barnaba.siegel Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 9 hours ago, Д.Д. said: Zbiggy was a good player, a bit over the top, but so it goes with electric violin in jazz fusion context. There is some new material released through last years: two volumes of Tomasz Stańko (Wooden Music I and II), few gigs (Live In Solothurn and Live Recordings 1973 & 1976, there is duet with Albert Mangelsdorff, pretty rough stuff) and collection of his live works from series Polish Radio Jazz Archives. 9 hours ago, Д.Д. said: b.free released seem to be indeed ...ahem... "unauthorized" - but they are unique and high quality stuff (if you ignore numerous mistakes in compositions' titles): Oh yes. I bought this 9CD Born Free, The 12th German Jazz Festival set. Great quality of... everything, beautiful photos and top-noth music, mostly some free and early jazz-rock stuff. I wanted to but also the Balver Hohle and Altena sets, but my appetite somehow diminished after discovering it's not authorized. Bummer. 9 hours ago, Д.Д. said: Are these Japanese CDs on your shelf still sealed? No, no - it's just some kind of glimmer in my room. Apart from 2 mini-lp's here every one was unsealed and tested in action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optatio Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 Albert Mangelsdorff – Three Originals • The Wide Point • Trilogue • Albert Live In Montreux ... 1993 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.D. Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 57 minutes ago, barnaba.siegel said: Oh yes. I bought this 9CD Born Free, The 12th German Jazz Festival set. Great quality of... everything, beautiful photos and top-noth music, mostly some free and early jazz-rock stuff. I wanted to but also the Balver Hohle and Altena sets, but my appetite somehow diminished after discovering it's not authorized. Bummer. Exactly my experience. I bought the very same set...other festival boxes are attractive but I've been put off by the authorization thing. I also have a CD of Marion Brown "Five Improvisations" on the label, so that's 3 B.Free releases I'm not so proud of owning. 😶 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted May 14 Report Share Posted May 14 20 minutes ago, T.D. said: Exactly my experience. I bought the very same set...other festival boxes are attractive but I've been put off by the authorization thing. I also have a CD of Marion Brown "Five Improvisations" on the label, so that's 3 B.Free releases I'm not so proud of owning. 😶 I have a couple of these B.free (or BE!, they have various logos on different releases) festival sets as well, still have to listen to them in full. Yes, they are bootlegs alright. There are no liner notes as such - just track listing (often incorrect) and personnel (mostly correct), lots of photos and reproductions of old press clippings (some quite entertaining). No Information about the label to be found anywhere on the release. At the same time, I can't say I have particular qualms about buying these sets because I am fully aware that it would have been impossible to release them (and these are 12-CD sets!) securing authorization of all the (dozens!) of musicians involved. Legal side of it all is probably quite convoluted anyway. The festival organizer, Karlheinz Klüter, arranged for the music to be professionally recorded. There should have been at least tacit approval of the musicians. Their performance fees probably included payment for recording (or it least in could plausibly be interpreted this way). The tapes were in legal possession of the festival producer, and he had some of the music released on LPs on his (presumably legit) label in the '70s and '80s: https://www.discogs.com/artist/624261 . He died 10 years ago and his son passed the tapes to B.free people (there is an acknowledgement in the booklet). So unauthorized - probably yes, illegal - not necessarily. Whatever, I am glad the music is available, there is some great stuff here. The German company behind BE! label was liquidated a few years back, by the way: https://www.northdata.de/BE!+Record+Productions+GmbH,+Bruchsal/Amtsgericht+Mannheim+HRB+717316 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaba.siegel Posted May 15 Report Share Posted May 15 18 hours ago, Д.Д. said: Whatever, I am glad the music is available, there is some great stuff here. Absolutely true, all above. I guess if the price for other sets would be lower, I'd buy Balver Hohle and Altena sets anwyay. In a larger scope, releasing festivals archives in their entirety is so important music-wise and history-wise, as there are often surprising line-ups, obscure groups or unique festival bands. On the other hand, releasing Alice Coltrane or studio albums by Tomasz Stańko was a straight cash-grab. I think the latter, especially the guy was still living and active, was a kind of tipping point. But switching back to great German jazz... This men is outstanding. His guitar style is such a successful synthesis of 60's jazz (Gabor Szabo!), psychedelic craze, mellowness and soundscape approach. I've even made a topic somewhere, trying to show connections between his music and Pat Metheny (and I still do think it's not a wild guess). "Spectrum" is Kriegel's second solo LP (recorded just after few years spent in nutty Dave Pike Set), it's just so nice fusion of everything that was hip in by 1971, featuring different guitar approach, drums with percussions and fantastic el-piano lines by John Taylor. The album got couple of vinyl releases and modern re-issue in 2003 (CD) and 2017 (CD, LP), so it should be fairly available in shops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.D. Posted May 15 Report Share Posted May 15 19 hours ago, Д.Д. said: I have a couple of these B.free (or BE!, they have various logos on different releases) festival sets as well, still have to listen to them in full. Yes, they are bootlegs alright. There are no liner notes as such - just track listing (often incorrect) and personnel (mostly correct), lots of photos and reproductions of old press clippings (some quite entertaining). No Information about the label to be found anywhere on the release. At the same time, I can't say I have particular qualms about buying these sets because I am fully aware that it would have been impossible to release them (and these are 12-CD sets!) securing authorization of all the (dozens!) of musicians involved. Legal side of it all is probably quite convoluted anyway. The festival organizer, Karlheinz Klüter, arranged for the music to be professionally recorded. There should have been at least tacit approval of the musicians. Their performance fees probably included payment for recording (or it least in could plausibly be interpreted this way). The tapes were in legal possession of the festival producer, and he had some of the music released on LPs on his (presumably legit) label in the '70s and '80s: https://www.discogs.com/artist/624261 . He died 10 years ago and his son passed the tapes to B.free people (there is an acknowledgement in the booklet). So unauthorized - probably yes, illegal - not necessarily. Whatever, I am glad the music is available, there is some great stuff here. The German company behind BE! label was liquidated a few years back, by the way: https://www.northdata.de/BE!+Record+Productions+GmbH,+Bruchsal/Amtsgericht+Mannheim+HRB+717316 Thanks. Useful information. I'd read somewhere on the Internet that the B.free people acquired the festival tapes legitimately, but wasn't sure the info was reliable. The Burg Altena and the second (76-77) Balver Höhle sets have been on my wish list for a long time (and I wouldn't mind hearing the others). Prices have gone up a lot recently, perhaps due to the parent company being liquidated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted May 15 Report Share Posted May 15 43 minutes ago, barnaba.siegel said: Absolutely true, all above. I guess if the price for other sets would be lower, I'd buy Balver Hohle and Altena sets anwyay. In a larger scope, releasing festivals archives in their entirety is so important music-wise and history-wise, as there are often surprising line-ups, obscure groups or unique festival bands. On the other hand, releasing Alice Coltrane or studio albums by Tomasz Stańko was a straight cash-grab. I think the latter, especially the guy was still living and active, was a kind of tipping point. But switching back to great German jazz... This men is outstanding. His guitar style is such a successful synthesis of 60's jazz (Gabor Szabo!), psychedelic craze, mellowness and soundscape approach. I've even made a topic somewhere, trying to show connections between his music and Pat Metheny (and I still do think it's not a wild guess). "Spectrum" is Kriegel's second solo LP (recorded just after few years spent in nutty Dave Pike Set), it's just so nice fusion of everything that was hip in by 1971, featuring different guitar approach, drums with percussions and fantastic el-piano lines by John Taylor. The album got couple of vinyl releases and modern re-issue in 2003 (CD) and 2017 (CD, LP), so it should be fairly available in shops. The only one I have is Inside: The Missing Link, but it's quite good. I have heard varying reports on whether the original JG LP sets (of which I have a few) are in fact authorized by the musicians. I have my doubts. The same goes for the Holy Hill and Born Free vinyl sets. Nevertheless, they're very interesting documents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaba.siegel Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 On 5/15/2024 at 8:31 PM, clifford_thornton said: The only one I have is Inside: The Missing Link, but it's quite good. Great record, maybe a bit "too much of everything", but hey, fantastic cast of German and English "new wave" players, very light shade of jazz-rock, a bit trippy, a bit funky here and there. But I highly recommend his next album - "Lift". New line-up, new approach, even more colorful and diverse, some great compositions and top-notch soloing. This one in now on my Hi-Fi - "Never Let It End" by Albert Mangelsdorff Quartet, one of the many, many great recordings of Albert as a leader. The year is 1970 and oh my, what the heck is going on here? You may think a quartet will deliver some more or less predictable tunes, but not this crew. Listen to the title track, which is simply a great benchmark of incredible aura on this LP. I know this record for years and I'm stunned to this day how modern sound it has. I guess someone could play it and tell it's some record from any contemporary free-jazz label, like Trost, NotTwo or some new group by Paal Nilsen-Love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HutchFan Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, barnaba.siegel said: This one in now on my Hi-Fi - "Never Let It End" by Albert Mangelsdorff Quartet, one of the many, many great recordings of Albert as a leader. Absolutely! A BRILLIANT album! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 To me that has always felt like Mangeldorff's jewel on record. There are also a bunch of live recordings from that band circulating (i.e., not released commercially) that are well worth hearing. Superb! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 Why don't I have that Mangelsdorff, I have a number of others. Needs rectifying by the sounds of things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 7 hours ago, barnaba.siegel said: "Never Let It End" by Albert Mangelsdorff Quartet, one of the many, many great recordings of Albert as a leader. The year is 1970 and oh my, what the heck is going on here? You may think a quartet will deliver some more or less predictable tunes, but not this crew .... This platter also testament for superb bassplayer Günter Lenz .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optatio Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 Gunter Hampel gave me this rare edition from 1999 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Farbey Posted May 25 Report Share Posted May 25 (edited) 20 hours ago, barnaba.siegel said: Great record, maybe a bit "too much of everything", but hey, fantastic cast of German and English "new wave" players, very light shade of jazz-rock, a bit trippy, a bit funky here and there. But I highly recommend his next album - "Lift". New line-up, new approach, even more colorful and diverse, some great compositions and top-notch soloing. This one in now on my Hi-Fi - "Never Let It End" by Albert Mangelsdorff Quartet, one of the many, many great recordings of Albert as a leader. The year is 1970 and oh my, what the heck is going on here? You may think a quartet will deliver some more or less predictable tunes, but not this crew. Listen to the title track, which is simply a great benchmark of incredible aura on this LP. I know this record for years and I'm stunned to this day how modern sound it has. I guess someone could play it and tell it's some record from any contemporary free-jazz label, like Trost, NotTwo or some new group by Paal Nilsen-Love Re: Never Let It End, what a fabulous album. Never heard of it until now, so thanks for that. Just purchased on iTunes for a remarkably reasonable price. I wish MPS would make more of their back catalogue available in physical formats. Edited May 25 by Roger Farbey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 15 hours ago, Roger Farbey said: Re: Never Let It End, what a fabulous album. Never heard of it until now, so thanks for that. Just purchased on iTunes for a remarkably reasonable price. I wish MPS would make more of their back catalogue available in physical formats. it was released round 2008 in those multi set MPS compilations (two 5CD box sets plus live & solo twofers)- I can't believe it's 15 years since I bought these - are they still available BTW? https://www.discogs.com/release/4267753-Albert-Mangelsdorff-Originals-Vol-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 Birds of Underground is good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Farbey Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 6 hours ago, romualdo said: it was released round 2008 in those multi set MPS compilations (two 5CD box sets plus live & solo twofers)- I can't believe it's 15 years since I bought these - are they still available BTW? https://www.discogs.com/release/4267753-Albert-Mangelsdorff-Originals-Vol-1 Only available from outside UK, so around $50+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 10 hours ago, Roger Farbey said: Only available from outside UK, so around $50+ I got one off Discogs about 2 years ago, maybe about $80 iirc. Can’t remember if it came from outside the US — but it might have. There’s also another 3(?)-disc *Live* Mangelsdorf set on MPS — but I haven’t gotten that one yet (might never, unless I see it for a better price). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 20 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said: There’s also another 3(?)-disc *Live* Mangelsdorf set on MPS — but I haven’t gotten that one yet (might never, unless I see it for a better price). It's a 2 CD set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 1 hour ago, romualdo said: It's a 2 CD set Probably right. Might be 3 albums on 2 CD’s then — something like that, iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 8 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said: Probably right. Might be 3 albums on 2 CD’s then — something like that, iirc. It's two live trio releases 1. Trilogue - live Berlin Nov 76 with Pastorius & Mouzon 2. Live In Montreux - July 80 with JF Jenny-Clark & Ronald Shannon Jackson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 4 minutes ago, romualdo said: It's two live trio releases 1. Trilogue - live Berlin Nov 76 with Pastorius & Mouzon 2. Live In Montreux - July 80 with JF Jenny-Clark & Ronald Shannon Jackson Did some googling, and aha! — THIS is actually what I was remembering, which appears to be three solo-trombone albums compiled on 2cd’s. https://www.discogs.com/release/4267729-Albert-Mangelsdorff-Solo And then, on top of that, I’m seeing there’s actually a second (Vol 2) 5-album (5-CD) set of studio recordings also on MPS… https://www.discogs.com/release/4267769-Albert-Mangelsdorff-Originals-Vol-2 All that’s in addition to the first (Vol 1) of studio dates — and the 2-album (2cd) live one you rightly pointed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted May 28 Report Share Posted May 28 5 hours ago, romualdo said: It's two live trio releases 1. Trilogue - live Berlin Nov 76 with Pastorius & Mouzon 2. Live In Montreux - July 80 with JF Jenny-Clark & Ronald Shannon Jackson Both very good .... btw ❤️JF Jenny-Clark❤️ .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbour Posted June 5 Report Share Posted June 5 Some great MPS releases are getting the Japanese mini LP treatment on Belle Antique in July, all but one have never been on cd. Wolfgang Dauner's Et Cetera – Live (1973) Joachim Kühn – Cinemascope (1974) Hans Koller, Wolfgang Dauner, Adelhard Roidinger, Zbigniew Seifert, Janusz Stefanski – Kunstkopfindianer (1974) Jasper Van't Hof's Pork Pie – The Door Is Open (1976) https://merurido-jp.translate.goog/topic.php?srcbnr=75815&_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted June 5 Report Share Posted June 5 6 minutes ago, Harbour said: Some great MPS releases are getting the Japanese mini LP treatment on Belle Antique in July, all but one have never been on cd. Wolfgang Dauner's Et Cetera – Live (1973) Joachim Kühn – Cinemascope (1974) Hans Koller, Wolfgang Dauner, Adelhard Roidinger, Zbigniew Seifert, Janusz Stefanski – Kunstkopfindianer (1974) Jasper Van't Hof's Pork Pie – The Door Is Open (1976) https://merurido-jp.translate.goog/topic.php?srcbnr=75815&_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc Some great examples of superb 70`s Cover Art are in there .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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