sickening penn state football allegations

[JETman]

Another aspect of this (can't find the story now, but I read it yesterday) is that pro-Paterno and anti-Paterno forces (at the upper levels of the school's administration) at Penn State have been locked in behind-the-scenes combat for more than a decade -- the latter wanting to get rid of/ease out the cranky, dictatorial "I get whatever I want" Joe P., the former fiercely defensive of Joe P. and their own prerogatives that stem from him. Exactly how that strife played into the handling (or nonhandling) of this scandal, I'm not sure, but one could see where it might have led all sides there to see it primarily through the lenses of their own goals and antagonisms rather than thinking of the allegedly abused kids, not to mention all the kids who might be (and allegedly were) abused down the road.

As a New Yawka myself, my take is that Paterno in New York is merely ordinary. Within the safe confines of backwoods PA, he is a God. Bring him back down to earth, I say.

[seeline]

JETman - true. He's a deity around here - have you seen the JoePa "shrine" outside Beaver Stadium? (The statue of him where people love to pose for pics.)

It might be in everyone's best interest to shut down the football team for a while. I know that will probably sound ridiculous to some, but it could send a message re. zero tolerance. (And kids can get football scholarships at other schools.)

I'd love to see the football program go down to the level of the Temple Owls (a longtime opponent) and put the emphasis squarely on education, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

Edited November 8, 2011 by seeline

[JETman]

Unfortunately, I have seen it.

[seeline]

Sounds like your reaction to it is very similar to mine...

[JETman]

Sounds like your reaction to it is very similar to mine...

Yes, I've been dragged to Beaver Stadium many a time!

[Tim McG]

Follow up to find out what was done? Ask his close friend what the fuck he was doing with that ten year old boy?

OK.

The problem is he did what was legally demanded of him. He has no authority beyond that. Besides, we don't know he if did not speak to the offender. Stll, any repercussions are not within his control.

[PHILLYQ]

What perplexes me is how anyone could even suggest Joe Paterno had anything to do with the cover-up.

By law, he reported the incident to his superiors. By law, it is up to them to pursue the issue including contacting authorities. Yet there are those in the media who insist upon saying he needed to do more. What more can he do?

1)He could make sure that Sanduasky gets nowhere near the campus and has no association with the school

2) He could CALL THE COPS- this is a very serious crime.

3)He could ask the AD, college President, etc what happened to the allegations against Sandusky

4) He could contact the graduate assistant and see what happened as a result of the allegations

5) Threaten to go public on Sandusky if he doesn't come clean

PATERNO DID NONE OF THE ABOVE

Sure, he may have done the technical minimum required of him as an employee at Penn State, but he has an obligation as a human being, a father, an adult responsible for young people entrusted to his care to do much more. He failed in that miserably, probably to save face for the college.

[Noj]

I don't see how the gut reaction of the witness wasn't:

1. Immediately call the police.

2. If you're physically strong enough, intervene and stop the rape. Or find a big guy to help you stop it.

I'd have been hard-pressed to not assault the sick pervert, and would likely have a Louisville Slugger in mind.

[seeline]

PhillyQ - *and* blow the whistle on Second Mile, to try to stop Sandusky from having any further contact with kids - after all, he is a pedophile and repeat offender.

The sad thing: a lot of people are refusing to believe that Sandusky, Paterno etc. did anything wrong. They're those nice guys who blend in with the rest of the community and even (in Paterno's case) have listed phone numbers with their street address included.

Just regular "Humble Joe" types. [/sarcasm]

Sounds like your reaction to it is very similar to mine...

Yes, I've been dragged to Beaver Stadium many a time!

You mean you don't like posh tailgate parties?!

Edited November 8, 2011 by seeline

[JETman]

Follow up to find out what was done? Ask his close friend what the fuck he was doing with that ten year old boy?

OK.

The problem is he did what was legally demanded of him. He has no authority beyond that. Besides, we don't know he if did not speak to the offender. Stll, any repercussions are not within his control.

Know hypocrisy when you see it, please. Your arguments are falling on deaf ears.

Doesn't Mr. Gould realize that a lot of the beer-swilling Red Sox players he worships clearly come from the machismo, anything goes environment and culture that has pervaded our high school and college campuses for decades?

[seeline]

I don't see how the gut reaction of the witness wasn't:

1. Immediately call the police.

2. If you're physically strong enough, intervene and stop the rape. Or find a big guy to help you stop it.

I'd have been hard-pressed to not assault the sick pervert, and would likely have a Louisville Slugger in mind.

Because of g'damned football team loyalty, most likely - and McQueary's (grad assistant witness) job on the line (guessing). And maybe shock as well.

Sorry, I'm just furious at all of this - need to take a breather!

Edited November 8, 2011 by seeline

[JETman]

I don't see how the gut reaction of the witness wasn't:

1. Immediately call the police.

2. If you're physically strong enough, intervene and stop the rape. Or find a big guy to help you stop it.

I'd have been hard-pressed to not assault the sick pervert, and would likely have a Louisville Slugger in mind.

Take a look. Mike McQueary IS a big guy, and should have been able to give Sandusky a run for his money:

http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mcqueary_mike00.html

[Big Wheel]

I can understand McQueary freezing in the moment. If I were in his shoes, I probably would have been so shocked to see what he saw that I might have just bolted too. But I definitely can't understand how he could continue to coexist with Sandusky at practice and so forth. That's messed up.

[Dan Gould]

Follow up to find out what was done? Ask his close friend what the fuck he was doing with that ten year old boy?

OK.

The problem is he did what was legally demanded of him. He has no authority beyond that. Besides, we don't know he if did not speak to the offender. Stll, any repercussions are not within his control.

Know hypocrisy when you see it, please. Your arguments are falling on deaf ears.

Doesn't Mr. Gould realize that a lot of the beer-swilling Red Sox players he worships clearly come from the machismo, anything goes environment and culture that has pervaded our high school and college campuses for decades?

Can anyone translate this for me? No? I didn't think so.

[JETman]

Follow up to find out what was done? Ask his close friend what the fuck he was doing with that ten year old boy?

OK.

The problem is he did what was legally demanded of him. He has no authority beyond that. Besides, we don't know he if did not speak to the offender. Stll, any repercussions are not within his control.

Know hypocrisy when you see it, please. Your arguments are falling on deaf ears.

Doesn't Mr. Gould realize that a lot of the beer-swilling Red Sox players he worships clearly come from the machismo, anything goes environment and culture that has pervaded our high school and college campuses for decades?

Can anyone translate this for me? No? I didn't think so.

Why can't you? Did you attend UConn?

[Chicago Expat]

The sad thing: a lot of people are refusing to believe that Sandusky, Paterno etc. did anything wrong. They're those nice guys who blend in with the rest of the community and even (in Paterno's case) have listed phone numbers with their street address included.

I was made particularly nauseous by Matt Millen's comments about Sandusky. Apparently Matt knows the guy, knows what he stands for, and wouldn't at all be surprised if all the charges amounted to nothing. That said, Matt continued, people do make mistakes...

Mistakes. That's how Matt categorizes molesting and ruining the lives of children. To him, apparently it's just an understandable character flaw that occasionally comes to light.

Shameful.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Chicago Expat

[Dan Gould]

Follow up to find out what was done? Ask his close friend what the fuck he was doing with that ten year old boy?

OK.

The problem is he did what was legally demanded of him. He has no authority beyond that. Besides, we don't know he if did not speak to the offender. Stll, any repercussions are not within his control.

Know hypocrisy when you see it, please. Your arguments are falling on deaf ears.

Doesn't Mr. Gould realize that a lot of the beer-swilling Red Sox players he worships clearly come from the machismo, anything goes environment and culture that has pervaded our high school and college campuses for decades?

Can anyone translate this for me? No? I didn't think so.

Why can't you? Did you attend UConn?

More random idiotic blatherings. Do you enlist your dog to pound on the keyboard before you click submit?

[JETman]

Follow up to find out what was done? Ask his close friend what the fuck he was doing with that ten year old boy?

OK.

The problem is he did what was legally demanded of him. He has no authority beyond that. Besides, we don't know he if did not speak to the offender. Stll, any repercussions are not within his control.

Know hypocrisy when you see it, please. Your arguments are falling on deaf ears.

Doesn't Mr. Gould realize that a lot of the beer-swilling Red Sox players he worships clearly come from the machismo, anything goes environment and culture that has pervaded our high school and college campuses for decades?

Can anyone translate this for me? No? I didn't think so.

Why can't you? Did you attend UConn?

More random idiotic blatherings. Do you enlist your dog to pound on the keyboard before you click submit?

The reason you cannot understand what I said is that you are too focused on the inane details of who did what and why (as evidenced in your response to Good Speak) instead of on the bigger picture -- college athletic programs are corrupt and have always been so. I was pointing out the hyprocrisy in your forgiving the sins carried out by members of your beloved Red Sox as evidenced by your numerous temper tantrums.

[PHILLYQ]

The sad thing: a lot of people are refusing to believe that Sandusky, Paterno etc. did anything wrong. They're those nice guys who blend in with the rest of the community and even (in Paterno's case) have listed phone numbers with their street address included.

I was made particularly nauseous by Matt Millen's comments about Sandusky. Apparently Matt knows the guy, knows what he stands for, and wouldn't at all be surprised if all the charges amounted to nothing. That said, Matt continued, people do make mistakes...

Mistakes. That's how Matt categorizes molesting and ruining the lives of children. To him, apparently it's just an understandable character flaw that occasionally comes to light.

Shameful.

That is nauseating.

[Leeway]

I'm going to hazard a guess here and say that when the full facts are known, the situation will be found to be even worse that we think--and it is utterly horrible now. I'm primarily thinking about the abortive prior police investigation; would not be surprised to learn of influence peddling, obstruction of justice, and suppression of evidence to save "JoePa", the football program, and the image of Penn State. Something went wrong there. Frankly, they are still trying to save JoePa's ass. I suspect that the decision not to indict him is as much political as evidentiary.

I also agree with JetMan. College football and b-ball are massively corrupt, and need thorough reform. Unfortunately, chances of that happening widely are slim to none: too much money, too little respect for higher education, to generate real reform.

[Aggie87]

I'm going to hazard a guess here and say that when the full facts are known, the situation will be found to be even worse that we think--and it is utterly horrible now. I'm primarily thinking about the abortive prior police investigation; would not be surprised to learn of influence peddling, obstruction of justice, and suppression of evidence to save "JoePa", the football program, and the image of Penn State. Something went wrong there.

Don't forget to add in a dead or MIA District Attorney, who apparently tried to destroy his computer's hard drive before he turned up missing. Or somebody who wanted him gone tried to destroy it.

[JETman]

I'm going to hazard a guess here and say that when the full facts are known, the situation will be found to be even worse that we think--and it is utterly horrible now. I'm primarily thinking about the abortive prior police investigation; would not be surprised to learn of influence peddling, obstruction of justice, and suppression of evidence to save "JoePa", the football program, and the image of Penn State. Something went wrong there. Frankly, they are still trying to save JoePa's ass. I suspect that the decision not to indict him is as much political as evidentiary.

I also agree with JetMan. College football and b-ball are massively corrupt, and need thorough reform. Unfortunately, chances of that happening widely are slim to none: too much money, too little respect for higher education, to generate real reform.

Thank you. It's good to know that we're not all brain dead here. Our dear Mr. Mature cannot see the forest through the trees when it involves his professional baseball players, but nitpicks about inconsequential points of fact when it comes to this scandal. All is ok as long as he's winning World Series'.

Let me tell a story if I may. My younger sister attended U of MD with a certain blowhard quarterback from Long Island by the name of Norman Esiason. This idiot was granted godlike status around campus. He hit on and forced himself upon women more often than he changed his underwear. He came on rather strongly with my sister. She turned him down. He couldn't believe that someone would dare to do this. She ended up communicating to him that if he continued to harass her, she would proceed to cut his little dick off with a pair of tweezers. Everyone knew that this guy was an asshole of the highest order -- sort of like the model used by a certain QB of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Anyway, cut forward a few years and little Norman gets married and has a kid with cystic fibrosis. Since he now suffers a personal setback, he starts a foundation, and is now seen as a saint. See how everything works out in the end??? Hypocrisy at its finest.

If this is not the bigger issue here (of which the Penn State quagmire is an unfortunate extension), I don't know what is.

[Tim McG]

What perplexes me is how anyone could even suggest Joe Paterno had anything to do with the cover-up.

By law, he reported the incident to his superiors. By law, it is up to them to pursue the issue including contacting authorities. Yet there are those in the media who insist upon saying he needed to do more. What more can he do?

1)He could make sure that Sanduasky gets nowhere near the campus and has no association with the school

2) He could CALL THE COPS- this is a very serious crime.

3)He could ask the AD, college President, etc what happened to the allegations against Sandusky

4) He could contact the graduate assistant and see what happened as a result of the allegations

5) Threaten to go public on Sandusky if he doesn't come clean

PATERNO DID NONE OF THE ABOVE

Sure, he may have done the technical minimum required of him as an employee at Penn State, but he has an obligation as a human being, a father, an adult responsible for young people entrusted to his care to do much more. He failed in that miserably, probably to save face for the college.

With all due respect, I don't think you understand how the chain of command works relative to the mandatory reporting of child abuse. Those of us charged with this required duty can only do so much.

Paterno did all that he could. Fact is, he cannot hire and fire. He has no legal authority over anyone on or, in this case, off his staff. "Going public" as you say and effectively going over the heads of his superiors can be grounds for termination...his. So I really do not think you realize how the system works in cases such as these.

Besides, how do we know what was said or discussed or asked by Paterno?

Personally, this sounds more like media scapegoating to me. Or worse, creating controversy where there is none just to get some "drama" for their news agency to print.

Either way, Joe Paterno takes the groundless hit. And that is just plain wrong.

Edited November 9, 2011 by GoodSpeak

[seeline]

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense at all.

I think you misunderstand something: failure to report child abuse (of any kind) is, in itself, a crime. Paterno's good guy image just went down the toilet because of his complete moral and ethical FAIL on this.

But, as JETman and Leeway have said, this is only the beginning of what will (imo) prove to be a far uglier - and more pervasive - problem. I am certain that Sandusky's "charity," The Second Mile, is going to be the subject of a great deal of scrutiny and attention,

if only that had been true from 1977 on (when he started it). His known victims were primarily Second Mile kids.

Saying "I reported it to my superiors" sounds suspiciously like "I was just following orders." [cue cilip of Pilate washing his hands]

Edited November 9, 2011 by seeline

[Big Wheel]

Paterno did all that he could. Fact is, he cannot hire and fire. He has no legal authority over anyone on or, in this case, off his staff. "Going public" as you say and effectively going over the heads of his superiors can be grounds for termination...his. So I really do not think you understand how the system works in cases such as these.

Are you kidding? It would be one thing to hold a big press conference and declare Sandusky a pederast, but I find it extremely hard to believe that there are no legal protections for those who bypass their institution's chain of command to report this kind of crime directly to the police. Paterno not only did nothing once it was clear the administration had decided to sweep the whole Sandusky thing under the rug, he appears to be saying Mike McQueary lied to the grand jury about what McQueary specifically told Paterno.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Big Wheel