Former Member bill barton

[jeffcrom]

I know what you mean - I can't get this off my mind. I've been looking into this story, and based on sentences already handed down, Bill, a 61-year-old man, is probably looking at spending most or all of the rest of his life in Angola if convicted. From all reports, Angola is an extremely tough prison. Thinking about this prospect facing someone I knew and liked (at least in internet terms) is tough. Except that...

The child porn site he was allegedly involved with was apparently a particularly awful one. Members were encouraged to film and submit new content, not just trade stuff they found - which would be bad enough. For anyone involved with this, it's hard for me to say that any punishment would be too severe.

[thedwork]

yes to all responses so far. i've been using essentially only two online forums - this one and AAJ - for about 10 years now. have checked in to one or the other (or both) once a day for all that time. most posters remain anonymous 'avatars.' but there have been more than a few that have become 'friend-like' and many who have become known to me (and everyone here) as very real, actual true to life people w/ actual real-life identities and activities that are actually followed outside of this virtual reality. this bill barton thing is by far the most bizarre real world slap in the face from an online presence i've ever experienced in my 10 years of posting and interacting in places like these. mind-boggling. i believe i only had a few back-and-forths w/ him here. he was a reviewer, right?

i still would like to think he may be innocent. the internet is so crazy. maybe he was tangentially involved and actually, somehow didn't know what he was involved in? scary...

[Van Basten II]

We didn't know, so it's hard to regret communicating with the guy, as horrible as what he did (might have done) of this board / outside of the music is. That's the only way I can approach this thing at the moment.

I agree, if you had no clue what was he is doing beyond his interest in music , how the heck could you blame yourself for sharing a passion with a dude on the internet or even regret it.

Considering the line of work I'm doing, my way of seeing is that people watch too many movies or news show where they focus on the evil side of people without any nuance, the sad truth is quite often that people who do monstruous or really sickening things are often people who look to live a perfectly average life who either will snap and will do the unthinkable or simply living a double life. So unless you're in the know, it's pretty tough to screen people and decide this dude is up to no good.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Van Basten II

[Jazzmoose]

I think this is about all the internet I can handle for one day. Shit.

[Tom Storer]

just to be aware that this ring involves missing and probably kidnapped/enslaved children - it's not just a bunch of weirdos sitting around talking or looking at pictures -

According to copies of the indictments available on the Web, none of the people arrested have, so far, been charged with anything more than distributing illegal and, need it be said, morally reprehensible porn videos. Bill has not been charged with personally harming any child, only with helping distribute the results via this bulletin board. Which is bad enough, of course, if the charges are accurate.

[Niko]

According to copies of the indictments available on the Web, none of the people arrested have, so far, been charged with anything more than distributing illegal and, need it be said, morally reprehensible porn videos. Bill has not been charged with personally harming any child, only with helping distribute the results via this bulletin board. Which is bad enough, of course, if the charges are accurate.

all the indictments so far only contain charges of uploading (no doubt because that is the only thing which can be proved "online", remember that initially the indictments also didn't have the accused's names)... but fwiw, the board had a "producers" subforum so you can be fairly certain that at least in some cases further (horrible) charges will be added

[Face of the Bass]

Well, this is awful news. I've never met Bill but have considered him a friend since I first crossed paths with him many years ago. We traded CDs a few times, and he hipped me to the music of Rahsaan. If he did what they say he did then it is horrible, but he will still be my friend. I would write to him in prison if I could obtain an address.

[BERIGAN]

just to be aware that this ring involves missing and probably kidnapped/enslaved children - it's not just a bunch of weirdos sitting around talking or looking at pictures -

According to copies of the indictments available on the Web, none of the people arrested have, so far, been charged with anything more than distributing illegal and, need it be said, morally reprehensible porn videos. Bill has not been charged with personally harming any child, only with helping distribute the results via this bulletin board. Which is bad enough, of course, if the charges are accurate.

I imagine it's easier to prove in court the possession part. How the fuck do you prove an infant was molested by someone without DNA. Man this makes me ill...IF and I am saying if he was a convicted Pedophile , how the hell was he able have to access to and run a child porn board(If I am remembering correctly, really don't want to re-read anything) in the first place??? Were they looking to ensnare more people over time??? How many more children were harmed while trying to build a bigger case???

He even used part of his real name in his handle, Blackbart 2010. Amazing.

The bigger question to me though is, why we as a society allow these people back in society. Does anyone really believe any Pedophile is truly rehabilitated??? How about this, if you are ever convicted again, life in prison with no chance of parole. Seems like the absolute least we could do for children everywhere...

Well, this is awful news. I've never met Bill but have considered him a friend since I first crossed paths with him many years ago. We traded CDs a few times, and he hipped me to the music of Rahsaan. If he did what they say he did then it is horrible, but he will still be my friend. I would write to him in prison if I could obtain an address.

I have known two women that were molested as children. One is an alcoholic, the other killed herself. Forget him, and see what you can do to help out those that were molested when they were young....

Edited August 10, 2011 by BERIGAN

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, I thought I read that he was already a Registered Sex Offender. I can't stop thinking about this either. At one point early on I was like "maybe he was just hosting files and didn't pay attention to what he was hosting"... but no, not the case at all.

In addition to this board, he also wrote some very nice reviews for Signal To Noise Magazine, and was one of the writers for that mag that I looked forward to reading.

Damn.

[Face of the Bass]

Well, this is awful news. I've never met Bill but have considered him a friend since I first crossed paths with him many years ago. We traded CDs a few times, and he hipped me to the music of Rahsaan. If he did what they say he did then it is horrible, but he will still be my friend. I would write to him in prison if I could obtain an address.

I have known two women that were molested as children. One is an alcoholic, the other killed herself. Forget him, and see what you can do to help out those that were molested when they were young....

Believe me, I know about the horrors of child abuse. But the reality is that we don't know what happened here, we can surmise based on reports in the newspapers, but we still don't know. The one aspect of Christianity that I most agree with is the fact that Jesus, during his time on earth, spent much of his time with criminals. I don't think it is right to just "forget" anyone.

[jazzbo]

Amen. Being a Christian is about caring for others, and forgiveness. Or should be.

Edited August 10, 2011 by jazzbo

[Chicago Expat]

Well, this is awful news. I've never met Bill but have considered him a friend since I first crossed paths with him many years ago. We traded CDs a few times, and he hipped me to the music of Rahsaan. If he did what they say he did then it is horrible, but he will still be my friend. I would write to him in prison if I could obtain an address.

I have known two women that were molested as children. One is an alcoholic, the other killed herself. Forget him, and see what you can do to help out those that were molested when they were young....

I think we need to be careful here. I can see this being the start of a disturbing thread turning into something even worse.

Berigan, I'd up you one on your legal proposition. Once a person is convicted of this type of crime against children, they go to life in prison on the first offense. My feeling is go ahead and rehabilitate behind bars and away from children and stay there. The whole thing makes me viciously ill and angry and I don't have a shred of sympathy for someone who commits these kinds of crimes.

But the thing is, there are people on this forum who befriended him and they're gonna have a hard time sorting out their feelings for someone who they considered a friend but now are faced with the awfulness of his actions. That's a friggin' minefield to work through and it usually involves some sentiments of sympathy toward the criminal as a way of reaching out to the "good side" of their friend. It's a pretty human reaction, and I'm sure it will get displayed in posts on this thread if it continues as it has. I think we want to avoid sniping at each other or passing judgments on other peoples' reactions to this as expressed through their posts. Everybody here is going to have to work through this as best they can.

I do, however, agree that sympathy should be saved for the victims of the crime. I just don't see any value in engaging someone who directs it elsewhere as they try to work through this thing.

My advice is well meant. I hope you take it that way. This whole thing is hard.

[Larry Kart]

FWIW, as I wrote the other day to a friend here:

Sadly, or much worse than sadly, it's part of the human condition, which of course is no excuse. OTOH, I don't know Barton personally, only through his posts on Organissimo, so I don't have to deal with that personal sense of confusion, anger, you name it.

[AllenLowe]

it's bad, and even relatively "benign" molestation leaves a very difficult and sometimes freely-associated scar (I was molested by a neighbor when I was about 6; I buried it psychologically and only started thinking about it 10 years ago; it's a very disembodied feeling for me; the porn thing mutiplies the offense and thank god it never went past a certain barrier for me). But while I wouldn't grab a torch and go to his house in the middle of the night, I have no desire to try and understand or even put forgiveness as an option. My feelings are a much greater sense of detached disdain.

[clifford_thornton]

Before me, my ex-girlfriend dated a guy who turned out to have assaulted several pre-teen girls (his saxophone students, as he was a music teacher/musician). He still had French citizenship so he left the country and probably would not be extradited back to the US. Supreme douche for whom I have no sympathy.

Barton's another and more complex story, I would say, which leaves me more shocked and disgusted because in personal exchanges, he was far, far from an asshole/douchebag. My ex's ex, on the other hand, seemed like a shithead well before all this stuff went down.

[RDK]

Good god. Just saw this thread after seeing what I thought was a peculiar reference to Bill on another thread. I kinda feel sick right now.

[Bright Moments]

Good god. Just saw this thread after seeing what I thought was a peculiar reference to Bill on another thread. I kinda feel sick right now.

+1

[Leeway]

Amen. Being a Christian is about caring for others, and forgiveness. Or should be.

I understand where you are coming from but isn't it presumptuous for us to forgive? What are we forgiving him for? Shocking us? The victims are the children. The children who were raped, tortured, abused. It is for them (and their families) to decide whether there should be forgiveness.

It just feels to me that to proffer forgiveness for this person is almost presumptuous, no matter the good intention behind it.

[JSngry]

To forgive does not mean to forget.

[jazzbo]

Just consider the Lord's prayer, that has it right there.

[Dave James]

No offense to the true believers among us, but too many Christians being too willing to forgive too many things is part of the reason we're where we are today. So much evil has been done in the name of religion over the years, it's impossible to fully comprehend. And, IMO, part of the reason that's the case is because of this overwhelming need to forgive, thereby affirming in some sort of Mobius strip-like skein of ill-founded logic that man is inherently good.

I consider myself to be a left wing agnostic, so I'm coming at this from that angle. I have many friends who are very religious, so I've butted heads with them in a friendly way for years. I don't want to convict Bill before all the facts are clear. That's not forgiving, that's just not knowing. If he is found responsible, though, then forgiveness for me is not an option. There are too many kids out there who will be totally and completely screwed up for the rest of their lives and, as hard as it is to contemplate, probably a few who won't have any "rest of their lives" to live. Seems to me a true Christian would be actively involved in finding out how they can help the real victims here, not just wrestling with the moral dilemma of forgiveness.

Of course, the more important issue is this. How can a loving God allow this to happen? You want a moral dilemma, try that one on for size.

[Niko]

stupid question about th US: he's been in there for four months now (and what he allegedly did is not a mystery murder but - so it seems - a straightforward to check offense) what are the chances he's in there innocently?

[jazzbo]

Listen, I grapple with a lot of issues with organized religion. But forgiveness is a cornerstone of Christianity, you can't just say "we'll forgive this but not that." And it's not just forgiving and then washing your hands. It's forgiving and helping on all sides of the sin-issue.

It doesn't matter I guess because agnostics are free to pick and choose, and even "Christians" who make a lot of noise aobut holiness are full of hatred and venom and the last thing they really do is forgive. I'm just putting it out there. I believe it is best for all concerned to struggle to forgive. I just didn't feel that castigating Face the Bass for harboring the love of friendship and brotherhood in his heart was something that can be just lying there. I applaud Face's statement.

This isn't easy at all. This is a broad community and I'm sure we might be very shocked to see hard investigative results of the private lives and doings of many here. I'm not sure what we should be saying and talking here but it seems so far we're reasonably certain that Bill Barton is involved in the investigation of these crimes as a possible perpetrator. And really, that's all we know, if we know that. I'll say no more other than I wish the best for all involved in this as victims and any who may be falsely accused.

[Chuck Nessa]

I thought forgiveness was the lords business.

[jazzbo]

That's your thought.

There's forgiveness asked of us if you read the New Testament, recite the Lord's Prayer, etc.

I fall way short on that, I admit.