John Gilmore

[Late]

Some good discussion here on Gilmore, courtesy of AAJ. I know others here are fans, too.

Favorite appearances, solos?

[mikeweil]

There were two double LPs by a Sun Ra Quartet on the Italian Horo label, with trumpeter Michael Ray, drummer Luqman Ali, Sun Ra on electric piano or organ throughout, and Gilmore, that have some of my favourite Gilmore.

The Pete LaRoca session on Douglas is next, I really blame myself for not getting this on 32Jazz as long as it was available.

Edited January 15, 2004 by mikeweil

[king ubu]

The Pete LaRoca session on Douglas is next, I really blame myself for not getting this on 32Jazz as long as it was avaialble.

Can't you still find one somewhere on the net?

Otherwise... (get the drift)

I don't know many things Gilmore did, as I have not yet really entered the Sun Ra universe. I like the BN album with Jordan, Gilmore's showing on that Hill date, and really love said LaRoca album (Corea notwithstanding...).

He's got a fairly individual sound, judging from what I heard, and I rather like it.

Is there much around of him without Ra?

ubu

[mikeweil]

Jordan/Gilmore (Blue Note)

LaRoca (Douglas)

Andrew Hill (Blue Note)

McCoy Tyner, Today & Tomorrow (Impulse, 3 tracks)

Elmo Hope, Hope from Rikers Island (Chiaroscuro)

anything else (outside of Sun Ra)?

[jazzbo]

An official and unofficial album or so with Art Blakey and the Messengers. . . .

The Impulse lp with Freddie Hubbard . . . .

[brownie]

Couple additional John Gilmore appearances as sideman:

Art Blakey 'S' Make It' on Limelight,

Phil Upchurch 'Feelin' Blue' on Milestone.

Gilmore also made an European tour in the mid-sixties with Art Blakey. I've got a video somewhere of Lee Morgan and John Gilmore and the Messengers playing at a concert in England.

And John Gilmore co-led an album with Dizzy Reece in Paris in 1970 for the Futura label. The album was titled 'From In To Out'. Futura reissued a number of albums on CD but not that one.

[Late]

I thought Gilmore also briefly played with Mingus, c. 1965, the year he took a sabbatical from Ra's band. I think that's Gilmore on tenor, along with Charles McPherson and Lonnie Hilyer on the bandstand, in some of the live footage in the Mingus, 1968 documentary.

How is that Blakey Limelight record (S'Make It)? I've thought about picking that one up from time to time.

[brownie]

How is that Blakey Limelight record (S'Make It)? I've thought about picking that one up from time to time.

I have the original mono LP and those Limelight albums were plain beautiful objects. One of the first label to have foldout covers with strong original designs.

The Messengers do great on the album. Lee Morgan and Curtis Fuller have most of the solo space and they are just fine. John Gilmore solos on only three sides and shows a Messenger inclination. I hear some Stanley Turrentine in his playing. Nothing wrong with that as far as I am concerned.

Another Gilmore sideman appearance that I missed in my previous post:

Paul Bley 'Turning Point' on Improvising Artists.

[DavidM]

The LaRoca Douglas disc has been available recently from Dusty Grooves. I really enjoy Gilmore's playing on this one.

[couw]

Gilmore also made an European tour in the mid-sixties with Art Blakey. I've got a video somewhere of Lee Morgan and John Gilmore and the Messengers playing at a concert in England.

click for a snippet of that video

[JSngry]

Another Gilmore sideman appearance that I missed in my previous post:

Paul Bley 'Turning Point' on Improvising Artists.

Oh my God, YES!

"Ida Lupino" in particular is one of things of which it does not get better than.

[JohnS]

I saw the Messengers with Gilmore in the UK. My memory of the concert is a bit hazy. Was it John Hicks and Jymie Merritt?

[fent99]

I've never heard the IAI Turning Point but have a Savoy issue with some (all?)of the same material. Its truly fantastic and I'd agree that Ida Lupino is magnificent. (sure there is an alternate on my savoy version. )

Anyone confirm whether this is all the same material?

The Pete LaRoca I'd like to find also and still have it on a cassette taped from an LP which called it Love Planet by Chick Corea...

[JSngry]

The Savoy has more than the IAI, at least in LP versions. The IAI includes two trio tracks w/o Gilmore (and different bassist/drummer) from a later date, and omits a few of the earlier tunes to do so. But the IAI has been out on CD (I think) and the Savoy hasn't.

If you have the Savoy issuse, hold on to it!

[Vincent, Paris]

I saw the Messengers with Gilmore in the UK. My memory of the concert is a bit hazy. Was it John Hicks and Jymie Merritt?

No, John Hicks and Victor Sproles.

[Nate Dorward]

Getting back to his appearances with Sun Ra--one Gilmore item that should not be overlooked, despite some obvious demerits, is the recent UMS/Atavistic issue Music from Tomorrow's World. It's recordings of Ra's band from 1960-61; the sound quality on the last 40 minutes is diabolical, even by the lo-fi standards of the Ra catalogue, & Gilmore isn't featured much on that session, but the first session is an acceptably recorded live date of about 30 minutes' duration with some utterly amazing Gilmore soloing--"How High the Moon" in particular is quite brilliant, performed at a frighteningly fast tempo, & there's also many other great solos ("It Ain't Necessarily So" is sublime too). Anyway, it's worth getting the disc simply for the first date.

[fasstrack]

Yes, he was an interesting, gutsy player. I liked what I heard. He seemed not bothered to be himself----a relatively rare attribute in art (and life) despite lip service to the contrary.

Do people here also know Pat Patrick's playing? He was good, too. Mostly known for bari, but a solid tenor player----good sound and swing. Chicago guy, too, I think.

I ran into Pat in the early 80s at Barry Harris's Jazz Cultural Theater. We became friendly. Great guy. He hit on me to work a duo gig, then ran into Eddie Diehl and used him instead. That was cool, Eddie's a great player---and a mentor of mine at the time ('82 or thereabouts). I wound up sitting in with them a bunch on that gig on the Upper Left Side.

Pat left us way too early. Sorry to get off topic, but I wanted too remind people about him. And it's not too off topic, since he and Gilmore were section mates with Ra.

[relyles]

Recently I have been in a John Gilmore mood. I started by listening to Blakey's Smake It. Enjoyable disc, but not necessarily something to get for Gilmore since he is not featured often. This past week I have been listening to the three Sun Ra albums on Horo previously mentioned, Unity, New Steps and starting today Other Voices, Other Blues. All three are excellent places to hear Gilmore stretch out, in particular the two small group sessions. I also listened to the Atavistic, Music from Tomorrow's World. I agree that there is some exceptional music, but the rough sound throughout made it a little difficult for me.

Edited March 5, 2004 by relyles

[DrJ]

For sideman gigs, I DO very much enjoy his playing with Andrew Hill on ANDREW. The LaRoca disc is a beauty too, Gilmore's all over that.

[ceddy10165]

all of the Gilmore appearances outside of the Arkestra are worthwhile.

It is a true shame he did not record more outside the Arkestra, and a bigger shame that all of the recordings he did make are not reissued on CD.

I feel that "Turkish Women" and "Blowin' in from Chicago" are the 2 strongest, and The Upchurch LP is to be avoided if you're looking to hear Gilmore and Patrick.

Nice to see Pat singled out in this thread. He is a very overlooked player. He had a unique tone, sense of phrasing, and dynamics.

[Late]

Been listening to a lot of Ra lately. Three incredible Gilmore solos that are worth playing back to back for comparison are on:

• "Cosmic Chaos" (Heliocentric Worlds, Vol. 2)

• "Sketch" (Other Planes of There)

• "Thoughts Under a Dark Blue Light" (Cymbals)

... on the latter, you can actually hear what "speaking in tongues" is all about. One of the great Gilmore solos for all time.

[brownie]

Been listening to a lot of Ra lately. Three incredible Gilmore solos that are worth playing back to back for comparison are on:

• "Cosmic Chaos" (Heliocentric Worlds, Vol. 2)

• "Sketch" (Other Planes of There)

• "Thoughts Under a Dark Blue Light" (Cymbals)

... on the latter, you can actually hear what "speaking in tongues" is all about. One of the great Gilmore solos for all time.

Is 'Cymbals' out? Thought this was unissued.

Keen to hear that Gilmore solo!

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Cymbals is part of a 2-CD set on Evidence (ECD 22217-2) titled The Great Lost Sun Ra Albums. Issued in 2000. The other disc is Crystal Spears.

Mike

[brownie]

Cymbals is part of a 2-CD set on Evidence (ECD 22217-2) titled The Great Lost Sun Ra Albums. Issued in 2000. The other disc is Crystal Spears.

Mike

Mike, thanks for filling me in!

[Late]

Three incredible Gilmore solos that are worth playing back to back for comparison are on:

• "Cosmic Chaos" (Heliocentric Worlds, Vol. 2)

• "Sketch" (Other Planes of There)

• "Thoughts Under a Dark Blue Light" (Cymbals)

... on the latter, you can actually hear what "speaking in tongues" is all about. One of the great Gilmore solos for all time.

Was going to make a post about Gilmore's solo on "Thoughts Under a Dark Blue Light," did a search first, and discovered I already had.

A great solo. Check it out if you can.