The best crime/mystery novel of the Twentieth Century

[RDK]

Chandler and Hammett are certainly the classical go-to guys, but for something a bit more "modern" I'd suggest James Ellroy, either "The Big Nowhere" or "Black Dahlia."

[Justin V]

Lots of choices. For me it is either a Chandler, Cain or Thompson novel.

I would have to add Hammett to that general list, of course (Hammett's The Glass Key is a rarely mentioned gem). If I had to pick one novel from Hammett, Chandler or Thompson, I'd pick Thompson's The Kill-Off, but James Crumley's The Last Good Kiss would also be a candidate for best novel.

If I wanted to go with living authors, I'd go with Ellroy's The Black Dahlia or Paul Tremblay's The Little Sleep.

By the way, fans of Hammett/Chandler/Cain/Thompson/etc. should check out Ross MacDonald. MacDonald's Lew Archer novels are underappreciated and consistently engaging.

EDIT: Tremblay's The Little Sleep is from the 21st century. I'm keeping my mention of it so that someone picks it up.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Justin V

[GA Russell]

Thanks for your votes, and the suggestions of lists!

I have been rereading a few of the classics which I read decades ago. For years I felt that the best was Red Harvest, with The Long Goodbye coming in at number 2. But I have just finished The Maltese Falcon for the first time since 1972, and I think that it is better than the other two, both of which I reread last year.

I read a Jim Thompson short story some years ago, but never a novel by him, so I think I'll add him to my list.

In 1980 I read all of Ross MacDonald's, but out of order. I've decided that I will read them in order now, and I read the first, The Moving Target, in the spring.

I've never read Rex Stout, but I picked up a copy of Fer de Lance a while back, and I'll plan to read that one too.

I've read a couple of Ellroy's. I met him at a book signing in Atlanta some years ago. I have a couple of his on my shelf to get to.

I've never heard of The Daughter of Time before. I've never read anything by Josephine Tey.

I've never read Simenon and Crumley either. I know I should get to both of those.

I read a few James M. Cain back in the mid 70s. They tend to stick with you, particularly Serenade!

I read The Mask of Dimitrios a couple of months ago and enjoyed it.

By the way TTK, when I first read all of Chandler's in 1973 I too felt that the short stories were not as good as the novels. But last year I read the new larger collection called The Simple Art of Murder, and my opinion of the short stories has improved.

Edited June 27, 2011 by GA Russell

[marcello]

I love all of the George Pelecanos' books

[jazzbo]

I've read about three by Elroy. . . not really impressed! I like McDonald, read all those, but they're not quite top shelf for me.

Edited June 27, 2011 by jazzbo

[Bright Moments]

for a more modern noir try Andrew Vachss' Burke series:

Burke

[Larry Kart]

I've always liked The Big Sleep more than the Long Goodbye even though the plot doesn't quite make sense. The first half of The Long Goodbye is great but the second half strikes me as marking the beginning of Chandler's decline. (I'm one of the few Chandler fans who likes Altman's

film version: IMHO it has a much more satisfying ending.

Yes. And Farewell My Lovely has the most diverse characters and wildest scenes of all Chandler's novels as well as perhaps less of his unpleasant personal quirks. I'm a fiend for this stuff. Re Nero Wolfe, there's quite a post-WW2 darkness and gloom about the 3 Zeck novels.

Dancing Bear by James Crumley is terrific and chapter 3 is the best writing of any American crime writer. Crumley's The Wrong Case and, for much of the way, The Last Good Kiss are also xlento (Hank Mobley's word).

Great plot in Pop. 1280 by Jim Thompson. I like the tension of Maigret at the Crossroads by Simenon - it was made into one of Jean Renoir's first sound movies - wonderful, no English subtitles but perfectly clear if you read the novel first.

Don't miss A Coffin for Dimitrios (The Mask of Dimitrios) and Journey into Fear by Eric Ambler. For that matter, don't miss the Sherlock Holmes short stories.

I love "Farewell My Lovely" for the reasons you mentioned, plus the incredible jolt when Chandler links the two strands in the plot (Lindsay Marriot and Jesse Florian) that were quite separate in the two novellas that Chandler cannibalized to make up this novel.

One of the things I like most about "The Long Goodbye" is that in it Chandler more or less painfully confronted many of those "unpleasant personal quirks," if I understand what you mean by that (e.g. the character's implicit prissiness?). In any case, the Marlowe of that book is a Marlowe who has absorbed all the experiences of the previous books, like an aging boxer who has taken too many punches.

[Christiern]

I never hear him mentioned, but when I reached reading for leisure age, I was absorbed by the mysteries of Edgar Wallace.

[ghost of miles]

THE MALTESE FALCON gets my vote, though I agree that THE GLASS KEY perhaps stands too much in its shadow. Lots of love here for FAREWELL, MY LOVELY and THE LONG GOODBYE as well (medjuck, I also dug Altman's cinematic take on it).

[crisp]

Noir is great (and I'd second all the recommendations for Chandler, Hammett and Cain), but don't forget the earlier British type of crime novel: Golden Age detective fiction, ie, classic whodunnits. My favourites include John Dixon Carr (first choice: The Hollow Man), Gladys Mitchell and Michael Innes. Colin Dexter is a decent revival of the tradition that I've recently begun reading. There's Agatha Christie, of course, although I haven't read much of her, and Arthur Conan Doyle is a must.

This website is a great browse that I return to again and again.

[jazzbo]

Mention should also be made of the atmospheric fiction of Cornell Woolrich. Really like some of his such as "Waltz into Darkness" and "The Bride Wore Black."

[BFrank]

What's cool about Maltese Falcon is that so much of the film (including much of the dialogue) is lifted directly from the novel.

[Shawn]

Mention should also be made of the atmospheric fiction of Cornell Woolrich. Really like some of his such as "Waltz into Darkness" and "The Bride Wore Black."

My favorite Woolrich story is "Black Alibi" (which was turned into a fantastic film called The Leopard Man).

I've also got to give a shout to "THE THIN MAN", my first and still favorite Hammett.

[GA Russell]

Shawn, do you remember the Thin Man's name?

[Shawn]

Shawn, do you remember the Thin Man's name?

I think it was "Wynant" (sp?).

[BillF]

Shawn, do you remember the Thin Man's name?

Wardell?

[Big Beat Steve]

Shawn, do you remember the Thin Man's name?

Wardell?

:lol:

[GA Russell]

Shawn, do you remember the Thin Man's name?

I think it was "Wynant" (sp?).

By golly, I think you're right! It's been nearly forty years since I've read The Thin Man, and I don't remember. I asked because that is a famous trick question! Most people who have only seen the movies will tell you "Nick Charles", but of course those who have read the book know better.

[jlhoots]

I've always liked The Big Sleep more than the Long Goodbye even though the plot doesn't quite make sense. The first half of The Long Goodbye is great but the second half strikes me as marking the beginning of Chandler's decline. (I'm one of the few Chandler fans who likes Altman's

film version: IMHO it has a much more satisfying ending.

Yes. And Farewell My Lovely has the most diverse characters and wildest scenes of all Chandler's novels as well as perhaps less of his unpleasant personal quirks. I'm a fiend for this stuff. Re Nero Wolfe, there's quite a post-WW2 darkness and gloom about the 3 Zeck novels.

Dancing Bear by James Crumley is terrific and chapter 3 is the best writing of any American crime writer. Crumley's The Wrong Case and, for much of the way, The Last Good Kiss are also xlento (Hank Mobley's word).

Great plot in Pop. 1280 by Jim Thompson. I like the tension of Maigret at the Crossroads by Simenon - it was made into one of Jean Renoir's first sound movies - wonderful, no English subtitles but perfectly clear if you read the novel first.

Don't miss A Coffin for Dimitrios (The Mask of Dimitrios) and Journey into Fear by Eric Ambler. For that matter, don't miss the Sherlock Holmes short stories.

I agree re: the Crumley books.

[Justin V]

Don't miss A Coffin for Dimitrios (The Mask of Dimitrios) and Journey into Fear by Eric Ambler.

I just purchased a 60s copy of Journey into Fear at a library book sale. I've found it a little dry at the beginning, but I think that it has potential and I plan on finishing it. I love the cover of this particular edition, which seems to have been abandoned in favor of less striking artwork:

Edited June 29, 2011 by Justin V

[BFrank]

Yes, Wynant.

Even more odd in that the movies continued using the "Thin Man" name.

[GA Russell]

BFrank, as I recall, the next two movies' titles were ambiguous (for the general public) and called "After the Thin Man" and "Another Thin Man".

[Shawn]

BFrank, as I recall, the next two movies' titles were ambiguous (for the general public) and called "After the Thin Man" and "Another Thin Man".

Another Thin Man was also adapted from Hammett's "Farewell Murderer". In Myrna Loy's biography she said that Hammett was on set for most of the filming of that third installment...and that it was very hard to get work done because him and William Powell were drinking like fish the entire time.

The Thin Man series is one of the first times that the characters (brought to life by Powell & Loy), became much larger than the original novel itself and their witty banter and "fun" marriage was the real draw to the theaters. Also helps that the first 5 films in the series are pretty much universally excellent, with only the 6th feeling tired. The Thin Man Goes Home (5th film) has an excellent comedic script by Robert Riskin (Capra's writing partner).

Edited June 29, 2011 by Shawn

[GA Russell]

Shawn, I didn't know that! I'll do some searching...

Here you go: The complete set of seven films on seven DVDs for $38.99. A little steep for the bargain box thread, but it is what it is.

http://www.amazon.co...09324444&sr=1-1

Edited June 29, 2011 by GA Russell

[Shawn]

Shawn, I didn't know that! I'll do some searching...

Here you go: The complete set of seven films on seven DVDs for $38.99. A little steep for the bargain box thread, but it is what it is.

http://www.amazon.co...09324444&sr=1-1

That box set is worth every penny. It contains an extra disc with Biography Channel documentaries on both Loy and Powell, plus the discs themselves have trailers and shorts from the same era.