Bags on Guitar; Klook on Vibes !!!!???

[medjuck]

Listening to the Milt Jackson/Ray Charles sides the other day and noticed that Jackson plays guitar on "Bags' Guitar Blues"? Are there other recorded examples of his guitar playing. Also I heard something on the radio the other day with Kenny Clark

on vibes. it was pretty good. Are there many examples of that?

(I was listening to the Charles/Jackson because, after listening to the Mosaic MJQ box, I wanted to hear some unfettered Bags without John Lewis behind him. Maybe because the booklet made several references to Jackson's complaints about Lewis's playing counterpoint, Lewis's comping seemed just too busy for me. It was as if he was soloing along with Jackson and then he would get to take his own-- often surprisingly funky solo-- without any interference.)

[BillF]

Also I heard something on the radio the other day with Kenny Clark

on vibes. it was pretty good. Are there many examples of that?

I recently read a biography of Klook and recall that vibes was a big thing with him in his early days, but that he gave up in the face of Bags' superior talent. (They were together in the Gillespie outfit, of course.) People interviewed for the book ascribed Klook's "understanding" as a drummer to what was going on to his ability to play other instruments, vibes included.

[jazztrain]

If memory serves, there are some early sides (late thirties) with Kenny Clark playing vibes with Edgar Hayes.

Also I heard something on the radio the other day with Kenny Clark

on vibes. it was pretty good. Are there many examples of that?

I recently read a biography of Klook and recall that vibes was a big thing with him in his early days, but that he gave up in the face of Bags' superior talent. (They were together in the Gillespie outfit, of course.) People interviewed for the book ascribed Klook's "understanding" as a drummer to what was going on to his ability to play other instruments, vibes included.

[fasstrack]

(I was listening to the Charles/Jackson because, after listening to the Mosaic MJQ box, I wanted to hear some unfettered Bags without John Lewis behind him. Maybe because the booklet made several references to Jackson's complaints about Lewis's playing counterpoint, Lewis's comping seemed just too busy for me. It was as if he was soloing along with Jackson and then he would get to take his own-- often surprisingly funky solo-- without any interference.)

That's kind of curious, because Lewis's comping for Bird was some of the best there was. He (like Jimmy Bunn, a life saver on the ill-fated Lover Man date) did some of the best set up and back up work for Parker, especially on Barbados and Parker's Mood. The intros especially were brilliant.

I think he got very into Bach in the MJQ phase, hence the counterpoint. I also think Bags' objection was a general one to such careful, restrained music when he could swing and blues his ass off. He felt very hemmed in and I can dig it. Naturally, Bags and Ray Charles is a marriage made in heaven. Generally, though, John Lewis is a sparse comper and great listener. And I love his writing. I could see Bags getting pissed off, but I dug the MJQ anyway. A class act all the way and successful, so good on them and good on John Lewis.

As far as doublers go---if not on those specific instruments---there's Les Spann (guitar/flute); Don Thompson (bass, piano, possibly vibes); the late Buddy Montgomery (piano, vibes); the late Victor Feldman (piano, vibes, drums); Ira Sullivan (what doesn't he play?). It's really not that uncommon among musicians. (for studio players it's almost expected and doubling, especially across 'groups' has made some players a pretty penny---at least when there was a studio scene) Back to jazz: I used to play with Pat Patrick and Eddie Diehl and Pat would put his tenor down and play pretty decent Fender bass behind us. And there are plenty more.

[jlhoots]

I believe Bags played piano also.

[BillF]

I believe Bags played piano also.

Indeed he did! Love his firm comping behind Fats Navarro and Howard McGhee on the "Double Take" session on The Fabulous Fats Navarro Blue Note album. On Kenny Clarke's Telefunken Blues album Bags is on piano (including solos) for four tracks, together with Basieites Henry Coker, Frank Wess, Charlie Fowlkes and Eddie Jones.

[EKE BBB]

If memory serves, there are some early sides (late thirties) with Kenny Clark playing vibes with Edgar Hayes.

These are those sessions:

[H3444] Add Edgar Hayes

David "Jelly" James (tb) replaces Joe Britton, Kenny Clarke (d,vib-2) Ruth Ellington, Bernard Flood (vcl)

New York, July 27, 1937

62450-A Laughing at life (bf vcl) De 1416, Swingfan (G)1003, Coral (G)6.22419,

Classics (F)730 [CD]

62451-A High, wide and handsome (re vcl) De 1382, Br (E)02482, Classics (F)730 [CD]

62452-A Satan takes a holiday [spooky takes a holiday]

(2) De 1382, Br (E)02482, Swingfan (G)1003, Coral

(G)6.22419, Classics (F)730 [CD]

[H3446]Add Edgar Hayes

Edgar Hayes And His Orchestra : Bernard Flood (tp,vcl) Henry Goodwin, Leonard Davis (tp) Bob Horton, Clyde Bernhardt, David "Jelly" James (tb) Rudy Powell (cl,as) Roger Boyd (as) Crawford Wethington, Joe Garland (ts) Edgar Hayes (p) Andy Jackson (g) Elmer James (b) Kenny Clarke (d,vib-2) Bill Darnell (vcl)

New York, October 11, 1937

62675-A Queen Isabella De 1527, Swingfan (G)1003, Coral (G)6.22419

62676-A Old King Cole - - -

62677-A Shindig (bd vcl) 2048 -

62678 Let's love (bd vcl) 1665

62679-A I know now (bd vcl,1) 1509

62680 Sweetheart (1) 1684 -

62681-A When you and I were young, Maggie (bd vcl,1) 1509 -

Note: Edgar Hayes Quintet on (1) : Rudy Powell (cl) Edgar Hayes (p) Andy Jackson (g) Elmer James (b) Kenny Clarke (d) Bill Darnell (vcl).

All above titles also on Classics (F)730 [CD].

[H3447]Add Edgar Hayes

Edgar Hayes And His Orchestra : Leonard Davis, Bernard Flood, Henry Goodwin (tp) Bob Horton, Clyde Bernhardt, David "Jelly" James (tb) Rudy Powell (cl,as) Roger Boyd (as) William Mitchner (ts) Joe Garland (ts,bar) Edgar Hayes (p) Eddie Gibbs (g) Frank "Coco" Darling (b) Kenny Clarke (d,vib) Earlene Howell, James Anderson (vcl)

New York, January 14, 1938

63157-A Meet the band De 1940, Swingfan (G)1003, Coral (G)6.22419

63158-A Fugitive from a harem 1748 -

63159-A Swingin' in the promised land De 1665, Br (G)87095, Masters Of Jazz (F)MJCD807

[CD]

63160-A Barbary Coast blues (eh vcl, kc vib) De 1940, Swingfan (G)1003, Coral (G)6.22419

Note: Masters of Jazz (F)MJCD807 [CD] titled "Anthology Of Jazz Drumming, volume 4, 1938".

All above titles also on Classics (F)730 [CD].

[H3448] Add Edgar Hayes

Clyde Bernhardt (vcl)

New York, February 17, 1938

63294-A Help me (kc vib) De 2193, Swingfan (G)1003, Coral (G)6.22419

63295-A Without you (cb vcl) - - -

63296-A You're my first thought every morning (ja vcl) 2048

63297-A In the mood 1882, Coral (G)6.22419, Br (G)87098, Memoir

(E)CDMOIR507 [CD]

63298-A Star dust De 1882, Coral (G)6.22419

63299-A Sophisticated swing De 1748, Coral (G)6.22419, Swingfan (G)1003

Note: Memoir (E)CDMOIR507 [CD] titled "Harlem Joys"; remainder of this CD by others.

All above titles also on Classics (F)1053 [CD] titled "Edgar Hayes, 1938-1948"; see flwg sessions to 1949 and Kenny Clarke for rest of CD.

And the latest example I've found of Klook playing vibes, from 1939:

[b4681]Add Sidney Bechet

Inedits Vol 1 : Sidney Bechet (sop-1,cl-2,vcl) Sonny White (p) or Don Frye (p) Ernest Wilson Myers (b,vcl) or Stubby Sebastian (b,vcl) Kenny Clarke (d,vib-4)

Live performance,"Log Cabin", Fonda, New York, November 25, 1939

Dear old southland (1,*) Nec Plus Ultra/Vogue (F)VG405/502001

Blues (sb vcl)(a) -

Fonda blues (sb vcl,2,*) -

(Medley: ) -

What's new ? (*) -

To you (ss or ewm vcl,*) -

Bugle call rag (take 1) (*) AACJG 102, -

Bugle call rag (take 2) -

The Sheik of Araby (2,4,*) -

Limehouse blues -

Pop it (3 false starts) Masters of Jazz (F)MJCD76 [CD]

Pop it (ss or ewm vcl,2,4,*) Nec Plus Ultra/Vogue (F)VG405/502001

Note: AACJG = Arkansas Arts Center Jazz Gems. This was a fund raising LP with just two titles on it (see next session also)

(*) These 7 titles also on Music Memoria (F)30332 [CD].

All above titles also on Masters of Jazz (F)MJCD76 [CD] titled "Sidney Bechet, Volume 6, 1939"; see flwg session and Haitian Orchestra for rest of CD.

[mikeweil]

Elvin Jones played guitar on one of his Impulse LPs, IIRC ...

Cal Tjader played vibes, drums, piano, timbales, bongos and some conga, too.

Victor Feldman, same list of instruments.

Bags' piano playing was chords for comping and two finger style for soloing, like Hamp.

[colinmce]

Let's not forget Eddie Costa, who I think is a rare player that was utterly distinctive on both vibes and piano.

[BillF]

Bags' piano playing was chords for comping and two finger style for soloing, like Hamp.

I think this seriously understates Bags' abilities as a piano player. On the Telefunken Blues tracks he can be heard competently managing a piano style which owes something to Horace Silver. There's no sign of the two-finger style (using one finger of each hand) which Hamp and Terry Gibbs used.

[mikeweil]

I will have a re-listen this evening ...

[medjuck]

So are there other recorded examples of Bags on guitar?

[mikeweil]

Back to Klook: His debut as a leader were four sides for Swedish Odeon, recorded during a stay of the Edgar Hayes band in Stockholm on March 8, 1938. They were included on the "Special Kenny Clarke" CD of the French EMI Jazz Time series (# 46), and on the second Chronological Classics CD of Edgar Hayes, 1938-1948 - EKE BBB didn't list them as they were under Clarke's name.

Kenny Clarke's Kvintett: Henry Goodwin tp; Rudy Powell cl, as; Edgar Hayes p; Eddie Gibbs g; Frank "coco" Darling b; Kenneth S. Clarke xyl, dr;

Once In A While / I've Found A New Baby / You're A Sweetheart / Sweet Sue

[mjzee]

All 4 1938 titles can also be found on this Proper release:

[king ubu]

Bags is also on piano, of course, on Barney Wilen's great "Jazz sur Seine"!

[The Rep]

A few other changes of instrument, Ben Webster playing piano on bonus tracks on Soulville cd. Earlier Stan Tracey recordings will find him on vibes and Tubby Hayes plays Alto, Tenor and Bari as well as flute and ofcourse Vibes.

[king ubu]

And Victor Feldman is the other (other than Eddie Costa, that is) piano/vibes doubler that is equally proficient on both instruments (he was also a drummer, of course).