BFT #91 Discussion

[fent99]

Your turn to tell me what you think!

Hopefully the link/cd's have arrived PM me if you have any bother.

I was going to do a 2 part bft of 90 mins with 45 mins a side as in mixtapes of old (much missed) but in the end CD length seemed to work just fine.

Mostly shouldn't be too hard and the tunes are things that have lodged in my brain so hopefully will lodge in all of yours!

Thanks for listening.

C

[BillF]

Once again my ignorance has been displayed! Only able to identify one track, #6, and it's driving me mad! This is the Gil Evans Orchestra and somewhere in my collection of 7 vinyl discs and one audiotape of relevant Gil Evans material I have a different version of this number, but I can't find it! It bears a strong resemblance to "There Comes a Time", but I don't think that's it. That's probably George Adams on tenor.

General comment: There are an awful lot of sopranos in your BFT! My recent BFT was dubbed a "bop fest", but I think yours is something of a soprano summit, not that yours resemble sopranos in the band of that name - they're more Coltrane than Bechet derived.

Will listen further and try to make some intelligent comments.

Edited October 2, 2011 by BillF

[Spontooneous]

To be more specific, Track 6 is from this album. (Can't find a copy of the album art that isn't on a bootleg site.)

[BillF]

To be more specific, Track 6 is from this album. (Can't find a copy of the album art that isn't on a bootleg site.)

Thanks for the identification, Sp. Which track is it on the album?

[Hot Ptah]

Track 8 is Carla Bley's composition "Ida Lupino", but I can't figure out who is playing it yet.

[Big Al]

Have download, but will be checking in once the Papa Jo Jones fest on WKCR is done! Or, once Schapp starts talking. Whichever comes first!

[BillF]

The tune on #6 is "Priestess" by Billy Harper. Thanks for helping me track this down, Sp. Your info suggests the tenor soloist is Billy Harper, rather than George Adams, as I'd thought.

Have download, but will be checking in once the Papa Jo Jones fest on WKCR is done! Or, once Schapp starts talking. Whichever comes first!

Diggin' the Jo Jones while writing on Organissimo. My idea of multitasking!

The tune on #6 is "Priestess" by Billy Harper. Thanks for helping me track this down, Sp. Your info suggests the tenor soloist is Billy Harper, rather than George Adams, as I'd thought.

Have download, but will be checking in once the Papa Jo Jones fest on WKCR is done! Or, once Schapp starts talking. Whichever comes first!

Diggin' the Jo Jones while writing on Organissimo. My idea of multitasking!

P.S. Schaap has now driven me back to my record collection!

[Hot Ptah]

Track 8 is Carla Bley's composition "Ida Lupino", but I can't figure out who is playing it yet.

Is #8 Michel Portal, from his "Dockings" album, playing Carla Bley's "Ida Lupino"?

[fent99]

The tune on #6 is "Priestess" by Billy Harper. Thanks for helping me track this down, Sp. Your info suggests the tenor soloist is Billy Harper, rather than George Adams, as I'd thought.

One correct. Great tune by great player!

Track 8 is Carla Bley's composition "Ida Lupino", but I can't figure out who is playing it yet.

Is #8 Michel Portal, from his "Dockings" album, playing Carla Bley's "Ida Lupino"?

Spot on here also. Another favourite tune which I've gathered lots of versions of!

[tkeith]

First listen, no peaking. This is a nice test. A lot of the soprano didn't appeal to me, but there's an awful lot to like about this BFT. Thanks!

Track 1 - I like this a lot. I tend to prefer my sax quartets a little dirtier (like the WSQ), but this is quite beautiful and the vocals really give it a unique flavor. No idea who it is, but liking it a lot.

Track 2 - Sounds like Charles Lloyd to me. A bit more bite than his recent stuff, but definitely has that modern ECM sound (of course, I'm listening on phones). Definitely Charles. Not sure who the others are. I like this, though; so far you're two for two. Something about the bass is reminding me a great deal of Ron Carter, but that doesn't seem right at all. Okay, not during the solo. I'll take a shot in the dark: Miroslav Vitous? First track was a bit short, this one runs long around 13 minutes (just not a fan of slap guitar harmonics, though clearly, I'm in the minority based on the crowd reaction). Is it possible that that's Metheny?

Track 3 - No idea, but this one missed me completely.

Track 4 - I'm in. I swear I was listening to this recently. I recognize that crying melody. Love that tone. A bit like Billy Mitchell, but more forceful. I'm leaning Illinois Jacquet (a guy I'm only recently getting more familiar with). Some touches of Lockjaw, but not enough triplets.

Track 5 - This is so completely unfair -- I was listening to Lacy and Gil Evans yesterday, and no other soprano is going to please me at this point. This is pleasant, but the sax isn't really reaching me. Yeah, piano solo lost me, too.

Track 6 - Oh now, why would you go there? Actually, I'm digging the sinister bells. Ah! Yes! This is Gil Evans covering Billy Harper's Priestess. I think it's from this: http://homepage2.nifty.com/Average/mirror/disk/d041.html. And there's bad Billy -- LOVE that guy! Great tune and a bitch of a brass section (Hannibal!). I've heard and seen guesses of other players being Harper, but for the life of me I don't see how anyone can make that particular error. So unique, if only in sound.

Track 7 - This is much more my speed. Fat Pharoah-like tone, but it's not him. Yeah, they're ripping of My Favorite Things, but I dig it. I don't think the piano is an A-List guy; the rhythm seems a little off at times (but I still dig it, kind of the way Carl Grubbs playing is sometimes). Not sure of the trumpet, again, not sure he's a big name; beautiful solo, though. I love the simplicity employed (much like McCoy's piano solo on MFT). The saxophonist reminds me a lot of Bjorn Almgren.

Track 8 - This sounds very similar to one of the albums I included on my BFT -- Tomasz Stanko, another guy I'm only recently getting familiar with. At times this guy flirts with Kenny Wheeler, but I don't think it's him. I'll throw Stanko out as a guess. This is a little tamer than what I lean towards, but still, I like this a lot.

Track 9 - This has the flavor of either a jam or a pick-up band. Maybe even a bandstand (by a group member) recording. The drummers are bringing nothing to the party. The trap kit start to kick in a bit towards the middle of the trumpet solo, but it just doesn't seem to be clicking. No guesses.

Track 10 - Doesn't hit me. Jan Garbarek?

Track 11 - The sound reminds me of the Tapscott sessions, but the playing seems too frenetic, not rooted enough in the blues. Yet, the sound is dead on. I'll kick myself if it's HT and I don't get it. I'll chance it and guess Tapscott, but I'm not sure which volume.

[fent99]

First listen, no peaking. This is a nice test. A lot of the soprano didn't appeal to me, but there's an awful lot to like about this BFT. Thanks!

Track 1 - I like this a lot. I tend to prefer my sax quartets a little dirtier (like the WSQ), but this is quite beautiful and the vocals really give it a unique flavor. No idea who it is, but liking it a lot.

Track 2 - Sounds like Charles Lloyd to me. A bit more bite than his recent stuff, but definitely has that modern ECM sound (of course, I'm listening on phones). Definitely Charles. Not sure who the others are. I like this, though; so far you're two for two. Something about the bass is reminding me a great deal of Ron Carter, but that doesn't seem right at all. Okay, not during the solo. I'll take a shot in the dark: Miroslav Vitous? First track was a bit short, this one runs long around 13 minutes (just not a fan of slap guitar harmonics, though clearly, I'm in the minority based on the crowd reaction). Is it possible that that's Metheny?

Track 3 - No idea, but this one missed me completely.

Track 4 - I'm in. I swear I was listening to this recently. I recognize that crying melody. Love that tone. A bit like Billy Mitchell, but more forceful. I'm leaning Illinois Jacquet (a guy I'm only recently getting more familiar with). Some touches of Lockjaw, but not enough triplets.

Track 5 - This is so completely unfair -- I was listening to Lacy and Gil Evans yesterday, and no other soprano is going to please me at this point. This is pleasant, but the sax isn't really reaching me. Yeah, piano solo lost me, too.

Track 6 - Oh now, why would you go there? Actually, I'm digging the sinister bells. Ah! Yes! This is Gil Evans covering Billy Harper's Priestess. I think it's from this: http://homepage2.nifty.com/Average/mirror/disk/d041.html. And there's bad Billy -- LOVE that guy! Great tune and a bitch of a brass section (Hannibal!). I've heard and seen guesses of other players being Harper, but for the life of me I don't see how anyone can make that particular error. So unique, if only in sound.

Track 7 - This is much more my speed. Fat Pharoah-like tone, but it's not him. Yeah, they're ripping of My Favorite Things, but I dig it. I don't think the piano is an A-List guy; the rhythm seems a little off at times (but I still dig it, kind of the way Carl Grubbs playing is sometimes). Not sure of the trumpet, again, not sure he's a big name; beautiful solo, though. I love the simplicity employed (much like McCoy's piano solo on MFT). The saxophonist reminds me a lot of Bjorn Almgren.

Track 8 - This sounds very similar to one of the albums I included on my BFT -- Tomasz Stanko, another guy I'm only recently getting familiar with. At times this guy flirts with Kenny Wheeler, but I don't think it's him. I'll throw Stanko out as a guess. This is a little tamer than what I lean towards, but still, I like this a lot.

Track 9 - This has the flavor of either a jam or a pick-up band. Maybe even a bandstand (by a group member) recording. The drummers are bringing nothing to the party. The trap kit start to kick in a bit towards the middle of the trumpet solo, but it just doesn't seem to be clicking. No guesses.

Track 10 - Doesn't hit me. Jan Garbarek?

Track 11 - The sound reminds me of the Tapscott sessions, but the playing seems too frenetic, not rooted enough in the blues. Yet, the sound is dead on. I'll kick myself if it's HT and I don't get it. I'll chance it and guess Tapscott, but I'm not sure which volume.

Some good comments here so keep them up! I'd no idea I was so into the soprano...

You are right on Track 2 with Charles Lloyd but not the guitarist though. Totally on the money with Track 6. Its more the tune on Track 9 than the recording or the soloing and it is a bandstand recording and self release. You might have to kick yourself for Track 11...

c

[fent99]

Oh and I'm surprised no-one has id'd sax on Track 3

[BillF]

Oh and I'm surprised no-one has id'd sax on Track 3

Wayne Shorter?

[BillF]

Is it Ike Quebec on Track 4?

[fent99]

Oh and I'm surprised no-one has id'd sax on Track 3

Wayne Shorter?

Spot on!

Is it Ike Quebec on Track 4?

Though afraid not here...

[felser]

Finished my listen. I've learned to not spend that much effort trying to identify musicians (because I tend to embarrass myself too much sometimes), but rather to just hear and respond to the music.

1 - Very pretty, but I kept waiting for it to "start" and then it was over. I like having a rhythm section!

2 - Pleasant. I recognize the tune, but can't place it. The drummer had some cool crescendos. Don't like the guitar "effects", am not enamored of that sort of playing. To me, this one was nice but way outstayed it's welcome at almost 16 minutes.

3 - My least favorite on the disc. Don't kioke the dynamic with the keyboard stuff and all.

4 - Da blues, likely played by an expert of the genre. Good stuff.

5 - Really liked this. I'm not normally a big soprano guy (Colin, you must be!), but this was really good. Reminded me of the George Coleman/Richie Beirach duo CD, which I haven't listened to in 15-20 years.

6 - 70's Gil Evans, Billy Harper composition and solo. I LOVE Billy Harper! No one moves me musically like he does. Could definitely live without some of the electronics going on, but the cut is great anyways.

7 - Lovely. I'm sure this is something I know. Everything beautifully done, the composition, the soprano, the piano solo, the trumpet, the bass/drums. Perfect. Suspect they are all world class players, and that the rhythm section has worked together before. This is my favorite cut on the CD, even more than the Evans/Harper.

8 - Liked this a lot more than I would have thought. I don't "do" accordian, but this works well.

9 - good trumpet.

10 - Pretty, but more background music for me than anything.

11 - good piano.

[Big Al]

Okay, I've tried. I really really tried. I guess there's still a lotta month left and maybe reading the comments will put some different angles on this, but.... I have yet to make it all the way through one song without hitting the "next" button. Either because it's too noisy or too repetitive or it could be that I'm just being a pissy little jazz snob. But I'm not giving up, and hopefully by month's end, I'll have something more than "NMCOT™" and "DKDC™" and "WTF???"

[Hardbopjazz]

Track 1 reminds me of Donald Byrd's "I'm Tryin' to Get Home" session.

[Hot Ptah]

I love literally every song on this BFT. This is one of the most enjoyable and interesting BFTs of all time, to me. I am not having much luck identifying any of the musicians, except for Track #8, which I was able to identify by artist, composer and song. I am playing this BFT for pleasure in the car, repeatedly.

Big Al, did you get the same music that I did? It's interesting how different listeners can have such different reactions.

[Big Al]

I think so! Now that I've listened to it in a much better mood, well, some opinions have changed, others haven't, but as always the usual disclaimers apply with the added bonus that I have grains of salt free for the asking to anyone who wants to take anything I say below with them!

Track 1: No clue, but very pretty. I'd listen to this again. And again!

Track 2: Sounds like a Sonny Rollins-Jim Hall collaboration, but I can only take so much high-pitched squealing. OK, guitar solo has started, so I guess it wasn't all bad. BTW, is that Blackwell on drums? Jeez, now I know what Miles was talking about when he was waiting for Trane to get it all out of his system. Thing is, when this guy isn't trying to scream his guts out, he & the guitar player mesh quite beautifully, but then he starts goin' all apeshit and it gets painful. But here it is the 11:35 mark and I can't NOT skip to the next track! Curiosity has once again killed this kat! Another guitar solo, I hope this was fun to watch cuz it's just noise to me. Wait a minute: is this Pat Metheny? Been listening all this time and didn't even NOTICE??? I haven't been this flustered by a BFT track since JSngry put that long Weather Report track on his BFT ages ago and I thought it was live Styx!!!

Track 3: Was going along nicely until the soprano started exploring the upper reaches of his instrument, which is about as pleasurable as listening to a mezzo-soprano sing descant after descant at octaves so far out of her range.... eh, sorry about the rant. The harmonies between the saxes are nice, though!

Track 4: Ben Webster towards the end of his life? Sounds like him, but the cliches get in the way. Hey, Mr. Piano Player: enough with the trills, k? Even the drummer sounds like he's bored with the whole thing. Maybe in a different context this would work, but man, this one is about as interesting as.... well, reading my comments about it!

Track 5: Jeeeeeez, what is it with these people and their trills??? Y'know, the notes all make sense, but they seem jumbled, random, without thought. I mean, the solo is more melodic than the theme! How backwards is that? Ah geez, spoke too soon. Does every soprano player have to pay homage to Trane's "My Favorite Things" by playing 3,845,970 notes in the space of sixteen bars? And then the piano player forgets that he's NOT McCoy and starts banging the bejabbers outta his keys. {{{sigh}}} So much for trying to do this and not be a grouch about it.

Track 6: Ooooohhh, this does not sound promising. Oops, never mind: false alarm. Has kind of a big-band Headhunters feel to it. Alright, buckle me in, let's see where we go. Okay, it's Wayne, who I normally give a lotta slack to, but my goodness, this is starting to sound like a jazz tribute to Joe Satriani! Drums sound like Elvin, but the fidelity suggests something recent. Ah what the hell do I know? Sounds like a tribute to "Africa/Brass" with electric piano (which I am REALLY digging, BTW!) and the orchestrations are beautiful; sounds like the arranger took some notes from Dolphy! Getting a little too free-form for my tastes towards the end, but that electric piano coda is all kinds of nice! The flute swirls remind me of Claus Ogerman, a very nice touch!

Track 7: Ah, now this is very nice! If the soprano sax player is the leader, then I think it's pretty cool that he's the only one who doesn't solo. And I do like the trumpeter's tone! THIS is what I'm talking about: the value of a few well-placed notes! REALLY loving the piano comping, too. Gonna be VERY interested to find out who this is!

Track 8: Nice. Don't know that I'd come back to it, but I can sure find a heckuva lot more to enjoy in this track than gripe about, and at this point that's good enough for me!

Track 9: Ahhh! My kinda grooove! Love the brassy sassy tone of the trumpet!

Track 10: Whoa! This one just floated by on a cloud of absolute beauty! Actually serves as a nice segue into the next track...

Track 11: My first thought about thirty seconds in was , "Oh please please please PLEASE let this all be as beautiful as it started...." Which it was, BTW! Indescribably sublime until it got kinda noisy at around the 2:45 mark. Did a bumblebee fly into the studio? But then it settled down and my oh my what a DELIGHTFUL way to end the BFT! This track alone made it worth coming back for!

Glad I stuck it out! So, yeah Ptah: I'm pretty sure we got the same music!

Edited October 11, 2011 by Big Al

[Spontooneous]

OK, I'll try the first half for now:

1. I'm not a big fan of the recent trend of having a voice oo-ing along with the band. But this is well-done. The melody stands up to repetition. I wouldn't mind hearing more from this band and this composer.

2. I keep thinking Charles Lloyd, in good form. Beautiful head. An eclectic guitar solo by someone who's paid attention to Mr. Metheny but isn't him. The bass solo is very strong. On the second go-round, the tenor seems to change direction every chorus. Impressive.

3. A good waltz tune and a good performance. The soprano is a little bit florid, but it really works.

4. I know I've heard thiu! It's a Prestige or Swingville or Moodsville record, right? Al Sears? Jimmy Forrest? Jaws in a subdued mood? Such control of the horn! I'm gonna be really bothered by this until it's identified.

5. No guess, but I have a feeling I should be able to ID the tune if not the performer.

6. "Priestess" was ID'd earlier. Everybody should know about this wonderful album, even if Gil's trio of piccolos gives me severe "Stars and Stripes Forever" flashbacks.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Spontooneous

[jeffcrom]

I've listened to this music several times now, so it's time to weigh in. As usual, I haven't read anything in this thread.

1. That’s a beautiful sound at the beginning – saxophone section with soprano voice. As American presidential candidate Herman Cain would say, "I’ve got no facts to back this up," but this sounds like a movement from a longer piece. Nice writing, in any case.

2. The tenor player’s somewhat hollow sound seems very familiar to me, but I can’t come up with who it is. The guitar playing reminds me of John Scofield’s early style. In any case, this has good post-Coltrane playing all around. And the audience really appreciates it.

3. This is the title track from the album Something More by Buster Williams. I recognized Wayne Shorter right away, but it didn’t sound like a Shorter composition, and I pretty quickly figured out where it was from. Herbie Hancock’s occasional overly pretty synth sounds annoy me, but except for that, this is excellent music.

4. Wow – nice preaching! I feel like I should know who/what this is, but I don’t. I thoroughly enjoyed it, though.

5. Two very accomplished and imaginative players, whoever they are. I like the fact that they used this take, even though the soprano player stumbled a little when he went into the upper register. Jazz ain't supposed to be perfect.

6. This is from one of my favorite Gil Evans albums – Masabumi Kikuchi and Gil Evans, recorded in Tokyo in 1972. Evans brought over two of his soloists, Hannibal Peterson and Billy Harper, and made a record with a great Japanese band. The tune is Billy Harper’s “Priestess,” featuring the composer. I love the flute writing here; there’s a passage with alto flutes, later a piccolo section, then a section with bass flutes. Presumably that’s Kikuchi playing the piano solo; I don’t know which of the two Japanese alto players contributes the excellent alto solo. The great Masahiko Togashi is one of the drummers, I believe. Great, great, great!

7. Well, the soprano sax and trumpet are never heard at the same time, which makes me think that they’re played by the same person. And that makes me think of Ira Sullivan, who is accomplished on those instruments (and more), and who seems to have an affinity for ¾ time. This is good, although I wish he would have stretched out on the saxophone a little bit.

8. One of my favorite Carla Bley tunes, “Ida Lupino.” I don’t know this recording, but it sounds like it might be Enrico Rava on trumpet and Steve Swallow on one of the basses. Don’t know the accordionist. This is a good one.

9. What an odd-sounding recording job. A slightly odd piece, too. I like the fiery trumpet solo, even if the player sounds like his in the next room. The guitar and bass solos didn’t do as much for me. Or is that second solo played a six-string bass guitar or something like that? Anyway, this was probably my least favorite selection in the BFT, although it wasn’t bad.

10. John Surman in his “English countryside” mode, it sounds like. Beautiful soprano tone, and individual, too, on an instrument on which it is difficult to get an personal sound.

11. This develops in a very interesting way. It made a lot more sense to me when I listened a second time. I’ve got no idea who it is, but I’m looking forward to finding out more about it.

Good stuff - thanks for putting together this BFT.

[Big Al]

Okay, I'm definitely gonna have to look into the Buster Williams album.

[fent99]

Been away a couple of days will respond to all comments over the next few days!

Great to hear opinions!

[fent99]

Finished my listen. I've learned to not spend that much effort trying to identify musicians (because I tend to embarrass myself too much sometimes), but rather to just hear and respond to the music.

1 - Very pretty, but I kept waiting for it to "start" and then it was over. I like having a rhythm section!

2 - Pleasant. I recognize the tune, but can't place it. The drummer had some cool crescendos. Don't like the guitar "effects", am not enamored of that sort of playing. To me, this one was nice but way outstayed it's welcome at almost 16 minutes.

3 - My least favorite on the disc. Don't kioke the dynamic with the keyboard stuff and all.

4 - Da blues, likely played by an expert of the genre. Good stuff.

5 - Really liked this. I'm not normally a big soprano guy (Colin, you must be!), but this was really good. Reminded me of the George Coleman/Richie Beirach duo CD, which I haven't listened to in 15-20 years.

6 - 70's Gil Evans, Billy Harper composition and solo. I LOVE Billy Harper! No one moves me musically like he does. Could definitely live without some of the electronics going on, but the cut is great anyways.

7 - Lovely. I'm sure this is something I know. Everything beautifully done, the composition, the soprano, the piano solo, the trumpet, the bass/drums. Perfect. Suspect they are all world class players, and that the rhythm section has worked together before. This is my favorite cut on the CD, even more than the Evans/Harper.

8 - Liked this a lot more than I would have thought. I don't "do" accordian, but this works well.

9 - good trumpet.

10 - Pretty, but more background music for me than anything.

11 - good piano.

Cheers John, good comments

I seldom guess the artists either and have been pretty embarrassed not knowing things I think I know quite well

1. I'll give you that and it is a kind of prelude, maybe hard to guess since its not his usual singer.

2. It is long but I never tire of it somehow and it has a bit more bite than the studio version.

5. Glad you like this, he's great though not usually on soprano...

6. Thought you'd know this...

7. This might be a surprise to some, though local to BillF

Edited October 15, 2011 by fent99