Complete Wes Montgomery on Verve

[Eric]

Full details now on the Hip-o Select site.

Slightly more thorough track listing here.

I like the cover art. It is also nice how they sequenced it ... no album "bleeds" over to the next disc.

The last 3-4 songs on disc 5 define "filler" (the "with strings" versions of the Half Note tracks ... guess you need 'em to be "complete")

[B. Goren.]

Isn't it a bit expensive for 5 CDs set?

[jazzbo]

I don't know, I LIKE the overdubbed Half Note tunes.

But I'm passing on this, at least for now. I have almost all of it in nice enough versions to hang onto.

[mikeweil]

Thanks for the links - no new discoveries, and they include the overdubbed versions of the Half Note recordings on disc 5. Except for one alternate take all sessions are kept together - nicely done. I think this will be my Xmas gift from my wife ...

Only complaint: I would have preferred the Jimmy and Wes sessions sorted by session, first the combo, then the big band tracks. As these two albums are spread over discs four and five, I will have to keep my burned discs in session order.

Edited September 2, 2011 by mikeweil

[gmonahan]

I'm blowing hot and cold on this one. Verve did a fine 2-cd compilation years ago ("The Jazz Sides on Verve"), and I have several of the individual cds, but I don't have the Jimmy Smith stuff. And it's spendy. Hmmmmmm.

gregmo

[mikeweil]

I'm reconsidering - comparing the track lists linked above showed there might be a track missing on this set - I'm shocked!

The posthumous Willow Weep For Me LP included a live version of Four On Six (running 9:30 as compared to the 6:43 of the studio version) that was reissued on the double CD The Verve Jazz Sides - but I cannot find this on the box set track lists ...

That twofer CD also included a second, re-edited version of The Surrey with the fringe on top which is a minute longer. And, IIRC, a Wynton Kelly trio track, Blues on Purpose, also belongs to these sessions.

Now why can't they do anything right?!?!

Edited September 3, 2011 by mikeweil

[mikeweil]

Seriously - I have the Jimmy Smith sides - re-burned in session order as I like it a lot better this way - as well as the live and studio material with Wynton Kelly on the Verve Jazz Sides twofer, and I have single CDs of Tequila (with bonus tracks) and Movin' - so do I really need this if it's not complete and the sides with Smith are spread over two discs so I cannot re-program?

They should have re-sequenced in session order, then they would have noticed.

[ejp626]

so do I really need this if it's not complete and the sides with Smith are spread over two discs so I cannot re-program?

...

You sound like a man trying hard to convince himself not to do something he'll regret later. But that he knows he'll do anyway.

I have essentially everything, except for the bonus material on Disc 5, and there is no appeal at all for me for this set. Don't have to talk myself down or nothing. Now the Jazz at the Hollywood Bowl set on the other hand seems to be calling my name...

[mikeweil]

I'm simply disappointed. I listened to the missing tracks, and they're good - like anything Wes recorded live. The music I still do not have is the more commercial stuff that I won't listen to very often. I have Movin' and rarely play it.

I think I'll rather ask forsomething else for Xmas ...

Edited September 28, 2011 by mikeweil

[jazzbo]

Now the Jazz at the Hollywood Bowl set on the other hand seems to be calling my name...

Respond to the call. A lovely set! Everyone is ON.

[ejp626]

Now the Jazz at the Hollywood Bowl set on the other hand seems to be calling my name...

Respond to the call. A lovely set! Everyone is ON.

I'm almost certain I will. Main issue is whether I go the dl route (much cheaper on Amazon and I am very tired of hauling plastic around the country) or get the booklet and photos that come with the physical product. If anyone has dl'ed it, let me know the bitrate. Thanks. \

For that matter, if this set is ever completely or partially available as MP3s, I might dl some of the bonus material, but the rest I already have.

[mikeweil]

Back to Wes: I looked into the data of the Half Note recordings and it's a discographical mess. Obviously Creed Taylor was dissatisfied with the sound of the live recordings, that may have been the main reason why he had Wes and the Wynton Kelly Trio record three studio tracks a couple of months after the club date. The first LP Smokin' At The Half Note released these three and only two live tracks. The next LP Willow Weep For Me released four more, but with overdubbed orchestra to veil the inferior sound, and four unreleased studio tracks from previous sessions. More unreleased live tracks and the first two and the four without overdubs later appeared on the Verve twofer The Small Group Recordings and two Japanese Smokin' At The Half Note LPs (vol. 1 & 2 - the four studio tracks from the Willow Weep For Me LP plus four more unreleased tracks were on another Japanese LP release Just Walkin'). All of these plus a re-edited version of The Surrey With The Fringe On Top (radio announcements were removed etc. on the initially released version) were included on the Verve double CD The Verve Jazz Sides.

Listening to the Half Note tracks it is not hard to understand why Taylor was not happy with the audio quality ... often the guitar is too low in the mix, etc.

To me, the best solution would have been one live CD with the complete Half Note tracks, and five with all studio material in recording order, or if in LP sequence, at least with the sessions intact on one CD. IMO sequencing CDs after LPs is pure nostalgia, which often results in not using some capabilities of the different medium. Some day the old fans remembering the LPs will be all gone - what then? Just my opinion, of course.

[gmonahan]

Back to Wes: I looked into the data of the Half Note recordings and it's a discographical mess. Obviously Creed Taylor was dissatisfied with the sound of the live recordings, that may have been the main reason why he had Wes and the Wynton Kelly Trio record three studio tracks a couple of months after the club date. The first LP Smokin' At The Half Note released these three and only two live tracks. The next LP Willow Weep For Me released four more, but with overdubbed orchestra to veil the inferior sound, and four unreleased studio tracks from previous sessions. More unreleased live tracks and the first two and the four without overdubs later appeared on the Verve twofer The Small Group Recordings and two Japanese Smokin' At The Half Note LPs (vol. 1 & 2 - the four studio tracks from the Willow Weep For Me LP plus four more unreleased tracks were on another Japanese LP release Just Walkin'). All of these plus a re-edited version of The Surrey With The Fringe On Top (radio announcements were removed etc. on the initially released version) were included on the Verve double CD The Verve Jazz Sides.

Listening to the Half Note tracks it is not hard to understand why Taylor was not happy with the audio quality ... often the guitar is too low in the mix, etc.

To me, the best solution would have been one live CD with the complete Half Note tracks, and five with all studio material in recording order, or if in LP sequence, at least with the sessions intact on one CD. IMO sequencing CDs after LPs is pure nostalgia, which often results in not using some capabilities of the different medium. Some day the old fans remembering the LPs will be all gone - what then? Just my opinion, of course.

LP sequencing can be important if the artist and the producers meant the LP to be sequenced that way, if, in other words, they were consciously creating a concept. I'm thinking here of Sinatra's concept albums, but there have been others. If that's the case, reshuffling the music into precise recording order reeks havoc with the original intention, and I do have problems with that. I'm not arguing that's the case here. The Half Note stuff has always been problematic.

gregmo

[mikeweil]

The Half Note stuff has always been problematic.

That's the one aspect that probably everybody agrees on.

I don't say I have the perfect solution. If everything was included I would buy the set and prgram my player, or burn my own sequences. But I am not a fan of post-production, especially not when live recordings are concerned.

Edited September 4, 2011 by mikeweil

[crisp]

Good-ish (for a Hip-o) prices at Amazon UK (£59.87) and Amazon France (55,79 euros) right now.

[crisp]

Now £51.70 at Amazon UK. How low will it go I wonder.

[crisp]

Now up again to £67.24, sadly. I shan't post any more changes unless it gets very low. One to keep an eye on I think.

[Big Al]

Back to Wes: I looked into the data of the Half Note recordings and it's a discographical mess. Obviously Creed Taylor was dissatisfied with the sound of the live recordings, that may have been the main reason why he had Wes and the Wynton Kelly Trio record three studio tracks a couple of months after the club date. The first LP Smokin' At The Half Note released these three and only two live tracks. The next LP Willow Weep For Me released four more, but with overdubbed orchestra to veil the inferior sound, and four unreleased studio tracks from previous sessions.

Which tracks are these? I thought all the tracks from Willow were live, some with and some without overdubs.

[RiRiIII]

Now up again to £67.24, sadly. I shan't post any more changes unless it gets very low. One to keep an eye on I think.

£102.34 now at amazon.co.uk, believe it or not!

[king ubu]

put in a pre-order with amazon.fr:

https://www.amazon.fr/Movin-Complete-Verve-Studio-Recordings/dp/B005CAAUGM/

[mikeweil]

Back to Wes: I looked into the data of the Half Note recordings and it's a discographical mess. Obviously Creed Taylor was dissatisfied with the sound of the live recordings, that may have been the main reason why he had Wes and the Wynton Kelly Trio record three studio tracks a couple of months after the club date. The first LP Smokin' At The Half Note released these three and only two live tracks. The next LP Willow Weep For Me released four more, but with overdubbed orchestra to veil the inferior sound, and four unreleased studio tracks from previous sessions.

Which tracks are these? I thought all the tracks from Willow were live, some with and some without overdubs.

Sorry Al, you're right and I was mistaken - all are from the Half Note, "Willow", "Misty" and "Crazy Moon" with overdubs.

That LP also icluded the live take of "Four On Six" that's missing in the new box .

Edited September 28, 2011 by mikeweil

[RiRiIII]

55EUR at jpc.de

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/jazz/detail/-/art/Wes-Montgomery-1925-1968-Movin-Complete-Verve-Recordings/hnum/9687639

[Big Al]

Back to Wes: I looked into the data of the Half Note recordings and it's a discographical mess. Obviously Creed Taylor was dissatisfied with the sound of the live recordings, that may have been the main reason why he had Wes and the Wynton Kelly Trio record three studio tracks a couple of months after the club date. The first LP Smokin' At The Half Note released these three and only two live tracks. The next LP Willow Weep For Me released four more, but with overdubbed orchestra to veil the inferior sound, and four unreleased studio tracks from previous sessions.

Which tracks are these? I thought all the tracks from Willow were live, some with and some without overdubs.

Sorry Al, you're right and I was mistaken - all are from the Half Note, "Willow", "Misty" and "Crazy Moon" with overdubs.

That LP also icluded the live take of "Four On Six" that's missing in the new box .

Another interesting tidbit: the track-list for the Half Note tracks in the current box is the exact same track-list as the Smokin' at the Half Note VME from a few years back. I agree it's a shame that this particular "Four On Six" couldn't have been substituted for any one of the alternate takes on disc 5; I mean, even the fans of Willow Weep for Me won't even be able to reconstruct the album they're used to.

That said, though, I'm still of the opinion that this is gonna be the best place to get all the Wes Verve in one fell swoop, and if I didn't already have it all to begin with, I'd get this collection.

[mikeweil]

There's a blog in German language: http://wesmontgomery.de/

I find his discographical meanderings typical German jazz enthusiast style, not very deep or thoroughly researched, but he posts some nice videos and photos, and even a link to a rare Wes live recording.

[JohnJ]

put in a pre-order with amazon.fr:

https://www.amazon.fr/Movin-Complete-Verve-Studio-Recordings/dp/B005CAAUGM/

Might be worth cancelling and pre-ordering with Amazon Italy!

http://www.amazon.it/Movin-Complete-Verve-Studio-Recordings/dp/B005CAAUGM/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1317794847&sr=1-1