Chick Webb Mosaic Set announced

[Clunky]

I'll wait until we hear regarding the sound of the set. It's unlikely to be terrible but sadly it just doesn't sit well having 25% of your expensive new Mosaic set ripped from CD sources.

[ejp626]

I'll wait until we hear regarding the sound of the set. It's unlikely to be terrible but sadly it just doesn't sit well having 25% of your expensive new Mosaic set ripped from CD sources.

I wasn't really in the market for this set in the first place, and I can guarantee you I am not interested in it now.

Mosaic has to hope more people are in that other camp of those who buy Mosaics mostly because they buy all Mosaics to support Mosaic...

[jazzbo]

My guess is that a lot of work was done preliminarily to this set before it became clear that metal parts would not be available and it was decided to move forward with the set to maximize the value of the time already put in.

To be honest those cds that are mentioned as sources that I have heard sound pretty good to me. With a bit of tweaking they will probably sound even better and "homogenized" to the mastering of the other tracks from varied source material. These people know what they're doing and I haven't adopted a doom and gloom attitude about this set. I pre-ordered it, in part because my parents are Ella fans and not really familiar with the early material and it will be fun to share listening to this set with them.

[Chuck Nessa]

I think this information was handled clumsily by Mosaic. Back in the beginning of cds and beyond, Uni/MCA used Steven Lasker for the digital transfers. He had done wonderful work. I would hope/expect the Mosaic versions to be first class.

I hate to see some sonic paranoia spoiling the issue of a major corrective release.

[Blue Train]

Chuck:

As I said, I already have access to everything (including the CDs) of everything in this set. If I am going to spend $136+....I don't want what a certain label(s) in Europe does with Mosaic sets.

Anyway, it just means I can use that $136+ for other things like future Nessa releases.

I think this information was handled clumsily by Mosaic. Back in the beginning of cds and beyond, Uni/MCA used Steven Lasker for the digital transfers. He had done wonderful work. I would hope/expect the Mosaic versions to be first class.

I hate to see some sonic paranoia spoiling the issue of a major corrective release.

[Chuck Nessa]

You missed something in my message which some audiophiles might have caught. Transfers and mastering are not the same thing. I doubt 2013 digital transfers would be "better" than Lasker's transfers but the mastering could/would be different.

OTOH, buy my stuff.

[J.A.W.]

You missed something in my message which some audiophiles might have caught. Transfers and mastering are not the same thing. I doubt 2013 digital transfers would be "better" than Lasker's transfers but the mastering could/would be different.

OTOH, buy my stuff.

This is what they're saying on their website:

we have transferred mint 78s, vinyl test pressings from the John R.T. Davies Collection and Decca CDs from the 1990s that utilized metal mothers transferred by Steven Lasker and restored by Erick Labson

I'm not sure how to read this; as I understand it they transferred those Decca CDs including the restoration work done by Mr Labson, i.e. including the noise reduction he applied, which, if I remember correctly, was explicitly mentioned in the booklet that came with the CD I had, and possibly including his mastering, which I did not like very much. Please correct me if my interpretation is wrong.

[edited to correct an error]

Edited September 24, 2013 by J.A.W.

[Blue Train]

Chuck:


1. I got your post, I am just not interested in spending that kind of money for what they're doing.

2. Don't worry....Nessa records might be the top per quality/quantity label that I know. That was brought to my attention with your recent Nessa records FB post. I either have it, or have access to it through Pops. I didn't even realize Ben Webster, Eddie Johnson, or Lucky Thompson recorded for you. I am going to have to buy those.


P.S. My youngest sister (she is only 6) likes parts of Snurdy McGurdy and Her Dancin' Shoes. Some of it she gets all "confuseded" what is going on and will make a "no likey" face. Hey, she's 6! She will even get up and dance to parts of it. I am sure you can guess what parts. So, you might have a future Nessa Records buyer in standby...

P.P.S. If I might make a suggestion. You need to update the Nessa records official page.

http://www.nessarecords.com/catalog/

Sorry to everyone else for hijacking the thread.

You missed something in my message which some audiophiles might have caught. Transfers and mastering are not the same thing. I doubt 2013 digital transfers would be "better" than Lasker's transfers but the mastering could/would be different.

OTOH, buy my stuff.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Blue Train

[king ubu]

Agree with Chuck .... but have gone through the same line of thought J.A.W. provides. The statement seems indeed to suggest they used the CD masterings, not just the underlying transfers.

[David Ayers]

Well, Mosaic are known first for their editorial concept and only second for their often good sound, but they are not strictly an audiophile company. There are other 30s Mosaic sets with more authentic sound for those who want to be as close as possible to the source, although even the best sets from that point of view have a few clunkers that out of necessity came from a secondary/tertiary source. Unfortunately the limits of the less well-sourced material tend to be obvious, but we are where we are. This set will sell because it is Ella. Who is in, is in, and who not, not.

[king ubu]

not, not? sure about that coma?

[J.A.W.]

I asked Scott about all this and he confirmed that they used some tracks from those Decca CDs. He also said that waiting for the metal parts to become available would probably have taken several years.

[jazzbo]

The box set is shipping.

[SwingItTrev]

Anyone received their set yet? Thoughts?

[jazzbo]

Got my set in last night. Beautiful, beefy booklet (26 pages of text or so) and I really like the cover image.

Listening to the last two discs on my Dad's stereo and it sounds very nice. Will be some time before I can do some critical listening in my own system as I'm on full time duty here looking after my parents. I'll say this though: I've listened through tracks sourced from previous cds and those not and there was nothing on this system to call attention to one track rather than another sonically. They all sound nicely balanced and swingin'.

Edited October 16, 2013 by jazzbo

[king ubu]

Got to get this, too, eventually!

Want the Lunceford, too, but it's on backorder for a while (anywhen 2014, not very precise).

[thirdtry]

Hi. I just wanted to let everyone here know about a potential problem with the Chick Webb Mosaic set.

The booklet that came with mine was botched and missing about 20 pages. The first 11 pages are fine but then it repeats a few pages and then skips all over the place. All mixed up.

I called Mosaic and they're aware of the problem and it's only affecting a handful of sets. They're sending me out a new booklet right away.

I urge everyone here to check out their booklet carefully and contact Mosaic if there's any problems.

[tranemonk]

Hi. I just wanted to let everyone here know about a potential problem with the Chick Webb Mosaic set.

The booklet that came with mine was botched and missing about 20 pages. The first 11 pages are fine but then it repeats a few pages and then skips all over the place. All mixed up.

I called Mosaic and they're aware of the problem and it's only affecting a handful of sets. They're sending me out a new booklet right away.

I urge everyone here to check out their booklet carefully and contact Mosaic if there's any problems.

Thanks.. I'll check mine when I get home... Good to know

[king ubu]

I've had one booklet were a page (or rather, 4 pages) were missing, and one where a page had a corner cut off (no text missing, just the area of the page number and maybe the line they often have at the bottom of the text just on top of the page number) ... I always flip through them when I get the boxes, just checking page numbers and having a quick look). Obviously it's not a problem at all to get a replacement with Mosaic!

Any other reports regarding sound - comparisons of CD sourced and other tracks?

[SwingItTrev]

I just received my set and so far I'm pretty happy with it. I've only heard a few tracks and haven't done an A/B comparison yet, but I like what I'm hearing. There's a tiny bit of distortion on the high notes, which seems to be typical with these sets, but otherwise the detail is good. I'll report more when I've listened to it all more thoroughly.

[SwingItTrev]

Just a quick follow-up mini review of the Ella/Webb set:

I've managed to do a little bit of A/B listening and it's interesting stuff. For most tracks this Mosaic set has better audio quality than other Ella/Webb CDs out there. Because of the large variety of source material (including other CD releases) the quality does vary subtly between tracks. It's mostly very good. In my opinion the tracks on here sound better than on the John R. T. Davies remastered Strictly Jive set from HEP. I prefer some tracks ("Dipsy Doodle" for example) on the GRP Decca "Early Years" sets - I suspect because they had access to metal parts back when they were made. They are generally slightly on the "bright" side, but I'm okay with that. As with all Mosaic releases, they have been pitch-corrected, so there were some surprises for me - such as "Lindy Hoppers Delight" coming in slower than before at 188bpm.

For those not familiar with the material, the set has a large number of vocal tracks. Many of of them are novelty songs or have twee lyrics. Chick Webb had his sights firmly set on mainstream commercial success when he went into the studio, and that stuff was in. But overall, recommended!

Edited November 11, 2013 by SwingItTrev

[neveronfriday]

Has anyone had/will anyone have a chance to compare this set to the 2011 (I think it was) Amazon France "Complete Masters"?
I know they were sourced from "lesser" quality material but I've heard the complete set several times and am quite happy with it.

Somehow I get the feeling that this Mosaic set is not going to be such a major improvement (for me) to justify the cost + EU import (punitive) tariff.

I'd rather spend those $160 and more on other material this time.

P.S.: I think it was quite legitimate for Mosaic to source some of the material from available CDs. This is important music and if I understood correctly, it would have taken many more years to get hold of the metal masters? Jeez, some of us old fogeys will be dead and gone by then.

Edited November 11, 2013 by neveronfriday

[SwingItTrev]

Has anyone had/will anyone have a chance to compare this set to the 2011 (I think it was) Amazon France "Complete Masters"?

I know they were sourced from "lesser" quality material but I've heard the complete set several times and am quite happy with it.

The Mosaic set uses that Complete Masters set for some of its source material, so It must be pretty decent.

[Clunky]

Just a quick follow-up mini review of the Ella/Webb set:

I've managed to do a little bit of A/B listening and it's interesting stuff. For most tracks this Mosaic set has better audio quality than other Ella/Webb CDs out there. Because of the large variety of source material (including other CD releases) the quality does vary subtly between tracks. It's mostly very good. In my opinion the tracks on here sound better than on the John R. T. Davies remastered Strictly Jive set from HEP. I prefer some tracks ("Dipsy Doodle" for example) on the GRP Decca "Early Years" sets - I suspect because they had access to metal parts back when they were made. They are generally slightly on the "bright" side, but I'm okay with that. As with all Mosaic releases, they have been pitch-corrected, so there were some surprises for me - such as "Lindy Hoppers Delight" coming in slower than before at 188bpm.

For those not familiar with the material, the set has a large number of vocal tracks. Many of of them are novelty songs or have twee lyrics. Chick Webb had his sights firmly set on mainstream commercial success when he went into the studio, and that stuff was in. But overall, recommended!

I'd pretty much agree with your comments. Tracks sourced from CD sound a little flatter but the set has very fine sound overall. I'm at a loss to explain why they sourced so many tracks from CDs rather than mint 78s ( given that the metal parts were out of reach). My best guess is that this was probably a last minute decision given that surely many of these must have been potentially available as 78s from collectors . The superiority of the newer transfers does underline how much the art of getting good transfers has progressed over the past decade.

[SwingItTrev]

The superiority of the newer transfers does underline how much the art of getting good transfers has progressed over the past decade.

And there could well be a revolution in this area in the near future. I read somewhere that they are experimenting with 3D scans of vinyl that allow them to extract the recording without even touching the surface of the record.