Late Posted November 4, 2011 Report Posted November 4, 2011 With Thad Jones, Jim Hall, Dick Katz, and Ron Carter. Looks interesting on paper. Does anyone have this disc? Or have you heard the music? Curious to know if it's recommended. Quote
jazzbo Posted November 4, 2011 Report Posted November 4, 2011 Very recommended if you are a Merrill fan. Quote
jazzbo Posted November 4, 2011 Report Posted November 4, 2011 This however is the best way to go: http://www.mosaicrecords.com/discography.asp?number=1019&price=$15.00&copies=1%20CD Quote
JSngry Posted November 4, 2011 Report Posted November 4, 2011 Agreed. Her version of "Lonely Woman" is...spooky! Quote
jazztrain Posted November 4, 2011 Report Posted November 4, 2011 With Thad Jones, Jim Hall, Dick Katz, and Ron Carter. Looks interesting on paper. Does anyone have this disc? Or have you heard the music? Curious to know if it's recommended. Yes (the Mosaic issue that replaced a copy of the Milestone LP). Yes Highly recommended. Memorable album. Quote
Shawn Posted November 4, 2011 Report Posted November 4, 2011 Both of these 60s albums with Katz (The Feeling Is Mutual is the other) are AMAZING and as far as I'm concerned should be in any jazz collection, fantastic performances! Quote
mikeweil Posted November 4, 2011 Report Posted November 4, 2011 Is there any booklet note in the Mosaic of A Shade of Difference about the version of Lonely Woman? Merrill replaced her vocal part at the occasion of the Landmark LP reissue - does the Mosaic reissue the Milestone version? I wonder if Cuscuna was aware of that ... Quote
jeffcrom Posted November 4, 2011 Report Posted November 4, 2011 Along with Dream of You, A Shade of Difference is the Helen Merrill album I'd take to a desert island - and that's saying something, because several of her others have Steve Lacy on them. Quote
JSngry Posted November 4, 2011 Report Posted November 4, 2011 Is there any booklet note in the Mosaic of A Shade of Difference about the version of Lonely Woman? Merrill replaced her vocal part at the occasion of the Landmark LP reissue - does the Mosaic reissue the Milestone version? I wonder if Cuscuna was aware of that ... I did not know that...that kinda sucks... Quote
king ubu Posted November 4, 2011 Report Posted November 4, 2011 Is there any booklet note in the Mosaic of A Shade of Difference about the version of Lonely Woman? Merrill replaced her vocal part at the occasion of the Landmark LP reissue - does the Mosaic reissue the Milestone version? I wonder if Cuscuna was aware of that ... I did not know that...that kinda sucks... Neither did I. First, though: these two Merrill/Katz albums rank among the very finest of all vocal jazz! I've got the two Gitanes CDs (what version of "Lonely Woman" was used there?) and since there've been various comments on the sound of the Mosaic 2-on-1 being very low-par, I never felt any urge to replace them (they sound fine to my lacking ears... guess the Mosaic would, too...) Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted November 4, 2011 Report Posted November 4, 2011 The Merrill discs were "vanity" projects and she controls the masters. I would bet the Mosaic reflects the Landmark issue. Quote
king ubu Posted November 4, 2011 Report Posted November 4, 2011 The Merrill discs were "vanity" projects and she controls the masters. I would bet the Mosaic reflects the Landmark issue. And I guess the same goes for the Gitanes? Quote
brownie Posted November 5, 2011 Report Posted November 5, 2011 The Merrill discs were "vanity" projects and she controls the masters. I would bet the Mosaic reflects the Landmark issue. And I guess the same goes for the Gitanes? Most probably. I don't have the Mosaic release or the Milestone original but I have the Landmark LP and the Gitanes CD. Both have the same version of 'Lonely Woman' but something must have happened when the Gitanes was under production. All the tracks lengths are exactly the same except the Gitanes CD lists 'Lonely Woman' as 3m34s but it runs for 3m49s as on the Landmark LP! Presume the shorter 'Lonely Woman' was on the original Milestone issue only! Dick Katz or Orin Keepnews who produced the session might know... Quote
king ubu Posted November 5, 2011 Report Posted November 5, 2011 Well, Dick Katz has died a while ago... Chuck, what does "<vanity> project" mean in this context? Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted November 5, 2011 Report Posted November 5, 2011 It means she paid for the session and owns the rights. Quote
Noj Posted November 5, 2011 Report Posted November 5, 2011 Agreed. Her version of "Lonely Woman" is...spooky! Had to hear it after that description. Whoa! I'd have guessed the Horace Silver song before the Ornette Coleman. Quote
Larry Kart Posted November 5, 2011 Report Posted November 5, 2011 Merrill's appeal escapes me. Timewise, she seems hapless to me -- not that in the sense that she makes mistakes, but there's very little sense of air around, or propulsion within, her phrases. Place her alongside, say, Chris Connor -- who is arguably somewhat comparable in approach and sensibility -- and to me there's no comparison. Merrill sounds so studied. Quote
JSngry Posted November 5, 2011 Report Posted November 5, 2011 For me, it's about her sound, period. Just her sound and how it occupies its space, what it lets in and what it keeps out. It's very pleasing to me how it does those that. Don't know that I could be more specific than that, or that I'd want to. Having said that, some of her things are just too morose for my taste. Haven't dwelt on those long enough to decide whether that's on her, her backing, or the recording, or all of the above. As ((rightfully) well-regarded as Dream Of You is, though, I prefer this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv3qIZ03mBIOk, I can get more specific. I like how she handles her vowels. But then again, that's what I like about any singer of this ilk that I like. Quote
JSngry Posted November 5, 2011 Report Posted November 5, 2011 Ok, let's talk about timing... Sounds fine to me... Quote
AllenLowe Posted November 5, 2011 Report Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) Larry, say it ain't so - or listen to the stuff with Clifford Brown - though your problems with her may be related to my theory that engineers don't know how to record her - one must use a condenser mic on a voice like that, and it always sounds like they're using ribbons - and, believe me, that can make a BIG difference (unless it's an RCA 77) - Edited November 5, 2011 by AllenLowe Quote
Larry Kart Posted November 5, 2011 Report Posted November 5, 2011 Jim -- Can't find a clip of Connor singing the same song, but jeez, Merrill's notes just hang there, almost static, while Connor's at a similar tempo really flow: Merrill has "cabaret singer" time, and even by those standards she's no Jeri Southern or Audrey Morris. to name two. Quote
JSngry Posted November 5, 2011 Report Posted November 5, 2011 Can't agree with any of that. sorry. Then again, I don't really care for any of those singers you mention, especially Southern. Quote
Larry Kart Posted November 5, 2011 Report Posted November 5, 2011 What? You don't dig Chris Connor? Ah, well... Audrey Morris: Quote
JSngry Posted November 5, 2011 Report Posted November 5, 2011 I like them well enough, but they don't get to me too much. Merrill, otoh, there's a Tantric quality to her singing that really pulls me in and keeps me in (no pun intended...). Quote
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