American Music label

[jazzbo]

Lots of messy stuff in both genres.

I don't disagree.

Messy bop is the worst.

[Big Beat Steve]

Seems like Moms is trying to stir things up again. And he knows if the bait's out there, someone will go for it.

How so? Certainly not by expressing enthusiasm for American Music and seeking opinions on the catalog. Nor would Moms be the first person to distance themselves from certain regions of free jazz, in no uncertain terms.

In any case, a stirred pot makes for a good brew.

:tup on all counts.

At any rate, this thread has stirred my curiosity for the American Music catalog too (though "oldtime" jazz usually is not the top of my favorite styles of jazz and is taken in relatively moderate doses).

As for the Climax label, I think the topic has been discussed before, but how come there are other Climax 78s (probably European, but ONLY European??) out there that also duplicate the Blue Note blue 6 white label layout but include decidely NON-oldtime recordings (such as Wynton Kelly) that have also (originally) been issued on BN? And they do not look or sound like cheapo bootlegs at all. Anybody got concrete info on the background on THAT offspring of the 'Climax label?

As for "messy bop", care to name a couple of examples to this bop enthusiast (who can take in a LOT of bop - i.e. BEBOP late 40s style - in all its varieties?

[king ubu]

Well, for starter's, here's Uma with a messy bob:

I've got less than a dozen AMCDs so far, the Baby Dodds, a pair of Bunk Johnson's (1944 and 1944/45 - the second 1944 just got lost in a large package sent to me, alas), some Lewis (NO Stompers Vols. 1 & 2, w/Kid Shots, Trios and Bands), as well as one each by Kid Thomas and the Eureka Brass Band from 1951.

Great to see a thread about this label - will gladly pick up on some recommendations!

Btw, what's the relation (if any) with JazzOlogy and Progressive?

[king ubu]

Oh, and what with GHB? Is that related as well? I've got Papa Celestin's "Marie La Veau" from that label - very good!

I see they're all covered on the Jazzology website... also Circle, Black Swan, Solo Art, Audiophile and Southland (all of these unknown to me, except for Circle).

What's the story there, if you don't mind me asking in this thread?

[kh1958]

The website has the history of the labels here:

http://www.jazzology.com/jazzbeat.php?id=73

[jeffcrom]

Jazzology was George Buck's first label, started in 1949 to issue a session by Tony Parenti (with Wild Bill Davidson and Art Hodes, among others). That's still Jazzology 1 in the catalog. The label was not very active until the early 1960's, when it expanded rapidly. The original idea was that Jazzology would issue Chicago-style dixieland and GHB would issue traditional New Orleans music. At some point Buck began buying other labels - Jazz Crusade, Progressive, Circle (Rudi Blesh's label, not the German one), MONO, Icon, Solo Art, Audiophile, American Music, Southland - and now they own all those amazing Paramount recordings from the 1920s. So Jazzology's holdings are huge! These days most of their New Orleans historical reissues come out on American Music, with newer New Orleans recordings coming out on GHB, although some appear on Jazzology. They use Southland for blues, Circle for big bands, Audiophile for vocalists, Solo Art for piano solo recordings, Black Swan for the Paramount material, Progressive for "modern music" (Buck won't call it jazz), and Condon-style stuff still comes out on Jazzology.

There's some amazing stuff (along with plenty of forgettable music) in their catalog.

[king ubu]

Thanks guys! I checked for some history on the site but didn't find the page linked above... so AM is just one piece of the whole thing... didn't want to derail this thread, but I guess some GHB releases would fit in here as well, and that "Marie La Veau" is easily recommended in my book!

[MomsMobley]

Let me add Emile Barnes' Harmony Four (AMCD 102) to the Recommended list.

This is actually contains three different sessions

* Emile Barnes recorded in July '46 w/ De De & Billie Pierce et al-- four tracks

* Israel Gorman's Band in July/August '54-- with Charlie Love, Emma Barrett, Joe Avery et al-- ten tracks

* De De Pierce's Band in May '53-- two tracks

The Jazzology website while 'authoritative' does the label a little disservice in that you can't see the mostly excellent cover photos, nor can I seem to get just a straight up discography.

CD Imports has it (ignore the idiotic non-inforative Allmusic 'review')--

http://www.importcds.com/Music/401227

Tho' once I take a couple of my goats to market and I'll place an order with Jazzology direct.

***

AMERICAN MUSIC SHOWDOWN

Kid Thomas or Kid Sheik: Who Will Win?

also, Jeffcrom, do you have any of the American Music DVDs?

[Leeway]

"it's a shame I spent my youth tracking down BYG, ESP, FMP splatter (little of which interests me now) when the REAL heat was right here. I'll grant it's possible to dig Bunk and Bill Dixon but I'll take the BJ 99 times out of 90."

"Unfortunates raised in era (error) of rock hegemony are pushed toward "free" crap first ("that 'fire music' is 'spiritual,' man"), little of which stands as either sound or composition (AACM sentimental gentlemen most notable/sustained exception). YOU go listen Alan Silva or Peter Brotzmann (or Jason Moran or Joe Lovano), i'd rather slop the stable barefoot. "

This unfortunate will be glad to take those hated BYGs, ESPs and FMPs off your hands now that you found the true light (or heat). No use having them cluttering up the back of the barn.

[jeffcrom]

also, Jeffcrom, do you have any of the American Music DVDs?

I've got New Orleans Piano Players, which is interesting enough, but not essential, in my opinion, unless you're a Joe Robichaux completist. Included is the audio of the only surviving test pressing from Robichaux's 1936 unreleased Decca session.

But the American Music video which really slays me is Sing On: A Film of New Orleans Brass Bands. This is a VHS tape which had not been reissued on CD the last time I checked. Much of it consists of silent clips with appropriate brass band recordings dubbed in, but it does have the newsreel clip from 1929 on which you can hear 30 seconds of a brass band playing "Shake That Thing" with John Casimir squealing away on top. And there's 15 minutes from 1962 of the Eureka BB in a New Orleans TV studio. They play three numbers which are on the same level as the Atlantic album of the same period.

I'm a little embarrassed that I don't have the Baby Dodds video, which I think is also only on VHS.

Edited June 5, 2011 by jeffcrom

[JSngry]

I'm a little embarrassed that I don't have the Baby Dodds video, which I think is also only on VHS.

What are the contents thereof?

[jeffcrom]

I'm a little embarrassed that I don't have the Baby Dodds video, which I think is also only on VHS.

What are the contents thereof?

I'm not totally sure, but I know that back in the 1950's Bill Russell prepared, but never released, an 8mm silent film of Dodds demonstrating some of his percussion techniques - there was to be a 10" LP that you were supposed to be able to sync to provide the soundtrack. I believe that most of the Dodds video is this film, but I don't remember all the details. This has been on my list to pick up for years - I'm not sure why I haven't done so yet.

Edited June 5, 2011 by jeffcrom

[JSngry]

I'd like to find that one myself!

[jeffcrom]

I'd like to find that one myself!

It's available from Jazzology, but of course, there are absolutely no details on the website. It doesn't even say what format it's in, but I'm pretty sure it's only on VHS. You can always call Jazzology in New Orleans - last time I called, George Buck answered the phone himself.

[jazztrain]

There's a double cd (AMCD-125/126) that features New Orleans string band music, including the complete recordings by the 6 and 7/8 String Band (some of which were originally on the Circle label). Very charming and highly recommended.

[IanFenton]

Nice thread. Thanks to all for the recommendations: have to check this stuff out.

[MomsMobley]

one of the greatest 'party records' of all-time, in every sense of the term--

GEORGE LEWIS BAND "At Herbert Otto's Party," from 1949. even if you're not a "viper," the sex and polyphony is astounding.

http://www.amazon.com/Herbert-Ottos-Party-George-Lewis/dp/B000001YIM

http://www.jazzology.com/item_detail.php?id=AMCD-74

Lawrence Marrero (bjo) >>>> Eugene Chadbourne + Derek Bailey combined

blows "Mama Too Tight" back to Goddard commons too

[papsrus]

Just ordered Kid Thomas 'Very First Recordings.' Looking forward to it.

Did a label search for 'American Music' at amazon using the advanced search function and they've got a decent number of titles, probably 5 or 6 pages worth.

After burrowing through the shelves here I found a couple of other AM titles that I'd overlooked. Alto player Captain John Handy is an interesting guy, someone Allen had mentioned a while back. His American Music release -- also titled "The Very First Recordings" -- is pretty ragged, quite honestly. The trumpet player on the bulk of these recordings from 1960, Jimmy Clayton, isn't really up to the task. But Handy's unique R&B-tinged alto is worth hearing in these settings.

GHB or Jazz Crusade are better places to start with Handy, though.

Edited June 6, 2011 by papsrus

[Neal Pomea]

Bunk Johnson King of the Blues, Wooden Joe Nicholas, and Eureka Jazz Band New Orleans Funeral and Parade are now shipped! Can't wait to hear these and make my next order of stuff from this label!

Will be returning to the thread of brass bands for more recommendations.

[papsrus]

Another AM title (pale blue label) with the aforementioned John Handy on board (playing clarinet) is "Punch Miller 1960"

Most of his playing is in support of the ensemble, and kind of in the background, but there are moments where he steps out front and howls the blues, as on "Tin Roof Blues." But this is Punch's gig.

[papsrus]

OK last one tonight. Listening now to Percy Humphrey & His Sympathy Five (blue label). It also includes four previously issued tracks by Humphrey with Paul Barbarin's Band and three tracks at the end by Blind Gilbert's Trio (with Raymond Burke). All of it recorded in the early 50s.

Burke also appears on Sympathy Five stuff. Really tight. Anyone else know this one? Jeff?

I'm sure none of these I've been listening to tonight qualify as "essential," but all have their own distinct flavor and are a blast to listen to.

[jeffcrom]

OK last one tonight. Listening now to Percy Humphrey & His Sympathy Five (blue label). It also includes four previously issued tracks by Humphrey with Paul Barbarin's Band and three tracks at the end by Blind Gilbert's Trio (with Raymond Burke). All of it recorded in the early 50s.

Burke also appears on Sympathy Five stuff. Really tight. Anyone else know this one? Jeff?

I'm sure none of these I've been listening to tonight qualify as "essential," but all have their own distinct flavor and are a blast to listen to.

Yeah, being a New Orleans music obsessive fan, I've got all the AM CDs that have been mentioned in this thread except for the John Casimir - thanks for making me look bad with that one. I have a special fondness for both Percy Humphrey and his older brother Willie. Percy had a unique, clear lead trumpet style that was driving and exciting while being totally pre-Armstrong in terms of rhythmic conception. And Willie Humphrey, at his best, was one of the most imaginative improvisers within the New Orleans tradition. He would sometimes run the entire range of the clarinet in a measure or two, and he was a master of macro-syncopation - his variety of phrase lengths was the equal of Charlie Parker.

I think that you're right on the money in your assessment of the John Handy First Recordings CD. Capt. John always sounded good, but Kid Clayton wasn't such a much.

[papsrus]

AMCD-10; Kid Thomas Valentine - The First Recordings. I love Kid Thomas' crude (I'll use that word here), pre-Armstrong trumpet style, which never changed or developed - he sounded the same in the 1980's. Emile Barnes is on this one, and I like it better than Barnes' yellow-label AM CD.

Just peeled this one from the wrapper and giving it a listen now. When you describe Kid Thomas' playing as pre-Armstrong are you thinking in terms of his rhythmic approach? The music here overall is primitive (in the best sense of the term).

Anyways, loving this one. It jumps. And you're right about Barnes here. Expressive player.

[jeffcrom]

When you describe Kid Thomas' playing as pre-Armstrong are you thinking in terms of his rhythmic approach? The music here overall is primitive (in the best sense of the term).

Yes, I mean rhythm, but also just about any other aspect of Thomas' playing you can name. Crude tone, not interested in solo playing, harmonically unsophisticated, etc. (And I use all of these terms as descriptions, not criticisms.) Kid Thomas sounds completely untouched by Armstrong, and that's pretty unusual for trumpet player who didn't record until 1952.

[Christiern]

Digging into the recesses of my blog....