sickening penn state football allegations

[T.D.]

Regarding the non-reporting of criminal activity, I compare this in some ways to the Salomon Bros. (Wall Street) Treasury bid-rigging scandal of 1991. In that case, the supervisor of the law-breaking employee privately reported the conduct to top company executives, but nothing further was done. This very nearly took the company down: Warren Buffett had to temporarily act as chief executive until the firm could be sold, and all employees in the relevant chain of command were fired.

Applying this to Penn State, I expect all of the implicated heads to roll, from the University President through the AD, down to Paterno, possibly even McQueary. I wouldn't even be surprised if the University sees fit to suspend the football program, or administer some kind of "death penalty" a la SMU 1987 (I personally find this a most appropriate solution).

Disclaimer: I don't intend to draw any parallels between child abuse and financial shenanigans, only to make disciplinary predictions.

[alocispepraluger102]

just released

[JSngry]

At this point, words don't mean a whole helluva lot, do they.

[Tim McG]

I submit, words do mean one helluva lot...especially if we listen to the media jackals circle in for the "kill" on Paterno like they have. Reporting news ahead of the facts and trying Paterno in a speculative kangaroo court is just plain bullshit.

The media should be ashamed of themselves.

[JETman]

Paterno has announced that he is retiring at the end of this year in order to "make it easy on the University".

In the words of another Long Island blowhard (Mike Francesca) "this is just Joe being all about Joe. If he wanted to make it easy on them, he would have RESIGNED effective today".

I can't say that I disagree.

[Randy Twizzle]

I submit, words do mean one helluva lot...especially if we listen to the media jackals circle in for the "kill" on Paterno like they have. Reporting news ahead of the facts and trying Paterno in a speculative kangaroo court is just plain bullshit.

The media should be ashamed of themselves.

The media should be ashamed? Have you read Pdf file of the grand jury proceedings concerning Jerry Sandusky And Paterno let this monster on campus for 10 years after knowing what this POS was doingN Now I understand why I stopped reading your posts back in the Barry Bonds days. It's too late now I've already had a stroke

[Tim McG]

So the media wins.

And who was the guilty party again...?

Wow.

[Tim McG]

I submit, words do mean one helluva lot...especially if we listen to the media jackals circle in for the "kill" on Paterno like they have. Reporting news ahead of the facts and trying Paterno in a speculative kangaroo court is just plain bullshit.

The media should be ashamed of themselves.

The media should be ashamed? Have you read Pdf file of the grand jury proceedings concerning Jerry Sandusky And Paterno let this monster on campus for 10 years after knowing what this POS was doingN Now I understand why I stopped reading your posts back in the Barry Bonds days. It's too late now I've already had a stroke

Barry Bonds....WTF does a conviction on obstruction of justice have to do with child molestation? Um. Sure, Randy.

On topic: He reported an allegation to the authorities. He did his job and the Penn State officials did not do theirs. That does not make him culpable nor does it make him the criminal. Sandusky is the child molester which Paterno and everybody else [excepting the AD and his assistant] learned long after the fact, Randy. Or perhaps you don't understand what an unproven, uninvestigated allegation is. I won't speculate.

You are damning Paterno in hindsight. Like he should be able to read the future somehow?

This would be like getting pissed at the police because they should have known who a muderer is before he commits the murder.

Maybe you need to actually read the PDF file, eh?

Then look for an excuse for your verbal abusiveness.

Paterno has announced that he is retiring at the end of this year in order to "make it easy on the University".

In the words of another Long Island blowhard (Mike Francesca) "this is just Joe being all about Joe. If he wanted to make it easy on them, he would have RESIGNED effective today".

I can't say that I disagree.

I think that is just wrong.

If Penn State has any guts, they will refuse his offer of resignation.

Edited November 10, 2011 by GoodSpeak

[Leeway]

"If Penn State has any guts, they will refuse his offer of resignation. "

C'mon dude, that' completely over the top,and just flat wrong. That would be the right thing for Paterno to do; too bad he didn't.

[Aggie87]

But we are dealing with whether or not Paterno did what is required of him according to the law.

While he have have done enough legally, he SURE didn't do enough morally.

There's grand jury evidence that Paterno knew about an on-campus Sandusky molestation in 1998 - Sandusky even admitted to wrongdoing, and Paterno basically let Sandusky stick around the campus anyway. If you don't think everybody deferred to Joe Paterno on that decision, you're fooling yourself.

Then 4 years later, when another Sandusky child rape occurs in the PSU football showers and is brought to Paterno, his decision is to just let his "bosses" know? "Oh by the way boss, Sandusky was caught 'horsing around' in the showers with a 10 year old again." Mentally, he's ok with whatever happens after that? To include allowing Sandusky to continue to be on campus AND continue to bring young boys to the football team showers repeatedly?? Reportedly the number of victims that have come forward is about 20 now (8-9 are confirmed or at least credible at this point).

For that he should be roundly condemned. Legally maybe he did enough. Morally, he's a complete, utter failure.

To be sure, Sandusky is the monster. But McQueary (the 2002 witness who by remaining silent appears to have been promoted up the coaching ranks at PSU), Paterno, the AD, and the school President (and any others who were reported to) are all guilty of allowing that monster to continue his evil.

Had Paterno gone to the police after reporting to his boss, he'd be revered in the public eye for being morally upright. Whether he was at risk of losing his job (as the most powerful person at PSU, doubtful) or not. And even if he had somehow bizarrely lost his job, there would have been dozens of equivalent jobs available to him around the country immediately. But since he didn't and aided in the continued coverup, he deserves the public scorn he'll have the rest of his life.

In my opinion.

[Tim McG]

"If Penn State has any guts, they will refuse his offer of resignation. "

C'mon dude, that' completely over the top,and just flat wrong. That would be the right thing for Paterno to do; too bad he didn't.

Only if he is guilty of some impropriety. Otherwise, there is no good reason for him to leave.

[Tim McG]

But we are dealing with whether or not Paterno did what is required of him according to the law.

While he have have done enough legally, he SURE didn't do enough morally.

There's grand jury evidence that Paterno knew about an on-campus Sandusky molestation in 1998 - Sandusky even admitted to wrongdoing, and Paterno basically let Sandusky stick around the campus anyway. If you don't think everybody deferred to Joe Paterno on that decision, you're fooling yourself.

Then 4 years later, when another Sandusky child rape occurs in the PSU football showers and is brought to Paterno, his decision is to just let his "bosses" know? "Oh by the way boss, Sandusky was caught 'horsing around' in the showers with a 10 year old again." Mentally, he's ok with whatever happens after that? To include allowing Sandusky to continue to be on campus AND continue to bring young boys to the football team showers repeatedly?? Reportedly the number of victims that have come forward is about 20 now (8-9 are confirmed or at least credible at this point).

For that he should be roundly condemned. Legally maybe he did enough. Morally, he's a complete, utter failure.

To be sure, Sandusky is the monster. But McQueary (the 2002 witness who by remaining silent appears to have been promoted up the coaching ranks at PSU), Paterno, the AD, and the school President (and any others who were reported to) are all guilty of allowing that monster to continue his evil.

Had Paterno gone to the police after reporting to his boss, he'd be revered in the public eye for being morally upright. Whether he was at risk of losing his job (as the most powerful person at PSU, doubtful) or not. And even if he had somehow bizarrely lost his job, there would have been dozens of equivalent jobs available to him around the country immediately. But since he didn't and aided in the continued coverup, he deserves the public scorn he'll have the rest of his life.

In my opinion.

Again, that is not how the reporting of child abuse works, Aggie.

Besides, what we know now is not what Paterno knew then and as a second hand reporter, the eye witness should have been the guy to do far more than he did.

Where is the public outcry on that point?

I just don't see how we can blame Paterno for not doing more when at the time there was nothing more to do but report it. If we are going to place blame for information on a person in retrospect then nobody is safe from being blamed for anything regarding children. How can anyone believe that an allegation should be treated as if he knew what happened ten years after the fact? Then hammer him because he didn't? That's crazy.

He didn't see it, he wasn't there and he wasn't a part of Sandusky's abuse. It was an allegation which came to nothing because Penn State officials, whom he reported to, did nothing. Now how else should he act based on that scenario...continue with his own investigation? Nothing happened so he goes on as if nothing was wrong. Anybody would.

People make false accusations all the time and in the education biz, we deal with actual evidence of wrong doing not speculation or assumption. Otherwise, we'd be doing nothing else but look for child abuse. That isn't our job. Our job is to do the work of the school/university. After I make a report on child abuse, I don't hunt the guy down or arrest anybody. That is the job of the authorities. Yet using this line of reasoning, I should be guilty of not doing enough because my boss didn't carry through? The officials are the ones who blew it. Unless there is evidence to the contary, blaming Paterno is just plain wrong.

Edited November 10, 2011 by GoodSpeak

[JSngry]

So, is/was PAterno a living, breathing, salaried leader, or is/was he just some Macy's parade balloon?

[Tim McG]

So, is/was PAterno a living, breathing, salaried leader, or is/was he just some Macy's parade balloon?

Point?

[Leeway]

"If Penn State has any guts, they will refuse his offer of resignation. "

C'mon dude, that' completely over the top,and just flat wrong. That would be the right thing for Paterno to do; too bad he didn't.

Only if he is guilty of some impropriety. Otherwise, there is no good reason for him to leave.

I don't have any doubt he is guilty of "impropriety," and most responsible people don't either. Lucky for him the grand jury decided he wasn't guilty of a crime. Any other teacher (and that i what he is) would not have fared so well. You have set the standard so low for moral and ethical behavior that it would be a bad thing if it ever became common. Let me ask you: what if it was your kid in that shower? What if it was YOU in that shower? Which reminded me of this article:

Paterno BYSTANDER

[Tim McG]

"If Penn State has any guts, they will refuse his offer of resignation. "

C'mon dude, that' completely over the top,and just flat wrong. That would be the right thing for Paterno to do; too bad he didn't.

Only if he is guilty of some impropriety. Otherwise, there is no good reason for him to leave.

I don't have any doubt he is guilty of "impropriety," and most responsible people don't either. Lucky for him the grand jury decided he wasn't guilty of a crime. Any other teacher (and that i what he is) would not have fared so well. You have set the standard so low for moral and ethical behavior that it would be a bad thing if it ever became common. Let me ask you: what if it was your kid in that shower? What if it was YOU in that shower? Which reminded me of this article:

Paterno BYSTANDER

Huh?

Who are these "most responsible people" you speak of...all members of the court of opinion?

Evidence, dear boy, where is the evidence to support your broad speculation?

I won't even dignify your thoughtless questions about something which has no bearing at all on this case. How inappropriate. And completely abusive.

[JSngry]

So, is/was PAterno a living, breathing, salaried leader, or is/was he just some Macy's parade balloon?

Point?

Point is, if you're a leader and something like this comes to your attention, you need to lead, not hand off the technicalities, step back, and say "all done, I got work to do, see ya'!"

And if you're not a leader, then why you making all that money and getting all that glory?

I know real worlds can get complicated and political and all that stuff, but good god, you get a report of one of your underlings sodomizing a 10 year old on school property, it's pretty much time to lead.

I've no doubt that Joe Paterno has done a lot of good things for a lot of people over the years and has been a true leader in many ways on many occasions. But this, this is just on big giant FAIL.

[Aggie87]

Yet using this line of reasoning, I should be guilty of not doing enough because my boss didn't carry through?

If you KNEW someone abused children before and was allowed to remain around them, then it was reported to you that that person raped yet another child, your only thought is to wash your hands of it - legally speaking - by reporting it to your boss?? Then when that person is allowed to continue hanging out in showers with young boys,and you know it - you feel you have done your job, so all's good?

Yes, I'd say you would be guilty of not doing enough, if all you did was report it to your boss, and nothing else. Absolutely.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Aggie87

[Leeway]

"If Penn State has any guts, they will refuse his offer of resignation. "

C'mon dude, that' completely over the top,and just flat wrong. That would be the right thing for Paterno to do; too bad he didn't.

Only if he is guilty of some impropriety. Otherwise, there is no good reason for him to leave.

I don't have any doubt he is guilty of "impropriety," and most responsible people don't either. Lucky for him the grand jury decided he wasn't guilty of a crime. Any other teacher (and that i what he is) would not have fared so well. You have set the standard so low for moral and ethical behavior that it would be a bad thing if it ever became common. Let me ask you: what if it was your kid in that shower? What if it was YOU in that shower? Which reminded me of this article:

Paterno BYSTANDER

Huh?

Who are these "most responsible people" you speak of...all members of the court of opinion?

Evidence, dear boy, where is the evidence to support your broad speculation?

I won't even dignify your thoughtless questions about something which has no bearing at all on this case. How inappropriate. And completely abusive.

Not so abused as the little boys that WERE abused. How utterly inappropriate of you to even insinuate that. Thoughtless questions? That's your problem: you don't want to deal with the situation as it was and is. Just some hyper technical point about evidence, as best as I can make out. You're wrong on that too. Hope nobody ever has to depend on you to step up and do the right thing.

[Tim McG]

Yet using this line of reasoning, I should be guilty of not doing enough because my boss didn't carry through?

If you KNEW someone abused children before and was allowed to remain around them, then it was reported to you that that person raped yet another child, your only thought is to wash your hands of it - legally speaking - by reporting it to your boss?? Then when that person is allowed to continue hanging out in showers with young boys,and you know it - you feel you have done your job, so all's good?

Yes, I'd say you would be guilty of not doing enough, if all you did was report it to your boss, and nothing else. Absolutely.

Wash my hands....I can't even believe you said that. I have dedicated my LIFE to the education and protection of my students. How dare you even assume you know what's in my heart or in my ability to report on such things. I mean the absolute nerve.

All Paterno knows is an alleged eye witness told him of sexual abuse. That's it.

All I ever know is what the student tells me. That's it.

I make the report and contact CPS through my written response. That is all I can do.

Yet you have the unmitigated gall to sit in judgement of me and my abilty to discharge my legal duties as a frontline reporter of child abuse? Really? I am singularly amazed, Aggie. Tell me, have you had to report on child abuse...ever?

I'll be as direct as I can with you, Aggie...you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. None.

"If Penn State has any guts, they will refuse his offer of resignation. "

C'mon dude, that' completely over the top,and just flat wrong. That would be the right thing for Paterno to do; too bad he didn't.

Only if he is guilty of some impropriety. Otherwise, there is no good reason for him to leave.

I don't have any doubt he is guilty of "impropriety," and most responsible people don't either. Lucky for him the grand jury decided he wasn't guilty of a crime. Any other teacher (and that i what he is) would not have fared so well. You have set the standard so low for moral and ethical behavior that it would be a bad thing if it ever became common. Let me ask you: what if it was your kid in that shower? What if it was YOU in that shower? Which reminded me of this article:

Paterno BYSTANDER

Huh?

Who are these "most responsible people" you speak of...all members of the court of opinion?

Evidence, dear boy, where is the evidence to support your broad speculation?

I won't even dignify your thoughtless questions about something which has no bearing at all on this case. How inappropriate. And completely abusive.

Not so abused as the little boys that WERE abused. How utterly inappropriate of you to even insinuate that. Thoughtless questions? That's your problem: you don't want to deal with the situation as it was and is. Just some hyper technical point about evidence, as best as I can make out. You're wrong on that too. Hope nobody ever has to depend on you to step up and do the right thing.

Deal with it...you have just GOT to be kidding me.

Go back and read what I have already posted. That is, if you can.

Geez, What an abusive jerk. Maybe somebody needs to report on your abusivness, eh?

Wow.

Edited November 10, 2011 by GoodSpeak

[Tim McG]

So, is/was PAterno a living, breathing, salaried leader, or is/was he just some Macy's parade balloon?

Point?

Point is, if you're a leader and something like this comes to your attention, you need to lead, not hand off the technicalities, step back, and say "all done, I got work to do, see ya'!"

And if you're not a leader, then why you making all that money and getting all that glory?

I know real worlds can get complicated and political and all that stuff, but good god, you get a report of one of your underlings sodomizing a 10 year old on school property, it's pretty much time to lead.

I've no doubt that Joe Paterno has done a lot of good things for a lot of people over the years and has been a true leader in many ways on many occasions. But this, this is just on big giant FAIL.

A true leader knows when and with whom to leave the responsiblity to pursue legal avenues unavailable to him.

What you are assuming is Paterno just wanted to get this off his plate and duck the issue. He did what the law expected of him.

What did you want him to do...form a lynch mob? C'mon, Jim. Use your power to reason.

[JSngry]

My power to reason tells me that there's a lot of area in between forming a lynch mob and doing "what the law requires" - and nothing more, especially if you have power and influence with which to do it, which, unless he was a Macy's parade balloon, Paterno certainly had. Leaders lead, followers follow, and cowards...do neither. Anybody can be any one of those under any given set of circumstances. In this instance, Paterno pretty much cowardized.

Again, I'm not out to crucify the man or his life's work. But this is definitely a FAIL. Hell, he himself admits as much, now that he's had time to "reflect"...

[Chalupa]

"With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."

[Aggie87]

Yet using this line of reasoning, I should be guilty of not doing enough because my boss didn't carry through?

If you KNEW someone abused children before and was allowed to remain around them, then it was reported to you that that person raped yet another child, your only thought is to wash your hands of it - legally speaking - by reporting it to your boss?? Then when that person is allowed to continue hanging out in showers with young boys,and you know it - you feel you have done your job, so all's good?

Yes, I'd say you would be guilty of not doing enough, if all you did was report it to your boss, and nothing else. Absolutely.

Wash my hands....I can't even believe you said that. I have dedicated my LIFE to the education and protection of my students. How dare you even assume you know what's in my heart or in my ability to report on such things. I mean the absolute nerve.

All Paterno knows is an alleged eye witness told him of sexual abuse. That's it.

All I ever know is what the student tells me. That's it.

I make the report and contact CPS through my written response. That is all I can do.

Yet you have the unmitigated gall to sit in judgement of me and my abilty to discharge my legal duties as a frontline reporter of child abuse? Really? I am singularly amazed, Aggie. Tell me, have you had to report on child abuse...ever?

I'll be as direct as I can with you, Aggie...you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. None.

You asked a question for which there is a yes or no answer. I gave you my answer. The answer that works for me.

Your response indicates you will do exactly what is legally required of you. That is fine. I never accused you of not doing what is legally required.

For me that is not enough.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Aggie87

[Aggie87]

Paterno has just been fired by PSU.