Pony Poindexter, any fans?

[mikeweil]

This video should have been recorded at the same occasion as the one with Ted Curson, Booker Ervin, and Nathan Davis posted above. My guess it was late in May, 1966, when I compare the timelines of all musicians involved. Curson, Ervin, Woode, and Bateman had recorded the "Urge" LP in the Netherlands earlier that month. Drew was back in Copenhagen by June. Strange that Poindexter mentions that TV date only in passing - but his years in Europe from arriving on August 22, 1964 were rather busy.

[AllenLowe]

there is an amazing live cd with Rene Thomas from '64 at the Bluenote which I just ordered. Pony is my favorite kind of alto player - thick, dense tone, lotta chords, very mobile but incredibly soulful.

[mikeweil]

I hope you ordered the Gambit version, which has longer edits. A little more than one minute more, mostly end themes, which were edited off on the first release on Royal Jazz. This was Poindexter's gig, one of the first after he had arrived in Europe. René Thomas plays his ass off on this one. 

[mikeweil]

Pulled some old photo albums - I saw and heard Poindexter play in Frankfurt on August 28, 1975 -  43 years ago, almost to the day. If I can pull them photos out without damaging them I will scan and post some. 

Edited September 1, 2018 by mikeweil

[hgweber]

i met pony in the late 80s when he was visiting germany for the last time and stayed with a good friend of mine. we drove him to several concerts in the mannheim area where he put up a little stand to sell his book. i still have the copy he gave me, with "to bill cosby" whitened out and my name over it, lol. i remember going backstage with him in mannheim to greet art blakey. for some reason woody shaw was also there, suddenly standing in front of me, holding out his hand and introducing himself.

i remember that he didn't talk much and that he seemed not to be in good shape. he did like to smoke the green. i think he died a few months later. i have a tape somewhere with a gig he did on an earlier visit, no sax, just singing, with my buddy on piano and a local rhythm section, iirc. i could find it if it's of any interest.

 

i'd love to see the photos from frankfurt. any idea who was playing with pony?

 

and +1 to the recordings with rene thomas. 

[mikeweil]

The Frankfurt gig at the Palmengarten concert series was with Rolf Lüttgens (piano), Günther Hermes (bass guitar, the model Paul MCartney used to play, of all things), and Ralf Hübner (drums). Pony was in good form and shape that day. 

If you can find that tape and digitalize it, that would be nice. If you remember the date and personnel I can incllude it in the discography.

[mikeweil]

Received a copy of Alto Summit yesterday - having avoided this one over all the years. Now I know my instinct was right - not all of Joachim Berendt's Summit ideas worked well. This time I think the rhythm section - Steve Kuhn, Palle Danielsson, and Jon Christensen - was not ideal. Kuhn - a player I never seem to like - is too much in his own world of chord substitutions, and the other two are unable to groove in a more traditional manner that would have made the saxists feel more comfortable. If you listen to how great Pony had played in front of Fritz Pauer, Jimmy Woode, and Joe Nay in Frankfurt where they recorded the album with Annie Ross for MPS, you will get the idea. 

This is the only album that Poindexter does not mention in his memoirs, which is rather strange - the discography at the end of the book mentioning it was compiled by someone else. Maybe he was dissatisfied with the results. He chose "Blue and Sentimental" for his ballad feature, but sounds uneasy in comparison to his version on "Pony Poindexter Plays the Big Ones". They end the ballad medley in some freewheelin' collective improvisation that sounds totally chaotic - I wonder why they didn't do another take of this one. The saxists all feel fine rubbing shoulders - with a more sympathetic rhythm section this could have been really great. Poindexter has good words to say about all of them in his memoirs - he had encountered them at different points in his career, but must have been delighted to meet  them all together again at once. 

Edited September 14, 2018 by mikeweil

[JSngry]

  On 9/14/2018 at 2:47 PM, mikeweil said:

Received a copy of Alto Summit yesterday - having avoided this one over all the years. Now I know my instinct was right - not all of Joachim Berendt's Summit ideas worked well. This time I think the rhythm section - Steve Kuhn, Palle Danielsson, and Jon Christensen - was not ideal. Kuhn - a player I never seem to like - is too much in his own world of chord substitutions, and the other two are unable to groove in a more traditional manner that would have made the saxists feel more comfortable. If you listen to how great Pony had played in front of Fritz Pauer, Jimmy Woode, and Joe Nay in Frankfurt where they recorded the album with Annie Ross for MPS, you will get the idea. 

This is the only album that Poindexter does not mention in his memoirs, which is rather strange - the discography at the end of the book mentioning it was compiled by someone else. Maybe he was dissatisfied with the results. He chose "Blue and Sentimental" for his ballad feature, but sounds uneasy in comparison to his version on "Pony Poindexter Plays the Big Ones". They end the ballad medley in some freewheelin' collective improvisation that sounds totally chaotic - I wonder why they didn't do another take of this one. The saxists all feel fine rubbing shoulders - with a more sympathetic rhythm section this could have been really great. Poindexter has good words to say about all of them in his memoirs - he had encountered them at different points in his career, but must have been delighted to meet  them all together again at once. 

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I long felt cold about that record (got it ca. 1972, or whenever BASF released it here), but have come to warm to it - some, and then mostly for Lee's playing. I agree that Pony is not heard to advantage on any of the record. It is not what one would hope for, although the sound of a sax section of four altos presents some arresting moments.

The chaos at the end of the ballad medley is caused by each hornman taking a chorus of their own feature number all at the same time. An idea that sounds better on paper than in actuality, at least here. Mingus could do shit like that and make it work, but Mingus ain't here.

[mikeweil]

  On 9/14/2018 at 4:59 PM, JSngry said:

The chaos at the end of the ballad medley is caused by each hornman taking a chorus of their own feature number all at the same time. An idea that sounds better on paper than in actuality, at least here. Mingus could do shit like that and make it work, but Mingus ain't here.

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Yeah, that's what it sounds like. Why in all the world didn't they notice?

Lee indeed sounds very good here, and his sound is a bit brighter than I was familiar with from other recordings. MPS tends to make it sound rather bright, but that does not account for all of it, methinks. He really took that challenge and responded with more edge in his playing. 

As a section they sound nice - no wonder with their common Charlie Parker heritage. They should have got a rhythm section of Parker alumni and record a Bird tribute!

[mikeweil]

The complete TV broadcast of 44 minutes of the group with Ted Curson, Booker Ervin, Pony Poindexter etc. can be viewed here:

https://www.rtbf.be/auvio/detail_jazz-pour-tous-ted-curson-pony-poindexter-booker-ervin-nathan-davis-kenny-drew-jimmy-woode-edgar-bateman?id=2667142

A simple registration via facebook or other is required.

Edited April 13, 2021 by mikeweil

[Hardbopjazz]

Nice. Thanks for sharing this.

[clifford_thornton]

wonderful!

[romualdo]

what a find!!! Just watched the complete performance - film/video quality is superb

what a lineup - Curson, Nathan Davis (great to see him but only flute), Pony, Booker (Ervin), Drew, Woode & Bateman

[mikeweil]

  On 4/13/2021 at 11:50 PM, romualdo said:

Nathan Davis (great to see him but only flute)

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The same Website features a live recording of a Jazz Messengers concert with Freddie Hubbard, Nathan Davis, and Jaki Byard! Use their search function.

[BillF]

I recall a girl student of mine in the late 1960s saying, "You like jazz, don't you? Have you heard of a musician called Pony Poindexter? I met him on my holiday in Spain."

[romualdo]

  On 4/14/2021 at 7:42 AM, mikeweil said:

The same Website features a live recording of a Jazz Messengers concert with Freddie Hubbard, Nathan Davis, and Jaki Byard! Use their search function.

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I have that same live recording (Paris) on a Jazz Icons DVD (4th box set) - just watched both versions & they are identical. The DVD lists the recording date as Nov 3, 1965 while the RTBF site uses the date of March 16, 1968. I'd say the 65 date is correct - also supported by the Lord Discography that lists the recent French Sam label release of the same concert on a LP only (Art Blakey & The New Jazzmen - Paris '65) set using the Nov 65 date.

Edited April 14, 2021 by romualdo

[Late]

 

[Late]

Pony with Lambert, Hendricks & Bavan:

Melba's Blues (at 15:10)

Bam. Man, Bavan isn't given enough credit for her role in that group.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Late
Yolande Bavan

[mjzee]

  On 4/29/2021 at 3:24 PM, Late said:

Pony with Lambert, Hendricks & Bavan:

Melba's Blues (at 15:10)

Bam. Man, Bavan isn't given enough credit for her role in that group.

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George Tucker!

[Late]

  On 4/29/2021 at 4:05 PM, mjzee said:

George Tucker!

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I'd never seen what Tucker looked like before this video. He really gets into the music.

[Hoppy T. Frog]

True story, I read this topic as "pony Poindexter only fans".

[JSngry]

  On 4/29/2021 at 3:24 PM, Late said:

Bam. Man, Bavan isn't given enough credit for her role in that group.

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As another twist of quirk and cutout binnage traffic of the times, I hear Lambert, Hendricks, & Bavan years before Lambert, Hendricks, & Ross. Their Live at Basin Street East LP (in a Dynaflex pressing, no less) ended up in a Gibson's Discount Center for $1.99 or some such. I must confess that I loved the band, loved Hendricks too (& Lambert a little less), but Bavan sounded kind choppy on her vocalese...but superb on the part singing.

This video is...sweet. Her hand and face singing is enchanting and a record conveys none of that. Still just a LITTLE choppy on the vocalese, but, damn, she handles those tempos, eh?

Thinking about it, how many options were there to take Annie Ross's place?  The cumulative skill set needed...it would either have to be some freakish unknwon studio singer or a complete unknown chopmistress like Bavan,

The choice would be obvious, I would think!

                        

[Late]

Yolande Bavan on To Tell The Truth. Weird show, but hard to turn away from it. Her talking voice is a fair amount different than her singing voice.

 

[mikeweil]

Poindexter tells in his memoirs he left Lambert, Hendricks & Bavan beacuse the latter was no jazz singer in his ears, at least compared to Annie Ross. They did a lot of scatting contests on stage that never were documented on record, and Bavan couldn't do this. The MPS ive CD gives an impression of what he talks about.It must have been a horrifying situation when Annie Ross had to stay behind in the UK for health reasons (she had no insurance in the USA), and finding someone who was able to learn all the arrangements in a very short time was a real challenge. Bavan did a great job, but L H & R was one of a kind. Carol Sloane would have been a good replacement, but she did only a few singular gigs.

That MPS swings like mad. Highly recommended!

[mikeweil]

My Pony Poindexter Discography is now online.