Hot Stove Thread 2011-2012

[Quincy]

According to ESPN Boston, the choice for the next manager of the Red Sox is down to either Bobby Valentine or Gene Lamont. Everyone knows Valentine. Lamont has been Jim Leyland's third base coach in Detroit for the last few years. He's 65 years old and has managed in the majors before. Supposably, a final decision will be made no later than next Monday.

Lamont came oh so close to getting the Pirates to play .500 ball in the late '90s. That's a major accomplishment! He also had some good years with the White Sox. He's very deserving.

[Brad]

Whatever you have to say about Valentine, if they choose him as the manager, it will be interesting!

[Tim McG]

What I'm not understanding is what was so wrong with the BoSox last manager? I mean, Valentine would be an improvement...?

Edited November 29, 2011 by GoodSpeak

[Brad]

What I'm not understanding is what was so wrong with the BoSox last manager? I mean, Valentine would be an improvement...?

From what I've read, he lost control of the clubhouse and certain players were eating and drinking during games. That's the kind of thing that Bobby would not tolerate. Having seen him operate with the Mets, he is not one to suffer fools gladly and he thinks he's smarter than most other managers -- and he lets them know it.

[Tim McG]

What I'm not understanding is what was so wrong with the BoSox last manager? I mean, Valentine would be an improvement...?

From what I've read, he lost control of the clubhouse and certain players were eating and drinking during games. That's the kind of thing that Bobby would not tolerate. Having seen him operate with the Mets, he is not one to suffer fools gladly and he thinks he's smarter than most other managers -- and he lets them know it.

Gotcha. Thanks for the info.

I wasn't aware it was that bad in Boston.

Good news for my Giants though:

GM Brian Sabean and Manager Bruce Bochy have been re-hired through the 2013 season with club options for 2014.

[paul secor]

From what I've read, he lost control of the clubhouse and certain players were eating and drinking during games. That's the kind of thing that Bobby would not tolerate. Having seen him operate with the Mets, he is not one to suffer fools gladly and he thinks he's smarter than most other managers -- and he lets them know it.

Sometimes there's a fine line between being smart and being a smartass. Valentine has been accused of crossing that line.

[JSngry]

Greg Maddux reportedly joining the Rangers

http://www.lonestarball.com/2011/11/29/2597127/greg-maddux-reportedly-joining-the-rangers

Hopefully Thad Levine stays in the front office (odds are even at best on that, alas), but with CJ maybe going (but not yet gone), Feliz joining the rotation, and Holland/Harrison being looked to sit at the grown-ups table every time out no matter what, can one have too many Madduxes in one's organization to lend a helping hand to working with the arms?

I think not!

btw - I luvved me some Greg Maddux when he played (offense gets me in the bedroom, but pitching and defense get me to to the altar) ...I've never autograph-whored before, ever, but if the opportunity presents itself for a Greg Madduxgraph, all bets might be off.

[Dave James]

ESPN is reporting that the Sox have offered the job to Valentine. Two things. First, 2012 will be very interesting in Bean Town and second, Dan will be in the market for a new favorite team.

[Quincy]

ESPN is reporting that the Sox have offered the job to Valentine. Two things. First, 2012 will be very interesting in Bean Town and second, Dan will be in the market for a new favorite team.

So that's who I saw in the gorilla costume heading to Wrigley.

[Brad]

ESPN is reporting that the Sox have offered the job to Valentine. Two things. First, 2012 will be very interesting in Bean Town and second, Dan will be in the market for a new favorite team.

So that's who I saw in the gorilla costume heading to Wrigley.

Maybe when they start winning, he'll come back.

[Dan Gould]

I will never come back while Bobby Valentine is in that dugout.

How can I possibly enjoy watching a team when I am going to be exposed, multiple times in every broadcast, to one of the biggest assholes the game has ever seen and be reminded that he is calling every on-field shot?

How can I watch Sportscenter or read the Globe when Bobby Fucking Valentine will be a part of every report?

It is appalling and infuriating - MORE appalling and infuriating than 7-20, by the way - to go from a class act, a truly intelligent yet modest man like Terry Francona to a giant ASSHAT in Bobby Valentine.

And you want to know why I hate Bobby Valentine so much to walk away from 35 years of being a fan of the Red Sox:

Massive ego in gross disproportion to actual talent or consistent results.

There are few consolations but there is this:

Valentine is such an egotistical POS that he never lasts very long in an MLB gig, does he? My guess is that they want Valentine as a stop-gap, put up with his shit for a couple of years, see what happens, then go full-bore for the old pitching coach if and when Toronto lets him go after his contract is up in 2013.

Anyone know a cheap source for Cub caps? I am coming home to my earliest childhood team.

[JSngry]

Anyone know a cheap source for Cub caps?

Try Greg Maddux.

[Brad]

I will never come back while Bobby Valentine is in that dugout.

How can I possibly enjoy watching a team when I am going to be exposed, multiple times in every broadcast, to one of the biggest assholes the game has ever seen and be reminded that he is calling every on-field shot?

How can I watch Sportscenter or read the Globe when Bobby Fucking Valentine will be a part of every report?

It is appalling and infuriating - MORE appalling and infuriating than 7-20, by the way - to go from a class act, a truly intelligent yet modest man like Terry Francona to a giant ASSHAT in Bobby Valentine.

And you want to know why I hate Bobby Valentine so much to walk away from 35 years of being a fan of the Red Sox:

Massive ego in gross disproportion to actual talent or consistent results.

There are few consolations but there is this:

Valentine is such an egotistical POS that he never lasts very long in an MLB gig, does he? My guess is that they want Valentine as a stop-gap, put up with his shit for a couple of years, see what happens, then go full-bore for the old pitching coach if and when Toronto lets him go after his contract is up in 2013.

Anyone know a cheap source for Cub caps? I am coming home to my earliest childhood team.

I don't agree with any of this except maybe that he does have a big ego, but whatever. I would like my manager to have a big ego, thinking he's better than everyone else. As far as his longevity, he managed the Rangers for about seven and a half years and the Mets for a little over six years. That's not short in my opinion. Nothing like LaRussa or Torre. I believe he managed in the Japanese League for about five years and only left because he wanted to come home. With the Mets, he was generally successful, winning the wild card in 1999 and the pennant in 2000.

Even if this was all true, haven't you been a fan of the BoSox for years. I don't see how you can just walk away.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Brad

[JSngry]

I would like my manager to have a big ego, thinking he's better than everyone else.

I like for my manager to believe (and, ideally, know) that his players are better than anybody else, and that he knows how to get the best out of them.

Whatever ego he then has about himself should always take a back seat to that, at least in the clubhouse. What is put forth for public consumption is another matter altogether.

[Dan Gould]

.510 lifetime winning percentage.

Like I said, ego in gross disproportion to results.

[Brad]

.510 lifetime winning percentage.

Like I said, ego in gross disproportion to results.

Perhaps but are you really willing to give up on the team you've rooted for your whole life? Not sure I could do that.

[Dan Gould]

.510 lifetime winning percentage.

Like I said, ego in gross disproportion to results.

Perhaps but are you really willing to give up on the team you've rooted for your whole life? Not sure I could do that.

I said at the end of the season that I took these games too seriously and needed to take a big step away. How would you feel if you stayed deeply invested, cared as much, and were confronted, every single day, with a person you loathe in charge of the team you're rooting for?

One last thing, Brad. Valentine has hung players out to dry many times. I think that's a BS and extremely counter-productive thing for a manager to do. But it is something an egotistical jackass does.

[Brad]

Dan,

I know about taking a step back. We do get caught up too much with our teams sometimes. And I understand you're not wanting to think about Valentine.

So, when is your first trip to Wrigley?

[Noj]

I've never turned on any of my teams, despite the desire to. Whatever coach or player comes in, I'll support 'em until I'm inclined to support their removal from my team. Team first!

Maybe Valentine will be a lighthearted shot-in-the-arm for the BoSox. Someone who will bring fun back into the clubhouse which will translate to winning on the field. It's tough to know what the chemistry will be like until one sees the team in action! It's not like Boston doesn't have players who can produce on the diamond.

[Johnny E]

In other news...it looks like the Mariners are going to go hard after Prince Fielder. I'm all in favor of it, no matter what the cost. I'm not sure I can take another season of record breaking offensive anemia.

[Brad]

Not that this should matter but a BoSox fan I spoke to today was quite happy to have Valentine as a manager so he can kick the players' tails and get them playing how they should.

[JSngry]

Hopefully Thad Levine stays in the front office (odds are even at best on that, alas),

Levine is staying. Excellent!

[Dan Gould]

Best news I've heard in a while:

Valentine's deal is for two years. Just as I suspected, they want Valentine as a stop-gap until their ex-pitching coach potentially becomes available when his contract with Toronto ends.

Two years and counting until I can enjoy a Red Sox game again.

[Brad]

Just because it's two years doesn't mean he'll be gone in two years, particularly if he does a good job.

WFAN in NY is carrying his press conference at 530 EST for those who may be interested. It will be available at wfan.com

There were several positive articles about the appointment today in the Times, including one about his tenure in Japan. See Brilliant and Bold in Any Language.

George Vecsey's column: Valentine in Boston: Now That's Entertainment.

The Bats Blog from a couple of days ago: For Red Sox Life Just Got Very Interesting.

Regretful Phillips Takes Blame for Feud with Valentine.

If you give him half a chance you might be pleasantly surprised. I know that Mets fans (who would love to have him back) and Yankee fans are quite interested as to what he'll do.

[Dan Gould]

the only way to wipe the slate clean with Bobby Valentine (in other words, to ignore everything about him and root for the team is now the manager of is if he wins the 2012 World Series.