Will Vinson and other "modern mainstream"

[Larry Kart]

After a post in praise of Vinson by Tom Storer on the "Live Music" forum, I weighed in to say that I'd found Vinson's playing attractive on a recent album by the at times rather slick but IMO talented guitarist Jonathan Kreisberg, "Shadowless" (Vinson is a member of Kresiberg's band).

Since then I bought a copy of Vinson's "Stockholm Syndrome" (Criss Cross), with guitarist Lage Lund, pianist Aaron Parks, bassist Orlando LeFleming, and drummer Kendrick Scott. Though I basically like his rather lean, lithe, pony-like tone, this second encounter with Vinson left me feeling that there may be too many near-rote melodic and harmonic gestures in his playing for my taste, that it's too much about patterns of "substitutions," a la Osby perhaps.

Vinson admits to a fondness for Paul Desmond -- not a negative in my book, though Desmond for that matter could get overfond of sequences, as Lee Konitz once pointed out. Oddly enough, though, I also hear a connection to circa 1958 Cannonball Adderley, when he was alongside Coltrane in Miles' sextet. I know -- how could "rather lean" go together with the inherent juiciness of Cannonball's timbre? Well, Vinson's timbre does seem to echo the relative evenness of Cannonball's characteristic timbral "gargle," albeit Vinson bleaches it out in a personal manner; and he also echoes the rather fiddly harmonic busy-ness that Cannonball got into while playing alongside Trane. I wonder if Vinson knows the work of Hal McKusick, who also had an at once lean and gargle-y tone and often wound up juggling a pack of similar melodic-harmonic gestures, though they were his own?

I'll probably keep listening to Vinson but wonder what other altoists in this general bag have caught the ears of others here. If indeed they are in this bag, two that I've been impressed by are Greg Ward (from the Chicago area, now mostly based in New York), and Loren Stillman. (Edited to add: I know from abundant experience that Ward has a broader range than "mainstream modern," extending well into what is called "free" playing, and I believe Stillman does too. That the consequences of their broader range(s) can be heard in their "MM" work is probably among the reasons I'm drawn to them.)

BTW, I've seen praise directed at Lage Lund, but so far I don't get it. If I had to pick, I'd take Kreisberg, for all his sometime slickness, or Nate Radley, though I've heard less of him recently than I would like, or Liberty Ellman (a very "system oriented" player, but for me his system works and doesn't seem to be playing him).

[JSngry]

Liberty Ellman's an altoist?

I very much like where Donald Harrison's ended up, although I equally very much didn't like where he started out.

And I've pretty much headed in the opposite direction with Kenny Garrett.

[Larry Kart]

No, Lage Lund is a guitarist, and because he's on Vinson's album and Vinson is on an album by another guitarist Jonathan Kreisberg I took the liberty (so to speak) of introducing that side topic. BTW, unless you're just toying with me, my original post identified both Lund and Kreisberg as guitarists. Radley is too.

[JSngry]

Not toying with you, just woke up and am reading without my glasses. Either one of those is fraught with peril, but together...

I just relistened to Ellman's Pi album a few days ago and was totally into it.

[ghost of miles]

A big yes to Greg Ward--I was really impressed by his playing when he came through here with Mike Reed's People, Places and Things last October and finally got around to picking up his leader debut, SOUTH SIDE STORY. Just unearthed our station's promo copy of the Chicago Afro-Latin Ensemble's BLUEPRINTS, which also features Ward, and am going to give a listen to that tomorrow. I haven't heard SHADOWLESS yet, but I also agree w/you about Kreisberg being a talented player, Larry; I heard him in person as well last year when he came through here as a member of Lonnie Smith's touring trio.

Edited July 31, 2011 by ghost of miles

[MomsMobley]

Walter Vinson -------->

Eddie 'Cleanhead' Vinson (who's pretty good) -------->

Vinson Cole (the black tenor) --------->

Vincennes, Indiana (has its good & bad points) -------->

USS Carl Vinson (docked points for racist-- if merely typically so namesake) ------->

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George Fornby (who might actually be as good as Cleanhead, actually------>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYo7a0GZlZQ

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Will Vinson, the death of music

[clifford_thornton]

I'm interested to see where Darius Jones goes. Certainly more firmly in the "out" bag, but he's got soul and chops, and considering his work with Mike Pride, can probably pull off some convincing more mainstream stuff.

[Trumpet Guy]

Logan Richardson seems quite popular these days. I like Myron Walden. Also like Jaleel Shaw too. Also John O'Gallagher is an impressive player to me. Quite a few smokin' young alto students @Berklee & NEC these days

I like Lund and have a few of his CDs...

Edited August 1, 2011 by Trumpet Guy

[clifford_thornton]

I was impressed with Mike DiRubbo, too, when I heard his new-ish disc on PosiTone.

[kh1958]

I've heard Mike DiRubbo and Logan Richardson live and liked both of them.

The alto player I heard about a month ago that I really liked was Mark Gross.

[Larry Kart]

Thanks everybody. I'm listening to clips. So far I like Jaleel Shaw's relaxed fluidity and would like to hear more of Logan Richardson, though he may prove to be too system-driven for me; again, I'd like to hear more. Even though he's been around for a good while and made lots of records, does Dave Binney count here? Some Binney I've liked a good deal; other Binney not so much. At times he seems to play beyond the point he should IMO, runs figures into the ground.

BTW, does anyone have an answer to this YouTube problem. Some clips play right through, others stop and start with that rolling white ball effect, which leads me to depart. Any remedies?

[Niko]

btw, the Smalls Live Archive is a great place to check out most of these guys... just listening to Richardson here

http://www.smallsjazzclub.com/index.cfm?eventId=3525

this DiRubbo concert has been a favorite for quite some time now

http://www.smallsjazzclub.com/index.cfm?eventId=2616

(mostly due to the contributions of Monte Croft though)

[Larry Kart]

Thanks, Niko. I keep forgetting about the Smalls archive because normally I don't listen much to music on the computer.

[JSngry]

BTW, does anyone have an answer to this YouTube problem. Some clips play right through, others stop and start with that rolling white ball effect, which leads me to depart. Any remedies?

Try clearing your cache, see if that makes it any better.

[Larry Kart]

Thanks, Jim.

[relyles]

I have really enjoyed Zaid Nasser. He has two recordings as a leader on the Smalls label that I think are worthwhile.

I also thought that Jon Gordon's The Thing's You Are on Artistshare was one of the best recordings I heard the year it was released.

Both Nasser and Gordon are basically straight ahead players, but IMO both insert enough of their own personality into their playing to hold my attention.

Edited August 3, 2011 by relyles

[Larry Kart]

Above I said that IMO Dave Binney sometimes runs figures into the ground. I've just heard his 2010 album "Barefooted Town" (CrissCross) and don't hear anything of the sort.