Speaker recommendations

[Daniel A]

Later this year I'll hopefully afford some new speakers to my system, and as we're moving to a bigger apartment in February we'll also have an opportunity set up a dedicated room for reading/music listening, which of course adds to the fun of setting up the equipment in the best possible manner. Actually, my early 90s Jamo CL25 speakers still sound fine to my ears, despite the manufacturer's slight reputation. The biggest problem is that they're ugly - they're covered with some kind of white plastic. For some time I was playing with the thought of somehow refinishing them, but it will probably not be worth it.

A few years ago I looked around for a pair of new speakers, but perhaps without investing too much effort. I remember testing some of the cheaper Dynaudios (can't remember what model, but they were around 600€), but I thought they lacked bass. Not that I'm obsessed with bass - I listen almost exclusively to acoustical jazz and some classical - but I thought my old speakers (admittedly about three times bigger) had a much more 'effortless' reproduction of, say, an acoustical bass. I tried a pair of B&W's too (probably in the same price range, or perhaps just a bit cheaper), but found them a bit harsh sounding. I didn't test any speakers with my particular amp - I can imagine what the clerks would say if I dragged my 30 year old H/K to the shop...

Anyway, I'm looking for recommendations in a price range many of you would describe as 'budget', some 1000€, or just over $1200 at a maximum, but it's what I feel I can spend on a pair of speakers. As mantioned my amp is a Harman/Kardon 930, with a rated output of 2x65 watts at 4 ohm, or 2x45 at 8 ohm. Last time round I was surprised to find that the universally heralded Dynaudios weren't much better than my old speakers - has a decade with them made my ears think that this is how speakers "should" sound?

[sidewinder]

Daniel - I have a pair of Dynaudio Contour 1.8s and I would thoroughly recommend these. They do like to be driven though with a top-end amp and are not very forgiving if there's any weakness in the pre/power amp combination. To put it in a nutshell with a good English expression - 'They like lots of welly'..

Edited January 8, 2004 by sidewinder

[neveronfriday]

Yep. Yep. Yep.

I have the 1.8 too and drive them with a Marantz Class A amplifier. In that combination, the whole thing gets to sound a bit too "warm", but you can reign that effect in by ways of a good cable such as the Fadel Aerolitz or the Cardas Crosslink (in themselves, VERY different cables).

So, the amp makes the sound, the speakers (at least somewhat, in this lower price region) are only supposed to reproduce the sound as neutrally as possible.

Cheers!

[michel devos]

I would go for the BW...As you noticed, they are NOT forgiving and I bet the harsh, nasty sounds you heard came from your HK amp, faithfully reproduced by the BW.

I use BW speakers for monitoring and mastering (801) but I also use smaller ones on location (DM602 or 603) and they give a smooth, creamy sound, with natural bass.Now they're powered by a Krell KSA100 , but I also use on location a Denon PMA100M (around 250€) and get a perfectly acceptable sound from that cheap combination.

I use them mainly on classical music(piano) or jazz organ..and frankly, unless you are prepared to spend a lot more bucks, i can't see better solution in that price bracket.

But now of course, these suit MY ears and not everybody else's...

Edited January 8, 2004 by michel devos

[Claude]

Sorry Daniel, I can't help you if you don't like Dynaudios B)

[Z-Man]

Daniel,

I've had a pair of Magnepan MMG's for about 2 months now, and everyday I love them more. At $550, they are one of the best deals in audio. You buy them factory-direct, and get a 60-day window during which the speakers can be returned for full credit. If you keep them, you can upgrade to a higher-end model within a year and get your full $550 purchase-price credit.

Though they only go down to 50hz, the bass response from the MMG's is amazingly accurate. An acoustic bass sounds like an acoustic bass, not just a low frequency. You could always add a subwoofer, but I have never once wanted one in my set-up. To my ears, the MMG's are very natural sounding, and you really feel the space between the instruments. The depth of the soundstage is incredible.

These speakers need a LOT of good quality power. I have never heard an HK amp, but 65 watts (into 4 ohms) should be sufficient. I'm running 75 watts of tube power into them, and can bring the volume to ear-splitting levels.

IMHO, you would have to spend $2500 to get a better sounding speaker for acoustic jazz.

[Claude]

Another brand to consider is KEF.

The KEF Q7 (1400 Euro list price per pair, street price is lower) is an excellent speaker, considered to be a bit bass-heavy (around 100Hz), so it could please you, but cannot be placed close to the walls.

The Magnepan MMG are, as far as I know, not distributed on Europe.

Edited January 9, 2004 by Claude

[jazzbo]

I had these speakers, and loved them so much that I upgraded to the RL2 model. . . this is an amazing speaker that really has me riveted to my listening seat:

Decware Radial RL-1

Edited January 9, 2004 by jazzbo

[neveronfriday]

I had these speakers, and loved them so much that I upgraded to the RL2 model. . . this is an amazing speaker that really has me riveted to my listening seat:

Decware Radial RL-1

Can you describe what makes these special for you? I'm interested. I've never had the chance to hear those speakers, but I've heard quite a bit about them.

Cheers!

[jazzbo]

Well I've never heard the instruments so naturally and solidly reproduced, with real depth to the sound, and all the soundstaging elements intact. These just sound like music to me, not hifi. . . . Also, they're incredibly adaptive: the tweeter can be adjusted by inserting resistors of different values, and the bass output can be adjusted by raising or lowering the speaker from the floor. . . .

[BeBop]

Not sure what the current price is - right about your limit, I suspect. But I'd recommend listening to some Vandersteen 2s. They won't dazzle you with spectacular anything. And that is the highest recommendation I can make. They are musical in the long-haul. Also reasonably efficient. I've had mine 26 years.

[Daniel A]

Thanks for the recommendations so far! I'll definitely give the Dynaudio Contours a listen, allthough I think they'll be just a bit too expensive (I think it was the Audience 42's I tried a few years ago). I'll probably try affordable models from B&W and KEF, too, as well as Magnepan (if I can find any). Lon's suggestion looks interesting, but I suspect that it may be difficult to find any to test over here.

[Z-Man]

Also check out Thiel CS 1.6's. I think they are about $2K at list price, but you may be able to find a demo pair cheaper. I was ready to buy a pair of these until someone told me about the Magnepan MMG deal. Transparency and tight bass are my main criteria for a speaker, and the Thiel's really fit the bill.

I'm pretty sure Magnepan would ship to Europe. Check out Magnepan for info. If you do try 'em out, remember two words: BREAK IN. I always thought audio gear break-in was kind of a crock until I got the Maggies. When I first plugged them in they sounded thin and compressed, and I almost returned them. After about three weeks of normal listening, the bass response seemed to double and the soundstage opened wide up.

[AmirBagachelles]

For the past six months I have been listening to music mostly at my desk at home, using a small set of Linn Tukans set up about 4-5 feet from either ear, w/ a small NAD all-in-one unit (CD/integrated). These are some tiny boxes, but it has been a great experience, very transparent, but begging for a better larger amp, stands, and a sub. Vocal music is especially amazing on these speakers. I recommend going to a Linn dealer, checking out some used gear if possible. Just because you have a larger room, you don't need a larger system necessarily. You may have simply want to take advantage of the flexibility to locate some top small monitors optimally (height included) and find a sub to mate with your speakers. Having said all that, if I had the money, I would go for some floor standing Linn Ninkas in a quick minute.

[Dmitry]

my amp is a Harman/Kardon 930, with a rated output of 2x65 watts at 4 ohm, or 2x45 at 8 ohm.

Magnepans would eat your amp alive.

Imo there's no reason for buying speakers that don't go below 50 Hz unless you add a sub.

For your budget you can get some decent full-range speakers.

OR

Look into horn speakers, like a pair of vintage Klipsch Heresys, add an SVS sub and you got something to smile about.

[doubleM]

Based on a reputable dealer in my area, the speaks that were rated best sounding under a G. were the Paradigm studio monitors (20). I'm not sure which publication he was citing, but I own a pair and they are great for all of my listening needs (jazz, rock, classical, jazz, jazz, and soul). I wish I could describe their benefits in more audiophile-friendly terms, but look 'em up. They are outstanding!

[Daniel A]

my amp is a Harman/Kardon 930, with a rated output of 2x65 watts at 4 ohm, or 2x45 at 8 ohm.

Magnepans would eat your amp alive.

So would perhaps the Dynaudios too... I just checked the "Recommended Amp. Power" in the specs for the various Dynaudio models.

Contour S1.4:

Small size rooms: >30 watts

Medium size rooms: >80 watts

Large size rooms: -- watts

( http://www.dynaudiousa.com/products/contour/s14/s14spec.htm )

Audience 52:

Small size rooms: >25 watts

Medium size rooms: >65 watts

Large size rooms: -- watts

( http://www.dynaudiousa.com/products/audien...2/aud52spec.htm )

At least my amp would still manage in a "small" room... Allthough I've heard that the rated power was a bit lower than the actual output.

I've always loved the sound of the H/K 930, so I'd like to try to hang on to it. Is there any point of getting a separate power amp to it?

[Claude]

The Contours (which cost 2x your budget) are rather difficult to drive, much more than the Audience series and many other brands in this category. You would need a new amp to do them justice.

[Daniel A]

Thanks, Cluade! I found an extensive test of the Contour 1.3 in an old Swedish audiophile magazine, and the testers stressed that a powerful amp was needed to drive the speakers.

Probably I'll need a new amp and a new CD player too... But I can't upgrade everything at once anyway. Perhaps it would be better to wait until I may get a new amp and speakers at the same time to avoid a future mismatch.

But I'll definitely keep the TD125!