, "I was only following orders" defense.

Um...OK.

You said that you would get in the car and go to the police thereby trusting them to follow through [though the first thing they would ask is if you filed a report with CPS, you know, following orders]. You didn't say you would hunt the molester down yourself. Am I right? Isn't that exactly what I just said to Jim?

Applying your logic, wouldn't that also be "acquit(ing) yourself of further responsibility"?

There is a huge difference between telling some middle manager who probably owes his job to you, and telling the police who have a statutory authority to investigate and prosecute criminal activity. You are like the guys who were indicted; apparently you can't figure out that little lesson in civics. Going to the police in such cases is fulfilling my responsibility. Paterno did not do that. Nobody did that. Shameful.

You seem to be conflating workplace decorum and criminal conduct. If you show up late for a meeting, your boss tells his/her boss, you end up with a reprimand. You rape someone in the storeroom, it is no longer a matter of workplace performance, but criminal conduct requiring police attention.

I also think your reading of the factual situation is naive, Paterno IS Penn State football. Has been for many decades. He's not some guy on an hourly wage cleaning up the gym. His authority and consequent level of responsibility is much, much higher.

Thank goodness the Board of Trustees got it right.

He is a football coach, Leeway...not God.

He may have tons of this power you speak of, but only with regard to PSU athletics/football.

He is the best-known, longest-serving football coach, enormously prestigious and powerful. In Happy Valley, he is a god. But you don't have to be god to pick up a phone and call the cops. You just have to have a conscience. Paterno and the school admin guys chose to allow Sandusky to prey on kids rather than allow these things to come to light. That's why they are all fired and/or indicted.

[Tim McG]

The graduate assistant waited TEN years before saying anything. Just exactly how long do we give an emotionally shocked eyewitness before he should come forward and do his duty?

He *didn't* wait ten years. He promptly reported it to his boss, Joe Paterno. That is exactly what you said earlier in this thread that employees are supposed to do - use the chain of command, not go to the police.

You're not being consistent here.

It's not really a matter of a lack of consistency. Goodspeak has not bothered to master the simple facts of the case. Arguing with him is a fool's errand.

Right.

You the resident expert on "the simple facts of the case"? Then educate me oh wise one. Show me where I'm wrong.

It is the opiate of the self-important to claim such superioirty, BM.

[Leeway]

The graduate assistant waited TEN years before saying anything. Just exactly how long do we give an emotionally shocked eyewitness before he should come forward and do his duty?

He *didn't* wait ten years. He promptly reported it to his boss, Joe Paterno. That is exactly what you said earlier in this thread that employees are supposed to do - use the chain of command, not go to the police.

You're not being consistent here.

It's not really a matter of a lack of consistency. Goodspeak has not bothered to master the simple facts of the case. Arguing with him is a fool's errand.

Right.

You the resident expert on "the simple facts of the case"? Then educate me oh wise one. Show me where I'm wrong.

It is the opiate of the self-important to claim such superioirty, BM.

If anyone has claimed self-importance and superiority on this thread it is you. Seems to me this is no longer about Paterno, it's about GoodSpeak.

[Tim McG]

Says Good Speak: Think about it, Jim. If your house was ransacked and robbed would you get in your car and go looking for the thieves or would you make a police report and allow the people trusted with that duty to arrest then convict those criminals?

Likewise, if I was told by someone I thought was credible, that a kid was raped by someone I knew, a co-worker (to put it in in its most basic terms), I would get in my car and drive to the police state and tell them.

It occurs to me that your, "tell your boss, acquit yourself of further responsibility," is the obverse of the, "I was only following orders" defense.

Um...OK.

You said that you would get in the car and go to the police thereby trusting them to follow through [though the first thing they would ask is if you filed a report with CPS, you know, following orders]. You didn't say you would hunt the molester down yourself. Am I right? Isn't that exactly what I just said to Jim?

Applying your logic, wouldn't that also be "acquit(ing) yourself of further responsibility"?

There is a huge difference between telling some middle manager who probably owes his job to you, and telling the police who have a statutory authority to investigate and prosecute criminal activity. You are like the guys who were indicted; apparently you can't figure out that little lesson in civics. Going to the police in such cases is fulfilling my responsibility. Paterno did not do that. Nobody did that. Shameful.

You seem to be conflating workplace decorum and criminal conduct. If you show up late for a meeting, your boss tells his/her boss, you end up with a reprimand. You rape someone in the storeroom, it is no longer a matter of workplace performance, but criminal conduct requiring police attention.

I also think your reading of the factual situation is naive, Paterno IS Penn State football. Has been for many decades. He's not some guy on an hourly wage cleaning up the gym. His authority and consequent level of responsibility is much, much higher.

Thank goodness the Board of Trustees got it right.

He is a football coach, Leeway...not God.

He may have tons of this power you speak of, but only with regard to PSU athletics/football.

He is the best-known, longest-serving football coach, enormously prestigious and powerful. In Happy Valley, he is a god. But you don't have to be god to pick up a phone and call the cops. You just have to have a conscience. Paterno and the school admin guys chose to allow Sandusky to prey on kids rather than allow these things to come to light. That's why they are all fired and/or indicted.

Paterno reported to his superiors. The mark of a good leader.

Paterno only had an allegation from the grad assistant to go on; no proof Sandusky was/is a child molester.

Paterno is a coach not the CPS or the police or the court system.

Paterno was not the eye witness.

He didn't let anybody abuse children; Sandusky did that on his own and in secrecy.

Pick up the phone and calling the cops is NOT EVIDENCE nor is it legal and dutiful reporting procedure.

You obviously do not know how the system works or why the checks and balances are in place regarding the reporting of child abuse.

I am as disgusted by the systematic abuse of children by that Sandusky asshole as you are, OK?

Edited November 11, 2011 by GoodSpeak

[Leeway]

Says Good Speak: Think about it, Jim. If your house was ransacked and robbed would you get in your car and go looking for the thieves or would you make a police report and allow the people trusted with that duty to arrest then convict those criminals?

Likewise, if I was told by someone I thought was credible, that a kid was raped by someone I knew, a co-worker (to put it in in its most basic terms), I would get in my car and drive to the police state and tell them.

It occurs to me that your, "tell your boss, acquit yourself of further responsibility," is the obverse of the, "I was only following orders" defense.

Um...OK.

You said that you would get in the car and go to the police thereby trusting them to follow through [though the first thing they would ask is if you filed a report with CPS, you know, following orders]. You didn't say you would hunt the molester down yourself. Am I right? Isn't that exactly what I just said to Jim?

Applying your logic, wouldn't that also be "acquit(ing) yourself of further responsibility"?

There is a huge difference between telling some middle manager who probably owes his job to you, and telling the police who have a statutory authority to investigate and prosecute criminal activity. You are like the guys who were indicted; apparently you can't figure out that little lesson in civics. Going to the police in such cases is fulfilling my responsibility. Paterno did not do that. Nobody did that. Shameful.

You seem to be conflating workplace decorum and criminal conduct. If you show up late for a meeting, your boss tells his/her boss, you end up with a reprimand. You rape someone in the storeroom, it is no longer a matter of workplace performance, but criminal conduct requiring police attention.

I also think your reading of the factual situation is naive, Paterno IS Penn State football. Has been for many decades. He's not some guy on an hourly wage cleaning up the gym. His authority and consequent level of responsibility is much, much higher.

Thank goodness the Board of Trustees got it right.

He is a football coach, Leeway...not God.

He may have tons of this power you speak of, but only with regard to PSU athletics/football.

He is the best-known, longest-serving football coach, enormously prestigious and powerful. In Happy Valley, he is a god. But you don't have to be god to pick up a phone and call the cops. You just have to have a conscience. Paterno and the school admin guys chose to allow Sandusky to prey on kids rather than allow these things to come to light. That's why they are all fired and/or indicted.

Paterno reported to his superiors. The mark of a good leader.

No, the mark of a follower, hardly a good leader. Once again, this is not about Performance Management.

Paterno only had an allegation from the grad assistant to go on; no proof Sandusky was/is a child molester.

Even accepting your version, that's enough to report the allegation to police.

Paterno is a coach not the CPS or the police or the court system.

No, he is not that, nor expected to be. As a coach, teacher and school employee, he had an obligation to at least report it. This is not stealing paper clips, we're talking child rape here.

Paterno was not the eye witness.

That's a craven argument. Does he have to be to report an the witness testimony of someone under his command to the police? That's leadership.

He didn't let anybody abuse children; Sandusky did that on his own and in secrecy.

Sandusly did it, Paterno enabled it.

Pick up the phione and calling the cops is NOT EVIDENCE nor is it legal and dutiful reporting procedure.

You obviously don't know how the system works. Calling the cops is not evidence, but it give the cops a chance to gather evidence.

You obviously do not know how the system works or why the checks and balances are in place regarding the reporting of child abuse.

Paterno and his school VP and President cronies blew right through the checks and balances. Frankly, you really don't know what you are talking about here.

I am as disgusted by the systematic abuse of children by that Sandusky asshole as you are, OK?

Thank you. We agree on the most important point.

[Tim McG]

Says Good Speak: Think about it, Jim. If your house was ransacked and robbed would you get in your car and go looking for the thieves or would you make a police report and allow the people trusted with that duty to arrest then convict those criminals?

Likewise, if I was told by someone I thought was credible, that a kid was raped by someone I knew, a co-worker (to put it in in its most basic terms), I would get in my car and drive to the police state and tell them.

It occurs to me that your, "tell your boss, acquit yourself of further responsibility," is the obverse of the, "I was only following orders" defense.

Um...OK.

You said that you would get in the car and go to the police thereby trusting them to follow through [though the first thing they would ask is if you filed a report with CPS, you know, following orders]. You didn't say you would hunt the molester down yourself. Am I right? Isn't that exactly what I just said to Jim?

Applying your logic, wouldn't that also be "acquit(ing) yourself of further responsibility"?

There is a huge difference between telling some middle manager who probably owes his job to you, and telling the police who have a statutory authority to investigate and prosecute criminal activity. You are like the guys who were indicted; apparently you can't figure out that little lesson in civics. Going to the police in such cases is fulfilling my responsibility. Paterno did not do that. Nobody did that. Shameful.

You seem to be conflating workplace decorum and criminal conduct. If you show up late for a meeting, your boss tells his/her boss, you end up with a reprimand. You rape someone in the storeroom, it is no longer a matter of workplace performance, but criminal conduct requiring police attention.

I also think your reading of the factual situation is naive, Paterno IS Penn State football. Has been for many decades. He's not some guy on an hourly wage cleaning up the gym. His authority and consequent level of responsibility is much, much higher.

Thank goodness the Board of Trustees got it right.

He is a football coach, Leeway...not God.

He may have tons of this power you speak of, but only with regard to PSU athletics/football.

He is the best-known, longest-serving football coach, enormously prestigious and powerful. In Happy Valley, he is a god. But you don't have to be god to pick up a phone and call the cops. You just have to have a conscience. Paterno and the school admin guys chose to allow Sandusky to prey on kids rather than allow these things to come to light. That's why they are all fired and/or indicted.

Paterno reported to his superiors. The mark of a good leader.

No, the mark of a follower, hardly a good leader. Once again, this is not about Performance Management.

Paterno only had an allegation from the grad assistant to go on; no proof Sandusky was/is a child molester.

Even accepting your version, that's enough to report the allegation to police.

Paterno is a coach not the CPS or the police or the court system.

No, he is not that, nor expected to be. As a coach, teacher and school employee, he had an obligation to at least report it. This is not stealing paper clips, we're talking child rape here.

Paterno was not the eye witness.

That's a craven argument. Does he have to be to report an the witness testimony of someone under his command to the police? That's leadership.

He didn't let anybody abuse children; Sandusky did that on his own and in secrecy.

Sandusly did it, Paterno enabled it.

Pick up the phione and calling the cops is NOT EVIDENCE nor is it legal and dutiful reporting procedure.

You obviously don't know how the system works. Calling the cops is not evidence, but it give the cops a chance to gather evidence.

You obviously do not know how the system works or why the checks and balances are in place regarding the reporting of child abuse.

Paterno and his school VP and President cronies blew right through the checks and balances. Frankly, you really don't know what you are talking about here.

I am as disgusted by the systematic abuse of children by that Sandusky asshole as you are, OK?

Thank you. We agree on the most important point.

Like there was some reason not to?

[Tim McG]

Here ya go:

1998 -- Penn State police and the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare investigate an incident in which the mother of an 11-year-old boy reported that Sandusky had showered with her son and may have had inappropriate conduct with him. In a June 1, 1998, interview with investigators from both agencies, Sandusky admits showering naked with the boy, admitting that it was wrong and promising not to do it again, according to the grand jury report. The district attorney advises investigators that no charges will be filed and the university police chief instructs that the case be closed, according to the testimony included in the grand jury report of the police detective who investigated the incident.

1999 -- Sandusky retires from Penn State after coaching there for 32 years, but stays on as a volunteer and retains full access to the campus and football facilities.

Case declared closed in 1998 by DA and University Police

And I told you so.

Edited November 11, 2011 by GoodSpeak

[JSngry]

1999 -- Sandusky retires from Penn State after coaching there for 32 years, but stays on as a volunteer and retains full access to the campus and football facilities.

Because, uh, they do that for everybody?