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Sonny Rollins - Road Shows, vol. 2

GA Russell

By GA Russell
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Hardbopjazz Collaborator

Hardbopjazz

Posted
Posted

GA,

I have to agree with you. I am a fan of both Rollins and Ornette and have to say that on a first listen, Sonnymoon for Two, their track together, is my least favorite on the CD.

Regardless, of what you think of Ornette, and I hesitate to criticize one of the greatest living improvisors, but I find Rollins's solo before Ornette comes out to be wandering and uninspired, with sparse and aimless playing. However, after Ornette solos, Rollins comes back with much better stuff. I also find it odd that they couldn't have inlcuded a track with Jim Hall and Rollins playing together, as opposed to the Jim Hall feature track which is quite fine, but hey didn't they play together that night?

Overall, still a really good album with many fine performances.

Being at this concert I know why first hand. It took Ornette over 5 minutes to make it out on stage. Everytime you thought the mystery guess was coming out, he didn't. Sonny had to start blowing to keep the audince in the mood.

skeith Newbie

skeith

Posted
Posted (edited)

GA,

I have to agree with you. I am a fan of both Rollins and Ornette and have to say that on a first listen, Sonnymoon for Two, their track together, is my least favorite on the CD.

Regardless, of what you think of Ornette, and I hesitate to criticize one of the greatest living improvisors, but I find Rollins's solo before Ornette comes out to be wandering and uninspired, with sparse and aimless playing. However, after Ornette solos, Rollins comes back with much better stuff. I also find it odd that they couldn't have inlcuded a track with Jim Hall and Rollins playing together, as opposed to the Jim Hall feature track which is quite fine, but hey didn't they play together that night?

Overall, still a really good album with many fine performances.

Being at this concert I know why first hand. It took Ornette over 5 minutes to make it out on stage. Everytime you thought the mystery guess was coming out, he didn't. Sonny had to start blowing to keep the audince in the mood.

Thanks, from the CD you really can't tell, because he says he has been told "someone is in the house who wants to play with me"... around 5 minutes into the tune. It sounds like he wasn't even aware anyone was going to join him. But I trust you guys who witnessed it!!

Edited by skeith
Hardbopjazz Collaborator

Hardbopjazz

Posted
Posted

GA,

I have to agree with you. I am a fan of both Rollins and Ornette and have to say that on a first listen, Sonnymoon for Two, their track together, is my least favorite on the CD.

Regardless, of what you think of Ornette, and I hesitate to criticize one of the greatest living improvisors, but I find Rollins's solo before Ornette comes out to be wandering and uninspired, with sparse and aimless playing. However, after Ornette solos, Rollins comes back with much better stuff. I also find it odd that they couldn't have inlcuded a track with Jim Hall and Rollins playing together, as opposed to the Jim Hall feature track which is quite fine, but hey didn't they play together that night?

Overall, still a really good album with many fine performances.

Being at this concert I know why first hand. It took Ornette over 5 minutes to make it out on stage. Everytime you thought the mystery guess was coming out, he didn't. Sonny had to start blowing to keep the audince in the mood.

Thanks, from the CD you really can't tell, because he says he has been told "someone is in the house who wants to play with me"... around 5 minutes into the tune. It sounds like he wasn't even aware anyone was going to join him. But I trust you guys who witnessed it!!

With these 4 guys alive and well, I would to see them go into the studio and put out a recording. It would be pure bliss. There was some arugement that McBride should have been replaced, but who should that bassist be?

Pete C Newbie

Pete C

Posted
Posted

I thought of Peacock as a natural for a Rollins-Ornette meeting because he comes out of the same milieu as Haden & LaFaro (i.e., post-Red Mitchell L.A. bass playing), and has worked with a number of Rollins' past sidemen, especially DeJohnette & Bley. He certainly would have been a natural for the Cherry-Bley edition of Sonny's band.

JSngry Grand Master

JSngry

Posted
Posted

I'd think that a more "bass"-y bassist would be called for, though...not really sure who's around that plays with that sound and would have had the mileage to have hung in that situation...I keep thinking William Parker, but his time might be a little "taut" for that grouping...tough question, that's for sure.

Pete C Newbie

Pete C

Posted
Posted (edited)

I keep thinking William Parker,

Oh boy do we disagree on this one, but I generally detest Parker's plodding, self-indulgent, antithesis of swing playing. One of the most painful musical experiences was having to sit through his 20-minute solo when I saw Dave Burrell's trio with him & Cyrille. I know some people love Parker's playing. I just don't get it. Seems to me that he's the polar opposite of what both Ornette and Rollins should have (though when it comes to bass players it appears that Rollins has chosen friendship and loyalty over musical sense). I think Greg Cohen was the most perfect acoustic bass player for Ornette since the '60s.

Edited by Pete C
JSngry Grand Master

JSngry

Posted
Posted

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, but I think it all works great in Parker's own orb, but that's why I also qualified it as an uncertain choice for Rollins..."swing" is relative to who and what are being swung, ya' know?

mjazzg Grand Master

mjazzg

Posted
Posted

are we discounting Charlie Haden for any reason? gets my vote

Charlie Haden seems to now fall under the Americana and Tin Pan Alley umbrellas. No longer the rebel he once was.

I hear what you're saying but he sounded pretty 'rebellious' with the Liberation Music Orch a year or two ago. Sure he'd step up with that suggested frontine.

JETman Newbie

JETman

Posted
Posted

are we discounting Charlie Haden for any reason? gets my vote

Charlie Haden seems to now fall under the Americana and Tin Pan Alley umbrellas. No longer the rebel he once was.

I hear what you're saying but he sounded pretty 'rebellious' with the Liberation Music Orch a year or two ago. Sure he'd step up with that suggested frontine.

I'm not convinced. I read about a recent club appearance (last couple of years or so) where he was but a shell of his former self.

mjazzg Grand Master

mjazzg

Posted
Posted

are we discounting Charlie Haden for any reason? gets my vote

Charlie Haden seems to now fall under the Americana and Tin Pan Alley umbrellas. No longer the rebel he once was.

I hear what you're saying but he sounded pretty 'rebellious' with the Liberation Music Orch a year or two ago. Sure he'd step up with that suggested frontine.

I'm not convinced. I read about a recent club appearance (last couple of years or so) where he was but a shell of his former self.

that's a shame. That he's played so long with his hearing impairment is testament to his dedication if nothing else.

ep1str0phy Explorer

ep1str0phy

Posted
Posted

I've seen Haden a couple of times in the last few years and, at least in the company of Ornette or similar musicians who can energize him, his can still bring some of his old edge. I have heard that he was somewhat unhappy with the last LMO's Grammy loss (since said win would have opened up any number of opportunities--maybe just because he's Charlie Haden, though, since I know other Grammy winners for whom the accolade is itself not very useful)... maybe he's just a little tired of/angry at it all? That's all totally speculative, but hustling is hard at any age, let alone when you can (or even should) just be soaking it all up.

People get turned off to Charnett pretty often, but he can bring a ton of energy to the proceedings on the right night. (I'm not of the mind, for example, that he's outclassed on Ask the Ages--I think he balances out Elvin's latter-day conciseness and regality very well.) There's also Buster Williams, since he subbed for Haden in some of Ornette's 70's bands. And I think someone like Trevor Dunn or Greg Cohen would be a fantastic choice, assuming you're looking for a mix of jazz classicism and new music edginess.

Pete C Newbie

Pete C

Posted
Posted

Charnett is great when he's not grandstanding or playing an acoustic bass through a fuzz box. I've liked him when I've seen him with Ornette a couple of times, and he's great on Sonny Simmons' Ancient Ritual.

  • 2 weeks later...

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