Ireland's Anti-Jazz Campaign

[JSngry]

Jazz, schmazz, it's this landlordism that is the true evil, even today.

[A Lark Ascending]

Jazz, schmazz, it's this landlordism that is the true evil, even today.

For you, Mr Sangry:

A measure of Davitt’s power as a speaker can be gauged from an interesting meeting held at Straide, County Mayo, in 1880. The meeting was on the very site of the home from which he was cast on the roadside at the age of five. In the address Davitt said:

"Can a more eloquent denunciation of an accursed land code be found than what is witnessed here in this depopulated district? In the memory of many now listening to my words, that peaceful little stream which meanders by the outskirts of this multitude sang back the merry voices of happy children and wended its way through a once populous and prosperous village. Now, however, the merry sounds are gone, the busy hum of hamlet life is hushed in sad desolation. For the hand of the home-destroyers have been here and performed their hellish work, leaving Straide but a name to mark the place where happy homesteads once stood, and whence an inoffensive people were driven to the four corners of the earth by the ruthless decree of landlordism. How often in a strange land has my boyhood’s ear drunk in the tale of outrage and wrong and infamy perpetrated here in the name of English laws, and in the interest of territorial greed; in listening to the accounts of the famine sorrow, of the deaths by starvation, of coffinless graves, of scenes

On highway side, where oft was seen

The wild dog and the vulture keen

Tug for the limbs and gnaw the face

Of some starved child of our Irish race.

It is no little consolation to know, however, that we are here today doing battle against a doomed monopoly, and that the power which has so long domineered Ireland and its people is brought to its knees at last, and on the point of being crushed for ever, and if I am standing today upon a platform erected over the ruins of my levelled home, I may yet have the satisfaction of trampling on the ruins of Irish landlordism."

http://www.generalmichaelcollins.com/The_land_League/Michael_Davitt.html

[JSngry]

I gotta say that I feel him on that one.

[sidewinder]

"Jazz was created by negroes. Jazz was created by drunk negroes. Jazz was created by drunk negroes in brothels."

Hey now. That's what attracted me to jazz in the fist place!

Sounds very similar to the first book on the subject I ever read - a book by mouldy-fig goateed old codger Rex Harris in the school library circa 1975.

I was hooked from that point on. I still have that book somewhere..

My mother grew up in that era - hated the Irish culture forced on her, loved English and American films and music.

I can remember that influence extending into Northern England, the priests (or their sidekicks) calling round on houses to check that the registered catholic kids were going to the "right" school. I wonder if that blinkered stuff still goes on?

Edited July 15, 2011 by sidewinder

[BillF]

Sounds very similar to the first book on the subject I ever read - a book by mouldy-fig goateed old codger Rex Harris in the school library circa 1975.

I was hooked from that point on. I still have that book somewhere..

Harris's book must have been really ancient history by the time you got to it! I read it in 1957 at the age of 17 and spent a few months as a "jazz purist". His extraordinary message seemed to be that if a band hadn't got a banjo in it, it was no longer jazz and that Ellington ceased to play jazz when he added saxophones in the late 20s!!! Fortunately, Bird, Diz, Monk and Miles blasted me out of that way of thinking when I was 18.

[A Lark Ascending]

My mother grew up in that era - hated the Irish culture forced on her, loved English and American films and music.

I can remember that influence extending into Northern England, the priests (or their sidekicks) calling round on houses to check that the registered catholic kids were going to the "right" school. I wonder if that blinkered stuff still goes on?

My mother ticked all the essential boxes - mass on Sunday, confession, fish on Fridays etc. But no more. When the parish priest tried to strong-arm me into being an altar boy at about 14 she made excuses and wouldn't allow it to happen. I suspect she knew things!

I recall priests visiting the house but it was easygoing, not the Spanish Inquisition.

[sidewinder]

Sounds very similar to the first book on the subject I ever read - a book by mouldy-fig goateed old codger Rex Harris in the school library circa 1975.

I was hooked from that point on. I still have that book somewhere..

Harris's book must have been really ancient history by the time you got to it! I read it in 1957 at the age of 17 and spent a few months as a "jazz purist". His extraordinary message seemed to be that if a band hadn't got a banjo in it, it was no longer jazz and that Ellington ceased to play jazz when he added saxophones in the late 20s!!! Fortunately, Bird, Diz, Monk and Miles blasted me out of that way of thinking when I was 18.

I think Charlie Parker got about half a paragraph in that book. Fortunately, I cottoned onto the omission pretty quickly.

I read Philip Larkin's tome not long afterwards and amazingly came out of it all pretty undamaged !

I recall priests visiting the house but it was easygoing, not the Spanish Inquisition.

There was a big difference between the standard of academic teaching between the Catholic and non-Catholic places. Basically, the feeling was that you didn't have much chance of ever progressing to University and beyond with the former.

[sidewinder]

Just checked out my copy from the bookshelf Bill and it is indeed 'Enjoying Jazz' published by Phoenix House at 11/6d with Chris Barber, trumpeter E T Mensah and the man with the Goatee on the front. There is a chapter on 'Bop, Progressive, Cool and Mainstream' so maybe I was being a bit mean..

Lots of recommendations about where to hear trad in Manchester in the back of the book.

Hey, where did that post go?

Edited July 15, 2011 by sidewinder

[BillF]

Sounds very similar to the first book on the subject I ever read - a book by mouldy-fig goateed old codger Rex Harris in the school library circa 1975.

I was hooked from that point on. I still have that book somewhere..

Harris's book must have been really ancient history by the time you got to it! I read it in 1957 at the age of 17 and spent a few months as a "jazz purist". His extraordinary message seemed to be that if a band hadn't got a banjo in it, it was no longer jazz and that Ellington ceased to play jazz when he added saxophones in the late 20s!!! Fortunately, Bird, Diz, Monk and Miles blasted me out of that way of thinking when I was 18.

I think Charlie Parker got about half a paragraph in that book. Fortunately, I cottoned onto the omission pretty quickly.

I now realise we were at cross purposes. The book I read was Harris's Jazz (1952) which got nowhere near Charlie Parker, limiting as it did the description "jazz" to New Orleans/traditional/dixieland. I think you must have read his Enjoying Jazz (1960), by which time he'd hopefully mellowed a little.

[sidewinder]

This book is a classic. I quote (page 103):

"You must not imagine these clubs as 'night-clubs' or 'dives' designed to fleece the members. They were, as are most of the Jazz Clubs of today, places where people with similar interests could exchange views and listen to records or small bands playing their kind of music. They were normally 'dry' (which also applies to most of the Jazz Clubs now), where sometimes soft drinks or tea could be had."

[Big Beat Steve]

I now realise we were at cross purposes. The book I read was Harris's Jazz (1952) which got nowhere near Charlie Parker, limiting as it did the description "jazz" to New Orleans/traditional/dixieland. I think you must have read his Enjoying Jazz (1960), by which time he'd hopefully mellowed a little.

From the DOWN BEAT "MUSIC" YEARBOOK 1963:

[JSngry]

=

I recall priests visiting the house but it was easygoing, not the Spanish Inquisition.

Were you expecting the Spanish Inquisition?

[A Lark Ascending]

=

I recall priests visiting the house but it was easygoing, not the Spanish Inquisition.

Were you expecting the Spanish Inquisition?

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

[JSngry]

True, but it's my only line.

[A Lark Ascending]

Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope....

[JSngry]

[BillF]

?

[A Lark Ascending]

The larch!

The larch.

THE.....larch.

Edited July 15, 2011 by A Lark Ascending

[JSngry]

:g:g:g:g:g:g:g:g:g

[fasstrack]

So - no, the above Irish example does not strike me as particularly backwoodsy.

although it really IS eerie to see the parallels between the Irish reference to teaching Irish dances instead of allowing people to dance to jazz and the situation in 30s (and especially Nazi) Germany where German folk and traditional dances of course were promoted as "clean" examples of dancing as opposed to the "lewdness" of dancing to jazz.

To get more insight on the German take on 'proper' music, CA 1930s-40s, read Josef Skvoreky's preface to his novella The Bass Saxophone (the point of which is to give the background against which he and both his real-life Czech friends and the story's fictional characters rebelled with swing dancing, playing jazz etc.). He cites strict Nazi-era rules re 'correct' dance tempos (which I believe even specified metronome markings) to be strictly adhered to by German dance band musicians. Any feeling at these tempos remotely evocative of swing is to be, of course, avoided. For musicians to disregard such directives or otherwise veer towards jazz/swing was to draw dangerously close to indulging in 'JudeoNegro Music' and, if memory serves, 'JudeoNegro caterwauling'. March tempos for military and other official bands are similarly delineated as to the permissible and the verboten. And I'm only remembering the tip of the iceberg, the list goes on and on and gets nuttier and funnier by the sentence. It really makes remarkable reading. Do yourselves a favor and pick up a copy.

I also heartily recommend the novella itself. It's Skvoreky's finest hour IMO.

[ejp626]

So - no, the above Irish example does not strike me as particularly backwoodsy.

although it really IS eerie to see the parallels between the Irish reference to teaching Irish dances instead of allowing people to dance to jazz and the situation in 30s (and especially Nazi) Germany where German folk and traditional dances of course were promoted as "clean" examples of dancing as opposed to the "lewdness" of dancing to jazz.

To get more insight on the German take on 'proper' music, CA 1930s-40s, read Josef Skvoreky's preface to his novella The Bass Saxophone (the point of which is to give the background against which he and both his real-life Czech friends and the story's fictional characters rebelled with swing dancing, playing jazz etc.). He cites strict Nazi-era rules re 'correct' dance tempos (which I believe even specified metronome markings) to be strictly adhered to by German dance band musicians. Any feeling at these tempos remotely evocative of swing is to be, of course, avoided. For musicians to disregard such directives or otherwise veer towards jazz/swing was to draw dangerously close to indulging in 'JudeoNegro Music' and, if memory serves, 'JudeoNegro caterwauling'. March tempos for military and other official bands are similarly delineated as to the permissible and the verboten. And I'm only remembering the tip of the iceberg, the list goes on and on and gets nuttier and funnier by the sentence. It really makes remarkable reading. Do yourselves a favor and pick up a copy.

I also heartily recommend the novella itself. It's Skvoreky's finest hour IMO.

At one point I owned this book. I'm not sure if it is in storage or I let it slip in one of my moves. I'll try to track it down again...

[A Lark Ascending]

The story of the 'Swingers' or 'Jazzers' inside Nazi Germany is fascinating in this light. Young Germans doing what young people do - rebel against authority by embracing everything the system hates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_Kids

[fasstrack]

To get more insight on the German take on 'proper' music, CA 1930s-40s, read Josef Skvoreky's......

Spelling correction: Make that Josef Skvorecky.Hadn't looked at his name in some time, and I was going by memory exclusively.

[fasstrack]

So - no, the above Irish example does not strike me as particularly backwoodsy.

although it really IS eerie to see the parallels between the Irish reference to teaching Irish dances instead of allowing people to dance to jazz and the situation in 30s (and especially Nazi) Germany where German folk and traditional dances of course were promoted as "clean" examples of dancing as opposed to the "lewdness" of dancing to jazz.

To get more insight on the German take on 'proper' music, CA 1930s-40s, read Josef Skvoreky's preface to his novella The Bass Saxophone (the point of which is to give the background against which he and both his real-life Czech friends and the story's fictional characters rebelled with swing dancing, playing jazz etc.). He cites strict Nazi-era rules re 'correct' dance tempos (which I believe even specified metronome markings) to be strictly adhered to by German dance band musicians. Any feeling at these tempos remotely evocative of swing is to be, of course, avoided. For musicians to disregard such directives or otherwise veer towards jazz/swing was to draw dangerously close to indulging in 'JudeoNegro Music' and, if memory serves, 'JudeoNegro caterwauling'. March tempos for military and other official bands are similarly delineated as to the permissible and the verboten. And I'm only remembering the tip of the iceberg, the list goes on and on and gets nuttier and funnier by the sentence. It really makes remarkable reading. Do yourselves a favor and pick up a copy.

I also heartily recommend the novella itself. It's Skvoreky's finest hour IMO.

At one point I owned this book. I'm not sure if it is in storage or I let it slip in one of my moves. I'll try to track it down again...

I myself bought it at least twice, and would again in a heartbeat if it's not in storage.

Aside from the great satirical nailing of petty officials in Nazi-occupied Czechoslovakia, Skvorecky writes quite poetically and accurately about what music does and musicians do. Very amusing and potent general imagery also. He's well translated in English, and not speaking his native language I can only guess as to whether he's as good a writer in his native tongue as anyone ever was. I'm a reader, not a literary critic, but my instincts say 'yes'.

After reading The Bass Saxophone I read everything available by him, starting with short stories which were thinly disguised accounts of growing up with his jazz-playing teen friends. I next progressed to a detective mystery of the type he was compelled to write under a pseudonym to survive after getting in trouble with the Czech government for writing The Heroes. The Heroes, naturally my next read, got him in hot water for his temerity in portraying the Soviet army liberators of WWII concentration camps as humans with human frailties, not the gods the Party was officially letting on about. He eventually emigrated to Canada, where he wrote as he wished and also enjoyed a career as a professor. I've heard of health problems in the past few years at what must be an advanced age. We can only all wish Josef Skvorecky the best for a lifetime of service as artist and conscience who spoke for many.

Edited July 17, 2011 by fasstrack

[carnivore]

Sounds very similar to the first book on the subject I ever read - a book by mouldy-fig goateed old codger Rex Harris in the school library circa 1975.

I was hooked from that point on. I still have that book somewhere..

Harris's book must have been really ancient history by the time you got to it! I read it in 1957 at the age of 17 and spent a few months as a "jazz purist". His extraordinary message seemed to be that if a band hadn't got a banjo in it, it was no longer jazz and that Ellington ceased to play jazz when he added saxophones in the late 20s!!! Fortunately, Bird, Diz, Monk and Miles blasted me out of that way of thinking when I was 18.

I seem to remember that dear old Rex also asserted that Hawk would have been a great jazz musician if he had played an instrument more suited to jazz, like the clarinet.