Is Somebody Kidding?

[AllenLowe]

I have heard Regina Carter in 2 contexts - playing Lady Be Good with Ray Brown - and at Newport with her pseudo-World music band. Couldn't believe my ears, as she is a McCarthur recipient who -

1) plays "straight ahead" with a boring predictability and pseudo-blues inflections of the kind that Miles rightly used to put down

2) plays 'world music' with dull patterns on the fiddle and no expansion of form, with a slick predictability that is shocking in one so highly touted.

even given my low expectations of the music world, I am truly shocked at how mediocre this stuff is.

[Unk]

She plays a lot better on Il Cannone Guarnerius. I'm joking, of course.

[Larry Kart]

My already low hopes have been dashed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j9JOYtWpr0

[AllenLowe]

she plays like she belongs to the Luke Warm Club of France.

[kh1958]

Previous Regina Carter bashing/anti-bashing thread.

[AllenLowe]

ironically or not, Wein is about 5 times better as a soloist than she is -

for that style, Andy Stein plays better standing on his head.

[jlhoots]

Her playing has declined as her fame has increased.

[Royal Oak]

she plays like she belongs to the Luke Warm Club of France.

[Chuck Nessa]

I'm sure she has skills. I just don't care about these skills at this point. Not her fault.

[AllenLowe]

if she hadn't won a McArthur I would be less appalled - and her "world music" group is just this shy of New Age shallow. She sounds like a talented amateur. Yikes. This one really has shaken my confidence in the Foundation world -

[Larry Kart]

if she hadn't won a McArthur I would be less appalled - and her "world music" group is just this shy of New Age shallow. She sounds like a talented amateur. Yikes. This one really has shaken my confidence in the Foundation world -

You had confidence in it? Why?

[AllenLowe]

sorry, my sarcasm didn't come through. I couldn't find an appropriate face - maybe this one woulda worked -

[Van Basten II]

Previous Regina Carter bashing/anti-bashing thread.

http://www.organissi...__1#entry469078

Forgot this one

[Larry Kart]

Check out Johnny Frigo (one of the composers, along with Herb Ellis and Lou Carter, of "Detour Ahead"). Frigo's way with the jazz violin was not the only way, but I like it a lot:

http://www.npr.org/search/index.php?programId=24&prgTitle=Piano+Jazz&searchinput=johnny+frigo

At the time of this encounter with Marian McPartland, he was a mere 81.

[Hot Ptah]

if she hadn't won a McArthur I would be less appalled - and her "world music" group is just this shy of New Age shallow. She sounds like a talented amateur. Yikes. This one really has shaken my confidence in the Foundation world -

You had confidence in it? Why?

Regina Carter is not the most questionable recipient of a MacArthur grant. I have found her to be an engaging enough soloist, pleasant and sometimes exciting. She is not a font of creative inspiration, not a wellspring of original jazz conception.

She is one of those jazz musicians who might be better off as a sideman to a leader with a strong vision--IF there were any leaders like that still performing and recording on an ongoing basis, so that a soloist could make a living supporting them. In the absence of a scene like that, what is a soloist to do? Sit at home with blankets over their head, pining for the days when there were more varied opportunities for a violin soloist?

My first exposure to her was memorable, in a Blindfold Test kind of way. She was an unannounced member of the Steve Turre group at an outdoor festival in Kansas City. Midway through her first extended solo, I was thinking, "wow! who IS this?" Her solo was genuinely exciting, and really good.

I have seen her lead groups in concert, but not for a few years. Those concerts were more memorable to me than some of her albums. She doesn't always make the best albums.

I don't think that she is worthy of scorn. She is at a certain level of jazz performance, and you either like it or not. She does not talk in an obnoxious fashion about how great she is, or how wise her opinions about jazz are--there is none of that with her. She can't help it if a foundation decided to give her a bunch of money--who wouldn't take it if it fell in their lap?

Edited August 7, 2011 by Hot Ptah

[mracz]

She plays very well on a Mark Helias CD from some years ago called Loopin' the Cool, sharing the front line with Ellery Eskelin. I remember some fine playing on one of the String Trio of New York albums, but also an unimpressive Atlantic debut CD as leader (I think there was a version of Lady Be Good along with some weak soul/fusion tracks). As Ptah said, not everyone is cut out to be a leader...

[Big Beat Steve]

So this would amount to what at other times music scribes have described as "journeyman musicians"?

[Hot Ptah]

I don't know that I would be as negative as to call her a journeyman musician. I have seen her lead small acoustic jazz groups in concert which I found engaging and at times exciting. Her solos on those evenings ranged from enjoyable to exciting.

She has a modest, self-effacing, friendly, appealing stage personality, which makes her easy to present in a jazz subscription series out there in America somewhere. There have been other musicians who reaped a career benefit from their stage personality, in terms of getting more gigs than more gifted musicians who were negative and gloomy toward the audience. That is not new with Regina Carter.

I think that she does some genuinely fine recorded work on her "Rhythms of the Heart" and "Motor City Moments" albums, on the "Freefall" album which she co-led with Kenny Barron, and on James Carter's "Chasin' the Gypsy".

I remember that when I was first getting into jazz, I was quite impressed with the playing of Joe Farrell on albums led by Elvin Jones, Jaki Byard, and others. Then I got two of his CTI albums under his own name and concluded that he should not be a leader. The truth is probably not that simple--nor is it with Regina Carter.

Now if Joe Farrell in 1972 had been given a windfall huge sum of money by a foundation, which he did not solicit, would many have hated him, because it should have gone to Dexter Gordon or Harry Carney or some other, more worthy saxophonist?

Edited August 9, 2011 by Hot Ptah

[JSngry]

Two things -

1. "Journeyman", in the true sense, while certainly not high praise, should not be considered a negative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman
2. I'm pretty sure that there "solicitations" for almost all grants. Perhaps not by directly by the artists, but definitely by "those on their behalf".

[Hot Ptah]

I'm pretty sure that there "solicitations" for almost all grants. Perhaps not by directly by the artists, but definitely by "those on their behalf".

From the MacArthur Foundation website:

"How Fellows are Chosen

Each year, the MacArthur Fellows Program invites new nominators on the basis of their expertise, accomplishments, and breadth of experience. They are encouraged to nominate the most creative people they know within their field and beyond. Nominators are chosen from as broad a range of fields and areas of interest as possible. At any given time, there are usually more than one hundred active nominators.

Nominations are evaluated by an independent Selection Committee composed of about a dozen leaders in the arts, sciences, humanities professions, and for-profit and nonprofit communities. Each nomination is considered with respect to the program's selection criteria, based on the nomination letter along with original works of the nominee and evaluations from other experts collected by the program staff.

After a thorough, multi-step review, the Selection Committee makes its recommendations to the President and board of directors of the MacArthur Foundation. Announcement of the annual list is usually made in September. While there are no quotas or limits, typically 20 to 30 Fellows are selected each year. Between June of 1981 and September of 2010, 828 Fellows have been named.

Nominators, evaluators, and selectors all serve anonymously and their correspondence is kept confidential. This policy enables participants to provide their honest impressions independent of outside influence.

The Fellows Program does not accept applications or unsolicited nominations."

[JSngry]

Well, that makes for good copy, but...let's just say that I'd be significantly more shocked to find out that the process really was that "anonymous" than i would be to find out that there's all kinds of opportunities to "make a play" along the way.

It's money, big money (relatively speaking), and there are careers involved, as well as people who represent those careers. Ain't no "accidents" going to come out of that mix, imo.

Somebody be lobbying somebody somewhere, bet on it.

[Hot Ptah]

Well, that makes for good copy, but...let's just say that I'd be significantly more shocked to find out that the process really was that "anonymous" than i would be to find out that there's all kinds of opportunities to "make a play" along the way.

It's money, big money (relatively speaking), and there are careers involved, as well as people who represent those careers. Ain't no "accidents" going to come out of that mix, imo.

Somebody be lobbying somebody somewhere, bet on it.

We don't know how Regina Carter got her Mac Arthur grant, just as we don't know how young ragtime pianist, and Delmark recording artist, Reginald Robinson, got his, or how Jason Moran recently got his.

In my opinion, the receipt of a Mac Arthur grant should not color an evaluation of an artist's merit, but I thought that there was some mention of it in the first post in this thread, so I mentioned it too.

[JSngry]

No, I applaud anybody who can get that kind of dough, really. And the MacArthur foundation does show an admirable tendency to recognize the under-exposed (relative to the general concept of "exposed" any way).

I'm just skeptical, terminally skeptical, actually, that the process operates in a total vacuum devoid of any and all "outside influence". That would defy damn near every trait of human behavior, especially of those humans involved in "the arts".

No proof, though, so maybe it is really all that. Would be nice if it was.

[alocispepraluger102]

i would like to hear her peers opinions of her, when they were sitting at the bar.

foundation awards are little more than politics and skillful grant application writing.

i remember a very very moving interview several years ago when she was discussing her need to get a really good violin.

one cannot but like and admire regina, the person.

Edited August 10, 2011 by alocispepraluger102

[AllenLowe]

she may be capable of very good playing - it's that Newport broadcast of "world" music - just shallow stuff, with not a clue of how to make that kind of music interesting. I found it offensive.