"Is Blue Note striking off key?"

[chris]

There's something to that. I would put Norah Jones in the same category as artists like Aimee Mann...

Yet unlike Aimee, Norah can sing in tune.

Why I oughta--

Aimee Mann sings in tune. I find her work very expressive and her lyrics quite fine. I actually enjoy her work a lot more than Norah's, but I file them in the same place in a collection.

[Jim Alfredson]

I have to admit, I've only heard her on this Christmas collection my wife has singing "The Chirstmas Song" and she does not have a handle on the intervals... she is very much out of tune on that song. It hurts.

But that's all I've heard of her so I suppose I shouldn't make a judgement.

[pryan]

I really don't understand the article. I really don't think of the Blue Note of today as being the same entity as the Blue Note of the fifties and sixties. The Blue Note then was a record label; the Blue Note today is a marketing term used by EMI. Pretending that they're this small jazz label on the cutting edge seems to be a bit odd. There are other labels that fill that niche today; the Blue Note name is primarily a marketing tool.

I agree with this stance also. It's interesting to note the appeal, however, that the BN label has for some artists -- the mystique of the BN of old perhaps helps to generate this attraction.

[Tjazz]

I like Norah Jones and Van Morrison. Al Green? I have his early stuff and one of his CD box sets.

Bought the Norah Jones and Van Morrison Blue Note stuff.

But Al Green? Did it sell? Is it any good? I thought he's a preacher

Edited January 14, 2004 by Tjazz

[CJ Shearn]

Dave, very well said about Lee Morgan's success being similar to that of Jones, I was thinking much the same, the only difference is the style of music being played really being more poppish as opposed to deep down and funky. After "The Sidewinder", BN and other labels were looking for the next big hit. And actually Lee's "Search for the New Land" was his second release after the success of "Sidewinder" but it was shelved in favor of more Lee that was a bit less adventurous. Perhaps the success of that record afforded BN the opportunity to record more chance taking and adventurous releases by McLean, Shorter, Henderson, Taylor, Hutcherson among others? In my mind the years 1964-66 were some of the labels' most exploratory years with records like "Maiden Voyage", "Empyrean Isles", "Mode For Joe", "Speak No Evil", "Unity", Jackie Mac's stuff (which I have not heard) and "Lifetime" to name a few. In the present time, other labels like Verve have signed non traditional names like Aaron Neville, in hopes of finding a similar cross over success like what BN has. If anything, success like that might get people to explore some of the riches' these labels have within.

[danasgoodstuff]

I bought the Rev. Al's latest recently and quite like it. He and Willie Mitchel used mostly the same players, the same studio and even the same michrophones as back in the day, so it may not sound like bluenote but it certainly does sound like Hi Records.

[Chuck Nessa]

The Blue Note revered here died when Alfred retired. The remnants lived until Frank died. Anything else is something else.

The current owners of the legacy are doing a decent job of keeping the history alive. Not perfect, but OK.

What ever they do to keep the label name alive (and reissues coming) is just fine. It could be a lot worse.

I know these sentiments were stated above, but I want to put it into one post.

[Harold_Z]

Rimshot,

  WKCR(89.9) plays a lot of jazz- well worth checking out.

WKCR is a great station. Basically WKCR and WBGO are 90% of my radio listening with the other 10% being NPR.

I'm in agreement with the above post by Chuck. Why should Blue Note be

restricted to one type of Music? Columbia for example, released a lot of great Jazz along with many other types of music.

Edited January 15, 2004 by Harold_Z

[chris]

I have to admit, I've only heard her on this Christmas collection my wife has singing "The Chirstmas Song" and she does not have a handle on the intervals... she is very much out of tune on that song. It hurts.

But that's all I've heard of her so I suppose I shouldn't make a judgement.

I've never heard that song, so you may be right. But I don't hear anything out of tune on her albums... she's quite good.

[chris olivarez]

I'll go along with the school of thought that says Blue Note isn't the same but they do have that great treasure trove of music that they keep reissuing I like Van Morrison,Al Green and Norah Jones and if they sell a bunch of cd's that will help motivate Blue Note into re releasing all that great music that I didn't get the first time well then that's alright with me.

[Rimshot]

Rimshot,

WKCR(89.9) plays a lot of jazz- well worth checking out.

Thanks PhllyQ, I do tune in once in a while when I'm travelling towards the city. Unfortunately their signal is very weak and I can't get it on Long Island.

I still long for the days of WRVR. A full time commercial jazz radio station.

I don't want to take away from the great work that the University stations are doing because thank God they're there. I just can't understand how a city as massive as New York, with the history

that it has with jazz, and all of the jazz listeners here, can't support a powerful full time commercial jazz station.

CD 101.9 fm definitely fills a void for some people, but it is a very slanted view of a small part of jazz. I'm not going to trash it, it's just not the kind of music I personally want to listen to most of the time. Unfortunately because it is so prevailant, it is what most New Yorkers think of when I mention jazz to them.

I read on another thread here that WKCR is working with a stronger signal now. I still can't get it that well out here in "the sticks".

Oh well, WBGO (83.3fm) comes in loud and clear---go figger.

[chris]

It may be that Blue Note is no longer the label it was 20-30 years ago, but does this mean that a discussion about what aesthetic position it takes (and whether a label SHOULD try to represent a coherent aesthetic-- or is that the kiss of death in today's economy) so out of line?

Blue Note may just be a marketing wing of Capitol, but what is it this wing is trying to market? What does it stand for if anything?

[Jazzmoose]

It may be that Blue Note is no longer the label it was 20-30 years ago, but does this mean that a discussion about what aesthetic position it takes (and whether a label SHOULD try to represent a coherent aesthetic-- or is that the kiss of death in today's economy) so out of line?

Sorry, Chris, but pet peeve time: no, it's not out of line, but if my opinion is that such approaches are misguided, that' not out of line either. This sounds a lot like the "I have a right to say what I want, so you can't disagree with me" argument...

[Parkertown]

Jackie Mac's stuff (which I have not heard)

[mikeweil]

I'm in agreement with the above post by Chuck. Why should Blue Note be restricted to one type of Music? Columbia for example, released a lot of great Jazz along with many other types of music.

..... and it shifted to issue pop music in the first place, when jazz was no longer the most popular and/or danceable music. It stopped producing new jazz recordings entirely at several points since then. Blue Note was down too, for many years. I agree with Chuck that the Blue Note many board members cherish died with Alfred Lion, or, I think, with his retirement.

Strange - noone would expect a new Riverside, although Keepnews founded a number of new label therafter.

[JSngry]

You know, I got really upset when Total stopped making oatmeal, but Al Green on Blue Note doesn't bother me one bit.

Hell, if they want to reactivate Pacific Jazz and do a Brian Wilson solo album, that's cool with me too. Possibly even more than cool, depending on the results...

It's all music, and it's all business. You want "purity" and "vision", look somewhere besides a corporate entity. Or even better, compare Blue Note to Verve and send Bruce Lundvall a note of thanks.

[mikeweil]

Or even better, compare Blue Note to Verve and send Bruce Lundvall a note of thanks.

I'm afraid you're right, Jim ...

[chris]

It may be that Blue Note is no longer the label it was 20-30 years ago, but does this mean that a discussion about what aesthetic position it takes (and whether a label SHOULD try to represent a coherent aesthetic-- or is that the kiss of death in today's economy) so out of line?

Sorry, Chris, but pet peeve time: no, it's not out of line, but if my opinion is that such approaches are misguided, that' not out of line either. This sounds a lot like the "I have a right to say what I want, so you can't disagree with me" argument...

Jazzmoose: I think you misunderstand me. I was SUPPORTING discussion of this issue, which it seemed a few were implicitly trying to squelch with a kind of Gumpish circular reasoning that "a label is as a label does"--

That may be the case, but what I am asking is: should a record label have a coherent aesthetic approach to the music it publishes or is it just business-- or is there some middle ground, and what is it?

Further, I am asking what does Blue Note stand for-- it must have some reason for existence, and if only as a marketing branch, what product is it trying to market?

I'm certainly not expecting agreement, but I think hand-wringing about what Blue Note *was* is a lot less interesting than discussing what it *is* and what it *should be* given today's economic realities.

[chris]

I should add, Moose, that I'm not clear what the word "approach" is referring to in your message. Which may mean my whole response was moot. At any rate, I was definitely NOT taking a position such as you characterized.

[JSngry]

I am asking what does Blue Note stand for...what product is it trying to market?

Its catalog/vault items

New jazz that is either "conservatively progressive" (meaning that it might displease some folks, but it won't scare anybody ) or a continuation of the label's (mostly) Wolff-led years "Rare Groove" style

And

Singers that a lot of jazz people have dug over the years. Remember, Mose Allison has been with them for a while now. Don't know if he still is, though. We've also had Lou rawls and Dr. John, and I'm sure there's been others. You got Dianne Reeves too. Thank God it's not Dianne Schurr!

Actually, it seems like a pretty diverse-yet-coherent agenda if you ask me. Music that is comfortably different and is either "jazz" or "today's non-smooth-jazz-listener-friendly". Not too much of the new stuff thrills me, but I doubt that I'm their target demographic either.

And, of course, there's Norah Jones, who I really don't think anybody had a clue was actually going to become a freakin' Pop Star. I think they saw her as an interesting jazz/country hybrid, not too terribly dissimilar from some aspects of Mose, albeit several generations removed in style and substance. But they heard something "different", something of musical interest that didn't fit any then-established pop niche and was closer to jazz than to any "commercial" format at the time. Credit Lundvall's veteran expertise with knowing how to fully capitalize on that Pop Stardom when it began to happen, helping the Blue Note bottom line to no end, and possibly saving EMI from some deep shit. Not for nothing did this guy used to be head of Columbia!

Edited January 15, 2004 by JSngry

[GA Russell]

Jim, I like your phrase "today's non-smooth-jazz-listener-friendly". I wish all the labels would do more of it.

Blue Note recently finished first (Record Label of the Year) in the Jazz Times 2003 Readers Poll.

When it comes to reissues, I would rank Blue Note behind only Fantasy. When it comes to new recordings, I would rank them first. Any disagreements welcome!

For many years so many items of the EMI catalogue were unavailable. During the past ten years so much has been made available, if only for a little while.

I think Blue Note is a cause for celebration! Wouldn't you love to see Atlantic's catalogue given similar treatment?

[Jazzmoose]

Got it, Chris. I blame the decaf. I'll get off my ass and grind some real coffee.

[Jazzmoose]

As to what Blue Note is marketing, I'd agree with Jim S. in general, though I'd probably put it differently (and not as well, I might add!). Blue Note is primarily marketing the basic cornerstone music of jazz. I see the basic Blue Note package as the perfect "entry point" (gateway drug?) for those who want to get into jazz. Maybe it's just me, but I see Blue Note's big names (I'm thinking Blakey and his former 'students' as it were primarily) as the perfect place to start with jazz. Hard bop is real jazz, yet it's accessable in ways that many forms of jazz, both older and more modern, aren't. Plus, it can lead you to pretty much any point in jazz, depending on which path appeals to you.

While I think a lot of people who start out with Blue Note's classic output probably get a little too wrapped up in it and stick with it longer than they should without exploring other aspects of jazz, it seems likely to me (and admittedly, I have no proof other than my own experience) that it's easier to start with this stuff and move to other facets of jazz than it would be to start anywhere else and get the same wide exposure to the language of the music. Is this making any sense?

[JSngry]

As to what Blue Note is marketing, I'd agree with Jim S. in general, though I'd probably put it differently (and not as well, I might add!).  Blue Note is primarily marketing the basic cornerstone music of jazz.  I see the basic Blue Note package as the perfect "entry point" (gateway drug?) for those who want to get into jazz.  Maybe it's just me, but I see Blue Note's big names (I'm thinking Blakey and his former 'students' as it were primarily) as the perfect place to start with jazz.  Hard bop is real jazz, yet it's accessable in ways that many forms of jazz, both older and more modern, aren't.  Plus, it can lead you to pretty much any point in jazz, depending on which path appeals to you.

While I think a lot of people who start out with Blue Note's classic output probably get a little too wrapped up in it and stick with it longer than they should without exploring other aspects of jazz, it seems likely to me (and admittedly, I have no proof other than my own experience) that it's easier to start with this stuff and move to other facets of jazz than it would be to start anywhere else and get the same wide exposure to the language of the music.  Is this making any sense?

Yeah, I suppose these days it does, but when I got into jazz, it was in an area where "classic" Blue Note was only available in the cutout bins (BLACK BYRD, Bobbi Humphrey, etc, otoh, were damn near everywhere), so I got seriously into Free Jazz, West Coast, Big Bands, Prestige, & Impulse! about 5-6 years before I got my Blue Note jones, which when I finally did get it, I got it hard. Those other styles, labels, and albums were a lot easier to come by for me, and the music "fit" really well. So I've never really had the Blue Note/Hard Bop "myopia" you so accurately describe. That music means a lot to me, obviously, but it's always been part of a bigger musical whole for me personally.

But, relevant to this thread, that was a different time.

Edited January 15, 2004 by JSngry

[montg]

This music is incrisis when it comes to the marketplace. It's in absolute crisis."

I find this claim by Lundvall to be disconcerting. First, I don't think it's true. There's so much interesting new jazz being released on a plethora of indies--'crisis' seems to be a misrepresentation. Maybe the corporate penthouse guys are looking for bigger profits, but the music certainly seems to be flourishing. Second, I'm so tired of hearing record execs complain about poor sales. If something's not selling, then do something about it--sign some more artists, sponsor a concert series on campuses, promote, educate etc....

be creative. when McDonalds' profits were shrinking they didn't whine about it. They gave us McGridles and new chicken McNuggets. Be creative Bruce.

Edited January 17, 2004 by montg