NIS Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 As someone attending the birth of a grandchild in the last week, I think this thread should not be stopped. Mr. Nessa, This is going off topic of the thread but oh well. Congratulations. We are about to take a trip for our grandaughter's first birthday. I can tell you that your blessing will just keep getting better and better. Nothing like it on many different levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unk Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 Forgive me for posting. as much as i understand why this thread is here, i want to voice my opinion that i am uncomfortable with its existence on the board. yes, there are interesting and important issues being discussed here and people are making measured, and respectful arguments. but there is now a 6 page thread on our board which is essentially about child pornography. it doesn't seem right that it's here. i know i'm not the most prolific nor the most respected/popular member here, but i'd just like to say out loud that i think this thread should be removed. and i, of course, understand why many here will feel it should be left open. in fairness to our board members, i started this thread wondering if anyone had heard from bill barton, wondering if he was ok. had i known where it would have led us, i would not have begun it. Nor would I have posted the news I did. And yet I know that someone would have "found out" anyway. Ah, life in the Google era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 I, at least, am very glad that this news was posted. It's not good news, certainly, but I think it's important that we know about this since Bill was a member of our jazz community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utevsky Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 These allegations trouble me as much as they do anyone. But they are still just allegations. David, you posted the Facebook message in post #177. Bill requested a friend post on his Facebook account that he had fallen back into a child pornography addiction and subsequently been arrested for trafficking it. Don't you read that as Bill admitting guilt? Surely if it were not, he would have asked his friend not to post that, but an indignant refutation. No? No, Bill hasn't admitted guilt in a legal sense. He has admitted that he has a serious problem with child pornography and that is why he is in trouble. Yes, that's disgusting. But he hasn't admitted that he committed any crimes -- let alone the child rapes that some board members are convinced he must have committed. I won't be surprised if he does plead guilty, but it hasn't happened yet. I'm more focused on the legal case, perhaps because I'm a lawyer. (However, I've never practiced criminal law and don't have any expertise in this area.) But I realize that's not all that matters. It's fair for you to decide, based on what he actually has admitted, that you don't ever want to have anything to do with him again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 No, Bill hasn't admitted guilt in a legal sense. He has admitted that he has a serious problem with child pornography and that is why he is in trouble. Yes, that's disgusting. But he hasn't admitted that he committed any crimes -- let alone the child rapes that some board members are convinced he must have committed. I won't be surprised if he does plead guilty, but it hasn't happened yet. I'm more focused on the legal case, perhaps because I'm a lawyer. (However, I've never practiced criminal law and don't have any expertise in this area.) But I realize that's not all that matters. It's fair for you to decide, based on what he actually has admitted, that you don't ever want to have anything to do with him again. 1) you can't do both, practice your "addiction" to child porn and be innocent. thus if you admit the former you have admitted the latter. all this is too serious to whine about the legal details, guilt and crime are older than your laws; yet honestly i don't see the fine line between admitting a "serious child porn problem" and admitting a crime even from a legal perspective as far as i can judge that... 2) i did not say that i am convinced that bill has raped children, only that he had children raped by others on his behalf - that's what a "child porn addiction" is all about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 These allegations trouble me as much as they do anyone. But they are still just allegations. David, you posted the Facebook message in post #177. Bill requested a friend post on his Facebook account that he had fallen back into a child pornography addiction and subsequently been arrested for trafficking it. Don't you read that as Bill admitting guilt? Surely if it were not, he would have asked his friend not to post that, but an indignant refutation. No? No, Bill hasn't admitted guilt in a legal sense. He has admitted that he has a serious problem with child pornography and that is why he is in trouble. Yes, that's disgusting. But he hasn't admitted that he committed any crimes -- let alone the child rapes that some board members are convinced he must have committed. I won't be surprised if he does plead guilty, but it hasn't happened yet. I'm more focused on the legal case, perhaps because I'm a lawyer. (However, I've never practiced criminal law and don't have any expertise in this area.) But I realize that's not all that matters. It's fair for you to decide, based on what he actually has admitted, that you don't ever want to have anything to do with him again. I am a lawyer too. I have not practiced criminal law, but I have been appointed by the local Court to represent parties, for free, in juvenile abuse and neglect cases. I am very attuned to the presumption of innocence and the uncertainties of proof in any legal case--I have seen the uncertainties of proof in many trials and depositions. For the purpose of this discussion on this board, I don't feel that those legal points are what the members are really talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 In a different context, I have a serious problem with child pornography and I have a serious problem with a lawyer who says Bill Barton has not admitted his guilt. It's over. He has come out with it. Semantics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 This is not entirely semantics. The facebook post admits a general problem, but it does not comment on the specific charges he is facing under the indictment - i.e. uploading material to the website at issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 Well, as Niko says, there's ultimately little difference between consumption and "production" - it's really all too horrendous. And I guess that is the reason why so many tend to throw overboard the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" here. Self-protection of this community and of our own mental sanity might be part of it. It's really beyond thought and imagination - I don't want to go there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 This is not entirely semantics. The facebook post admits a general problem, but it does not comment on the specific charges he is facing under the indictment - i.e. uploading material to the website at issue. just hypothetically, let's say you're undeservedly in prison because you're wrongly accused of stealing vintage postcards; would you ask someone to post on your facebook page that your addiction to vintage postcards broke out again and now your in trouble? sounds like the most absurdly illogical thing to do for someone who intends to plead on innocence... don't know if this is what hot ptah meant, but the presumption of innocence and stuff doesn't apply to me, i'm not your legal system (neither are you), and facts seem fairly clear... i have no problem with apologizing in a big way when the time comes, but until then i rely on the facts i have access to, and those look so bad i don't have any doubts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 The phrase "it's not entirely semantics" is semantic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny E Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) I feel kinda out of it. As you all know I have not visited the board in a while. Nor have I seen Bill at any shows or events in a while. Last night Sam told me Bill had been arrested for being involved in a child Pornography ring. It was news I wished she hadn't shared. Bill has always been a big Reptet fan. Used to play our music on his radio show all the time, come to most of our shows, reviewed our discs and was a big supporter of creative music in general. He was not a close friend, but he was on the 'scene' a lot and I liked him. Not only did I find out that he was arrested but when I told my wife she looked him up and it appears he was a convicted sex offender. My wife remembers him being at some all age shows of mine where my young son was in attendance. She remembers Bill taking an inordinate amount of pictures of him. I tried to calm her down about it, assuring her that he was fully clothed so no harm was done. But I now find myself getting angry knowing these photos were probably taken for a reason other than the simple joy of the event. Where are these pictures now? I haven't a clue. I will ask around to see if anyone knows anything about Bill's situation and whereabouts. If I learn anything new I will check back with an update. I know most of you have known about this horrible situation for months. But for me, I just found out yesterday and I think I'm in a minor state of shock. Edited November 30, 2011 by Johnny E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I had news today that Bill is going to enter a guilty plea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny E Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I had news today that Bill is going to enter a guilty plea. *sigh* I can't believe this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocispepraluger102 Posted November 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I feel kinda out of it. As you all know I have not visited the board in a while. Nor have I seen Bill at any shows or events in a while. Last night Sam told me Bill had been arrested for being involved in a child Pornography ring. It was news I wished she hadn't shared. Bill has always been a big Reptet fan. Used to play our music on his radio show all the time, come to most of our shows, reviewed our discs and was a big supporter of creative music in general. He was not a close friend, but he was on the 'scene' a lot and I liked him. Not only did I find out that he was arrested but when I told my wife she looked him up and it appears he was a convicted sex offender. My wife remembers him being at all age shows of mine where my son Milo was in attendance. She remembers him taking an inordinate amount of pictures of him. He's six now, was probably 4 and 5 when these shows took place. I've had to calm my wife down about it, assuring her that he was fully clothed so no harm was done. But I now find myself getting angry knowing these photos were probably taken for a reason other than the simple joy of the event. Where are these pictures now? I haven't a clue. I will ask around to see if anyone knows anything about Bill's situation and whereabouts. If I learn anything new I will check back with an update. I know most of you have known about this horrible situation for months. But for me, I just found out yesterday and I think I'm in a minor state of shock. thanks, johnny, for relating your family's very personal, troubling, experiences with bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utevsky Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 According to a press release issued by the Department of Justice, Bill Barton was sentenced in January to 327 months in prison and lifetime supervised release for engaging in a child exploitation enterprise. http://www.justice.gov/usao/law/news/wdla20120717.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the report. I hate this about a dozen ways. Edited August 1, 2012 by Chuck Nessa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 He got 27 1/4 years and: Parole has been abolished in the federal system., so he will in all likelihood die in prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alocispepraluger102 Posted August 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) thx for the report. i learned long ago that i'm no good at assessing character, or lack of it. this is an ugly reminder. Edited August 1, 2012 by alocispepraluger102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I hate this about a dozen ways. Bill was one of the first people I "connected" with when I joined up here, so +1 on that sentiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedwork Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) horrifying. just when you think you know how fucked up things can be, this report lands at your feet. i couldn't read much past the 4rd or 5th paragraph. monstrous. Edited August 1, 2012 by thedwork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete C Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 i learned long ago that i'm no good at assessing character, or lack of it. this is an ugly reminder. In this case, then, almost nobody is good at assessing character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 oi. Sickening on so many levels; including the thought of somebody you know being locked up that long - and deserving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rostasi Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Wow. OK, this is news to me. This all surfaced when I was away from here for a year. Man...really gets you thinking (again) about these social "friendships" that people go on about. Didn't know him except seeing him here and, I think, on JazzCorner, but I have to hope that he had no direct deleterious effect on any of you here. I say "direct" because I can't help but think there's got to be some "psychic" healing that needs to be attended to if one is to take these social forums earnestly. I don't know what else to say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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