Piano Trio Format No Longer Does It For Me

[Teasing the Korean]

I must have zillions of piano trio albums.

I have gotten to a point where this format, generally speaking, doesn't do it for me. I tend to like either solo piano, piano duos with bass or another instrument, or larger groups that include a piano trio as the rhythm section. The solo/duo albums allow for a certain amount of stretching out, introspection, and minimalism that I rarely encounter with trios. The larger groups allow for some changes in color and also include more interplay and a greater number of soloists.

Now, on larger group albums, I will say that I LOVE the piano trio passages where the piano is soloing. It is nice change of texture and mood. But on the trio albums, I keep waiting for another voice to come in, and it doesn't happen.

I even love the trio alums when you add a percussionist, like Erroll Garner and Red Garland sessions, and Herbie's "Inventions and Dimensions."

The two pianists that I listen to the most, overall, are Herbie Hancock and McCoy Tyner. I have some Tyner trios that I haven't spun in ages. I don't think I have any Herbie Trios, unless "Speak Like a Child" and the aforementioned "Inventions" count.

The piano trios that I come back to are by Randy Weston and, to a lesser degree, Ahmad Jamal.

Bill Evans used to be a favorite of mine, and I have dozens of his albums from all periods, but in recent years, when I try to listen, these albums no longer speak to me as they once did. But I still listen to the duos with Jim Hall.

Not sure what the point of my post is; I guess it's interesting that I play piano and worship all these pianists, but this classic setting holds little interest for me these days.

[JSngry]

If you want Herbie trios, there's plenty in Japan.

Although from waht you're saying, I don't think they'd hold much interest at this juncture.

[alocispepraluger102]

wondering if you tire of the trio format or the piano element of the trio.

i never tire of my evans(sometimes philly joe grates a little), garland, jamal, oscar, kelley, and bley piano trios

[John Tapscott]

Sometimes I find I just have to stay away from some music for a while, even music I greatly love, and just listen to other music for a while, could be days, weeks, even months. But when I come back again it always sounds fresh and better than ever to my ears. I could never be one of those people who listens exclusively to one (or primarily one) artist. Though it would be cheaper!!!

[Shawn]

Wait a couple years, your mood is likely to change.

[sonnymax]

The piano trio has continued to evolve since the 1960s. Perhaps you should listen to what some of the "newer" voices are saying. I certainly hear a lot that makes me want to come back for more.

[JSngry]

Maybe you need to redefine what is meant by "piano trio"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cre3HUf8zOg&playnext=1&list=PLF2A1FD9DA7E7E150

[alocispepraluger102]

MORTY-MORTY-MORTY

ALOC THIRSTS FOR SOME MORTY.

[Teasing the Korean]

The piano trio has continued to evolve since the 1960s. Perhaps you should listen to what some of the "newer" voices are saying. I certainly hear a lot that makes me want to come back for more.

I am admittedly more LP focused than I am CD focused, and even the CDs I tend to buy are things from the LP era.

[colinmce]

Strange, I was thinking about making this very same thread ...

I got to thinking about this the other day when I put on Walter Bishop Jr.'s Prestige trio date from 1965. I have heard him play with Miles, Jackie McLean and others, but for some reason I got the notion that he was a player in the line of Nichols, Waldron, Weston et al ... those Monk-ish hard-bop era players who brought an individual edge to the playing that kept it interesting. I found this was not the case. Which was not Walter Bishop's fault mind you, but it made me realize that I need there to be more than just melody and changes for me to appreciate piano trio music (at least in the p/b/d formation). I get this from players like Mal, Herbie Nichols, Don Pullen, Ahmad Jamal, Paul Bley, Marilynn Crispell. And I love Bill Evans, too. Beyond this, the music just feels like easy listening to me. Which I know it isn't, always. But I can't get that notion out of my head.

[ValerieB]

i can totally relate to what you're all saying. given that, when i've recently heard someone like Benny Green, Robert Glasper or Gerald Clayton in a trio, it's been a different story.

Edited August 27, 2011 by ValerieB

[JSngry]

Valerie - about Walter's trio date mentioned above, did he make that with "the market" in mind just a little bit? It seems to be a little bit at odds with the rest of his output as a leader, that's why I'm asking.

[greggery peccary]

Try as I might, I've never really warmed up to piano trios. I went through a Warren Bernhardt phase about 20 years ago, but all of the "great" ones (and I've tried 'em all) just fail to float my boat.

Such is the subjective nature of appreciating music/art.....

[ValerieB]

Valerie - about Walter's trio date mentioned above, did he make that with "the market" in mind just a little bit? It seems to be a little bit at odds with the rest of his output as a leader, that's why I'm asking.

sorry, i have no idea.

[AllenLowe]

just about Bish, though he adjusted his approach later on, his early work was sometimes uncannily like Bud Powell's in touch and time - no one, in my opinion, in that era, came closer to reaching that feeling (Dick Katz, btw, was the one who pointed this out to me). Great player from day one.

[Big Wheel]

So admittedly it has been a long time since I discussed this with my old teacher, but what sets Bishop apart is pretty inside baseball and unlikely to be noticed by the casual listener.

The gist of it is that Bishop was one of the earliest pianists to routinely use quartal voicings in the left hand, BUT unlike McCoy, never really adopted them within the context of a modal approach (side-slipping, pentatonic patterns in the right hand, etc.) Instead Bishop stuck more or less with Bud's melodic and harmonic vocabulary. By this I basically mean that the right hand does the bebop thing and the music is still revolving around ii-V-Is.

The result sounds a little bit brittle - because they often lack a 7th or 3rd, the left-hand voicings "pull" the listener less from chord to chord compared to the Wynton Kelly/Bill Evans left-hand voicings (like the ubiquitous 3rd/13th/b7th/9th you'll see all the time on dominant chords). But there's a tension here because the underlying harmony and the melodic lines (again, coming more-or-less straight from bop) actually do have lots of this tendency.

If you're expecting Bishop to sound like Monk or Andrew Hill or Herbie Nichols, you're going to be disappointed. Monk's music sounds different because the harmony itself is different - you have all kinds of crazy altered extensions (let's not even get into the ways Monk was a genius at controlling the dynamics of each note in a chord the way he wanted). Herbie Nichols sounds different for the same fundamental reason - there's a very twisted approach to harmony and rhythm even though you're dealing mostly with simpler chords than Monk used. Bishop isn't like that; the differences are much more subtle because his overall approach fits sort of in the middle of the continuum that Bud started and Herbie/McCoy really fleshed out (and everyone else copied).

Edited August 28, 2011 by Big Wheel

[colinmce]

That's very interesting. Thanks for posting.

[Larry Kart]

That's very interesting. Thanks for posting.

Yes, indeed.

[Michael Weiss]

just about Bish, though he adjusted his approach later on, his early work was sometimes uncannily like Bud Powell's in touch and time - no one, in my opinion, in that era, came closer to reaching that feeling (Dick Katz, btw, was the one who pointed this out to me). Great player from day one.

Listen to Kenny Drew with Bird.

[DukeCity]

Maybe you need to redefine what is meant by "piano trio"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cre3HUf8zOg&playnext=1&list=PLF2A1FD9DA7E7E150

Wow. That's VERY different from the Marty Feldman piano trio I was thinking of...

[AllenLowe]

Kenny Drew was great, but Bish still had something closer to Bud - and the period I am referring to is from BEFORE his quartal voicing - I mean the stuff from the early 1950s, Prestige and, I think, a little later, Verve.