Classic Coleman Hawkins Sessions Available for Preorder!

[jazzbo]

Well, there's material that Mosaic has issued on different sets, for example Blue Note sides that appeared in both Hodes and Bechet sets. I think the real rule is that they won't re-release a set they've already made and "sold out".

And in fact Hampton-led material is in both this set and the Hampton set.

That may be so, but fact is that they abandoned a Henderson set when they decided to go ahead with the Hawkins box. I have no idea whether they will reconsider or not, but if they do, it won't be any time soon.

I was not disputing that. But they obviously don't have a rule about reissuing the same material within sets. . .

[golfcrazy1984]

I listened to disk 8 last night and I too (as crisp stated before), was taken aback by the vitality and energy of the bands and Coleman too.

The session that I listened to several times was the Metronome All-Stars session:

(EEE) METRONOME ALL STAR BAND: Charlie Shavers (tp), Lawrence Brown (tb), Johnny Hodges (as), Coleman Hawkins (ts), Harry Carney (bari), Nat “King” Cole (p, vcl), Bob Ahern (g), Eddie Safranski (b), Buddy Rich (d), Frank Sinatra, June Christy (vcl), Sy Oliver (arr).

NYC, December 15, 1946

REALLY good quality sound. Charlie Shavers in his solos are virtuostic. Hodges is perfect and this is some of the best Lawrence Brown I've heard. It's interesting to hear a younger Sinatra. Anyways looking forward to checking the rest of the set out, but this session was 1st priority for me.

Well, I have asked Scott about a Henderson set. I'll report back when I hear from him. I checked and they have indeed duplicated material before so to speak, so that policy (which I was told did exist) seems to be flexible.

Thanks Hans for checking on the possible Henderson set, let us know what you hear!

[J.A.W.]

Well, there's material that Mosaic has issued on different sets, for example Blue Note sides that appeared in both Hodes and Bechet sets. I think the real rule is that they won't re-release a set they've already made and "sold out".

I checked and, as Lon said, the Mosaic policy not to reissue material they've issued before is limited to Mosaic sets that are OOP. Sorry for the misinformation.

Edited June 1, 2012 by J.A.W.

[J.A.W.]

Just heard back from Scott. He said that "the Hawk set had somewhat to do why the Henderson was abandoned." He also said that they just had other projects that trumped the Henderson and they did have a bunch of Henderson on the Chu Berry set as well. So, no Henderson set in the foreseeable future.

Edited June 1, 2012 by J.A.W.

[crisp]

Well, I have asked Scott about a Henderson set. I'll report back when I hear from him. I checked and they have indeed duplicated material before so to speak, so that policy (which I was told did exist) seems to be flexible.

That's right, they won't reissue entire sets (hence the first vinyl-only Hodges set will never come out on CD, dammit), but there are duplications of individual tracks and sessions all over the place.

I hope you're mistaken about there being no Henderson set, unless the bulk of it would be a repeat of the Hawkins set, in which case I really don't mind. Thanks for checking.

The session that I listened to several times was the Metronome All-Stars session:

That's the session I'm most apprehensive about. It's a stellar band (although I never thought Sinatra quite fitted in), but they only play two songs, repeatedly, which could be quite taxing. Are the solos sufficiently varied from take to take?

[J.A.W.]

I hope you're mistaken about there being no Henderson set, unless the bulk of it would be a repeat of the Hawkins set, in which case I really don't mind. Thanks for checking.

See my post above yours: no Henderson set.

[J.A.W.]

That's right, they won't reissue entire sets (hence the first vinyl-only Hodges set will never come out on CD, dammit), but there are duplications of individual tracks and sessions all over the place.

Mosaic couldn't get permission to issue those 1951-1955 Johnny Hodges Verve sides on CD. Hopefully Universal imprint Hip-O will issue them on CD, like they did with the 1952-1954 Stan Getz Norgran/Clef/Verve sessions; don't hold your breath, though, especially since they've already been released by one of Europe's public-domain labels.

Edited June 1, 2012 by J.A.W.

[golfcrazy1984]

Well, I have asked Scott about a Henderson set. I'll report back when I hear from him. I checked and they have indeed duplicated material before so to speak, so that policy (which I was told did exist) seems to be flexible.

That's right, they won't reissue entire sets (hence the first vinyl-only Hodges set will never come out on CD, dammit), but there are duplications of individual tracks and sessions all over the place.

I hope you're mistaken about there being no Henderson set, unless the bulk of it would be a repeat of the Hawkins set, in which case I really don't mind. Thanks for checking.

The session that I listened to several times was the Metronome All-Stars session:

That's the session I'm most apprehensive about. It's a stellar band (although I never thought Sinatra quite fitted in), but they only play two songs, repeatedly, which could be quite taxing. Are the solos sufficiently varied from take to take?

IMHO, the solos vary slightly, with Hodges and Shavers having the most variance. For me I like hearing the subtle differences from track to track, but I can totally understand how 5 or 6 takes of a song can be irritating. Lawrence Brown and Harry Carney are virtually note for note, and Hawkins just has this background riff that he plays. Buddy Rich's breaks are SO good though! The snare sound is VERY lifelike. That session has great sound quality. Nat, Frank and June sound marvelous.

[David Ayers]

Chuck subtly made the point this has all been out before. Has it *all* been out before though - looks to me like, alt takes aside, yes. Anyone work this out?

Edited June 1, 2012 by David Ayers

[J.A.W.]

Chuck subtly made the point this has all been out before. Has it *all* been out before though - looks to me like, alt takes aside, yes. Anyone wokre this out?

OK, so I'm dumb, not getting his point. Nice to know. I'll not respond to his posts from now on, some of which are far too "subtle" for me anyway.

Edited June 1, 2012 by J.A.W.

[golfcrazy1984]

Does this set include Body and Soul? I've been looking everywhere for this?

Is this the subtle sentance, you're referring to?

Whether this music has been out before on CD or whatever, I DON'T have it, so I'm excited. I havent been around as long as most on the forum (27 yrs old), so most of this music is new to me.

[J.A.W.]

Does this set include Body and Soul? I've been looking everywhere for this?

Is this the subtle sentance, you're referring to?

Whether this music has been out before on CD or whatever, I DON'T have it, so I'm excited. I havent been around as long as most on the forum (27 yrs old), so most of this music is new to me.

It's also nice to have this music in one great package, sarcastic remarks or not.

Edited June 1, 2012 by J.A.W.

[Late]

Actually, the set doesn't have "Body and Soul." It turns out that, all along, that famous solo we all know and love was played by the reclusive McElroy McDermott. A third cousin of Hawkins who was present on the day of the session, this is McDermott's only known recorded performance. Information gathered from a number of semi-reliable jazz forums suggests that, as the tapes began to roll, Hawkins was searching for his bottle of cognac, and, as a result, is indeed not the tenor player believed to be heard. McDermott, based on a number of oral accounts, was uncomfortably aware of Hawkins' stinginess with drink, and had, apparently only minutes earlier, concealed the bottle in his own saxophone case. The reason for this act is unknown, though some suggest it was a non-verbal "lesson" from the younger cousin. Regardless, McDermott's playing is inspired.*

* The Complete McElroy McDermott Session is scheduled to be released by Mosaic on a 3" CD, along with some previously unheard bonus tracks — namely a :03 track of giggling, and a gorgeous :08 off-mike spoken cadenza of expletives — sometime in 2013.

[J.A.W.]

Actually, the set doesn't have "Body and Soul." It turns out that, all along, that famous solo we all know and love was played by the reclusive McElroy McDermott. A third cousin of Hawkins who was present on the day of the session, this is McDermott's only known recorded performance. Information gathered from a number of semi-reliable jazz forums suggests that, as the tapes began to roll, Hawkins was searching for his bottle of cognac, and, as a result, is indeed not the tenor player believed to be heard. McDermott, based on a number of oral accounts, was uncomfortably aware of Hawkins' stinginess with drink, and had, apparently only minutes earlier, concealed the bottle in his own saxophone case. The reason for this act is unknown, though some suggest it was a non-verbal "lesson" from the younger cousin. Regardless, McDermott's playing is inspired.*

* The Complete McElroy McDermott Session is scheduled to be released by Mosaic on a 3" CD, along with some previously unheard bonus tracks — namely a :03 track of giggling, and a gorgeous :08 off-mike spoken cadenza of expletives — sometime in 2013.

[David Ayers]

Subtleties aside, this seems mainly familiar - am I right?

[JSngry]

Actually, the set doesn't have "Body and Soul." It turns out that, all along, that famous solo we all know and love was played by the reclusive McElroy McDermott. A third cousin of Hawkins who was present on the day of the session, this is McDermott's only known recorded performance. Information gathered from a number of semi-reliable jazz forums suggests that, as the tapes began to roll, Hawkins was searching for his bottle of cognac, and, as a result, is indeed not the tenor player believed to be heard. McDermott, based on a number of oral accounts, was uncomfortably aware of Hawkins' stinginess with drink, and had, apparently only minutes earlier, concealed the bottle in his own saxophone case. The reason for this act is unknown, though some suggest it was a non-verbal "lesson" from the younger cousin. Regardless, McDermott's playing is inspired.*

* The Complete McElroy McDermott Session is scheduled to be released by Mosaic on a 3" CD, along with some previously unheard bonus tracks — namely a :03 track of giggling, and a gorgeous :08 off-mike spoken cadenza of expletives — sometime in 2013.

Quiet as it's kept, McDermott is also the alto player on "Charlie Parker"'s ill-fated Lover Man date. Seems that Bird actually had his breakdown the day before that session. But Ross Russell already had everything booked and paid for, McDermott was in town (when was he ever not?), so raw necessity did what it does best - make a lot of weird shit happen that nobody wants to fully fess up to.

Unfortunately, the years had not been kind to McDermott's relation to the bottle, and for decades nobody had any problems believing the ruse. Not, that is, until Lou Donaldson spilled the beans in a phone call to a certain NYC sports talk radio program.

[crisp]

See my post above yours: no Henderson set.

Got it. Thanks again. If it's all pretty much on other Mosaics I'm not bothered by this.

Whether this music has been out before on CD or whatever, I DON'T have it, so I'm excited. I havent been around as long as most on the forum (27 yrs old), so most of this music is new to me.

Yup. Moreover, I'm 43, have been buying jazz records since I was 18 and since I don't care for public domain CDs and want the music mastered (mainly) from the originals and in one place I too am very excited by this set. Oh, and it's the first time I have owned a copy of Hawk's Body and Soul.

Thanks for your comments on the Sinatra session too.

[king ubu]

See my post above yours: no Henderson set.

Got it. Thanks again. If it's all pretty much on other Mosaics I'm not bothered by this.

It may be on the McDermott Mosaic. "Been out there" in this case means in plenty a form and shape, but not necessarily on Mosaic...

[SwingItTrev]

Too many comedians

[JSngry]

Mosaic should do comedy Boxes as well as what they already do. Just from the Universal archives alone, you could do Second City, Nichols& May, Johnathan Winters, Shellie Berman, Jackie Mason, Mort Sahl, Buddy Hackett, who knows who else.

[miles65]

See my post above yours: no Henderson set.

Got it. Thanks again. If it's all pretty much on other Mosaics I'm not bothered by this.

This set covers 'only' the part where Hawkins solo's on Hendersons recordings. But there is much more. The combined Classics and Neatwork CD's amount to 19. Henderson recorded for a large number of labels. Not all of them are owned by Sony/BMG but a lot are. I have no idea how big a big Henderson set would be. IMO a big Mosaic Henderson would be very interesting and 7 CD's would probably not enough. But Hans points out this is not to be.

[medjuck]

Hmmm. One disadvantage to buying the box upon release is that the listings aren't in CDDB yet. When I went to import the discs into iTunes, all I get for song titles are "Track 1," "Track 2," etc.

They're there now. Anybody here do it?

[JSngry]

Just had #0533 arrive...seems like a low # considering that pre-orders were being taken for, what, 9 months in advance and I didn't order until after the set was officially announced as being officially ready to ship.

This one needs to sell!

[Chuck Nessa]

That reflects the reality of the music biz today.

[JSngry]

Here's hoping that this one gets the loving pimping in the jazz press that the Prez set did and that it moves with somewhat the same speed.