POLL: Who Is Number 5?

[Indestructible!]

Based on the interesting discussions in the "Tenor Sax Taxonomies" thread, I got to thinking... if we assume that Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, Sonny Rollins, and John Coltrane are the four most significant influences on other tenor sax player, who is number five?

So, it's poll time: In your opinion, who is the fifth most influential tenor sax player in the history of jazz?

Keep in mind that the board restricts the number of poll options to 10, so I was limited in who I could put in the poll... if you select "Other" (and I'm assuming many will), please let us know your choice.

Also, let's keep the selection to someone for whom the tenor sax was their primary instrument. For example, although I believe Charlie Parker was actually the biggest influence out of any of the tenor players listed above, the tenor sax was not his "main" instrument (the same could be said for Ornette Coleman... "Ornette on Tenor" is a hell of an album, but it doesn't quite fit here).

Vote away!

[king ubu]

What's "influential", really? Biggest impact on jazz history, most disciples... in that respect, was Ammons influential? (Don't get me wrong, I love him!)

Guess I might go with Don Byas... or with Chu Berry or Ben Webster.

(edited for lousy spelling)

Edited October 2, 2011 by king ubu

[Chuck Nessa]

Prince Robinson. I dare you to listen to the Ellington recording of Immigration Blues (12/29/26) and deny this. He was an originator, and beats a bunch of more famous names.

[John L]

Maybe Illinois Jacquet?

[JSngry]

Unless the whole thing stopped w/Trane, you gotta go Ayler.

But this too requires a flowchart or it never happened.

Me, I hate flowcharts.

[Chuck Nessa]

Listen to Prince!!!!

[jazzbo]

Prince was awesome.

I voted Ayler.

[Chuck Nessa]

But, this is about influence. I think Prince Robinson is the secret influence on the '40s, '50s and early '60s.

[Larry Kart]

I know that he himself was a Lester Young disciple, but I would say Stan Getz. Perhaps.

[Chuck Nessa]

PLEASE...Listen to Prince Robinson play on/in Immigration Blues. I will not give up.

[JSngry]

So Ayler and post-Ayler never happened? Or weren't "influential"? Or sub-influence counts more than moving-the-game-ahead influence? Or what?

If the line of 4 goes Hawk to Pres to Sonny to Trane, then either it goes to Ayler next for 5 or else somebody goes away out of the first four. That's the way math go.

See, I hate flowcharts, but I hate lists even more (except when they are of things to do that I will likely otherwise forget). This is why.

[Chuck Nessa]

Not denying Ayler and after ANYTHING! Just pimping Prince. Think he needs the props.

[JSngry]

Well, that's a good thing, definitely. Props needs pimps these days, more than ever.

Jsut had a listen, at your instigation, btw. Doesn't change the math, but the pimping of the props gets props itself, definitely.

[Chuck Nessa]

Look, the first guy to play the sax with a reed is number one.

Well, that's a good thing, definitely. Props needs pimps these days, more than ever.

Jsut had a listen, at your instigation, btw. Doesn't change the math, but the pimping of the props gets props itself, definitely.

So who played that kind of "grinding tenor" before that? Generations of players have lived off that.

I am talking about "influence", not "importance". 2 different things.

At this stage of things, Coltrane might have less influence than Brecker.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Chuck Nessa

[Chuck Nessa]

Seems different to me.

Geez, a post went away!

Edited October 3, 2011 by Chuck Nessa

[JSngry]

Look, the first guy to play the sax with a reed is number one.

Well, that's a good thing, definitely. Props needs pimps these days, more than ever.

Jsut had a listen, at your instigation, btw. Doesn't change the math, but the pimping of the props gets props itself, definitely.

So who played that kind of "grinding tenor" before that? Generations of players have lived off that.

You don't think any of that came from Bechet?

I am talking about "influence", not "importance". 2 different things.

At this stage of things, Coltrane might have less influence than Brecker.

And Sanborn less than Bird.

But...

[GA Russell]

Look, the first guy to play the sax with a reed is number one.

Adolph Sax!

[Chuck Nessa]

Look, the first guy to play the sax with a reed is number one.

Well, that's a good thing, definitely. Props needs pimps these days, more than ever.

Jsut had a listen, at your instigation, btw. Doesn't change the math, but the pimping of the props gets props itself, definitely.

So who played that kind of "grinding tenor" before that? Generations of players have lived off that.

You don't think any of that came from Bechet?

I am talking about "influence", not "importance". 2 different things.

At this stage of things, Coltrane might have less influence than Brecker.

And Sanborn less than Bird.

But...

????

[JSngry]

Seems different to me.

Well, it's a tenor, the vibrato is less than Bechet's, and there's not nearly as much "filigree", but to my ears, you could make it into Bechet w/o a whole lot of effort, just as you can make Little Walter into Hodges int Bechet.

Bechet is highly underrated as an influence on everything, I think.

[Chuck Nessa]

Something has gone awry with the software. I am almost afraid to post for fear it will be credited to/blamed on someone else.

[JSngry]

Look, the first guy to play the sax with a reed is number one.

Well, that's a good thing, definitely. Props needs pimps these days, more than ever.

Jsut had a listen, at your instigation, btw. Doesn't change the math, but the pimping of the props gets props itself, definitely.

So who played that kind of "grinding tenor" before that? Generations of players have lived off that.

You don't think any of that came from Bechet?

I am talking about "influence", not "importance". 2 different things.

At this stage of things, Coltrane might have less influence than Brecker.

And Sanborn less than Bird.

But...

????

I'm just saying - if you have to have just five (and it's really unfortunate if you do...) and if you waat it to be accurate, you either have Ayler after Trane or else you have a lie.

I fucking hate lists.

Something has gone awry with the software. I am almost afraid to post for fear it will be credited to/blamed on someone else.

Nah, I'm just trying to sync up the conversation while you're trying to do the same. It happens.

[Chuck Nessa]

Seems different to me.

Well, it's a tenor, the vibrato is less than Bechet's, and there's not nearly as much "filigree", but to my ears, you could make it into Bechet w/o a whole lot of effort, just as you can make Little Walter into Hodges int Bechet.

Bechet is highly underrated as an influence on everything, I think.

I agree about the importance/value of Bechet - for years I have felt Armstrong gets credit due Sidney. No argument about his influence. I just think Prince is worthy.

[JSngry]

No argument there!

[Chuck Nessa]

and the poll is about tenor players.

[Leeway]

Ayler has been more influential than Rollins.